juliaoceania
Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
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quote:
And I will continue to do so, since I believe one is as unlikely as the other. It's like saying that eating a meal can make me feel full for days or weeks afterwards. I would consider it a few hours, max - maybe the rest of the day if it was a really big meal. Once, I even ate a big meal before going to bed, and then I didn't want breakfast. But if I was still full 2 days later, then I would not still be thinking that it must have been that one meal.
I know you will continue to assert that, dear, even if the physical evidence that a release of strong neurochemicals into your bloodstream can affect you for days is WELL DOCUMENTED. You are allowed your own opinions, OFF, you are not allowed your own facts.
Here is just ONE neurochemical that can be dumped into your system causing very bad symptons for DAYS.
The adrenal glands are responsible for regulating levels of cortisol and adrenaline in the body and managing the body's resources under stressful conditions. The adrenal glands may increase the heart rate, sharpen the senses and slow down digestion as part of the stress response, but too much stress can tax the body and make adrenal functioning inefficient. This results in a condition known as adrenal gland overload or adrenal fatigue.
Common symptoms of adrenal gland overload include difficulty sleeping, difficulty concentrating, poor memory, chronic fatigue, lack of energy in the morning, unexplained pain, especially in the upper back, decreased sex drive, depression, nausea, constipation and diarrhea, unexplained hair loss, food cravings, low blood pressure, low blood sugar and weight gain around the waist.
Read more: Adrenal Gland Overload Symptoms | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5049618_adrenal-gland-overload-symptoms.html#ixzz1PvQvmahN
now we move on to Dopamine depletion
http://www.reuniting.info/science/articles/acute_dopamine_depletion_causes_psychological_distress
Dopamine (or dopamine-receptor level) plummets after orgasm. Here scientists artificially induced a dopamine drop in a healthy, extroverted, very well functioning 21-year-old medical student, without even minor psychological difficulties or psychiatric disorders in his family.
He experienced extreme symptoms, including obsessive-compulsive symptoms, thought disorders, anxiety and depressive symptoms, and fatigue - not unlike those we have observed in milder forms in post-orgasmic lovers. After 28 hours, he felt ashamed, frightened, anxious, and depressed. He was afraid that the situation would continue. Such feelings would easily be projected onto a partner, creating emotional separation in an intimate relationship.
quote:
This is absolute fabrication on your part. My original post states that sub-drop used to be something that was dealt with by a blanket, a drink or a cuddle after playing. I have never expressed any doubt that this is necessary or desirable. My reference to people being attention seeking or melodramatic was a response to other quotes I had read about sub-drop, where the submissive would run away from home the day after playing, and have to be chased down and brought back by her dominants *every single time*. As far as I'm concerned, this is melodrama, and it is attention seeking, and I personally would find it very tiresome. I am aware that I have not quoted where I was reading this from, but that is because I don't want to quote others posts without their permission.
I have fabricated nothing... I did not claim you did have problems with people who required it, I said it "seemed", and I got that feeling from this passage. Also as you admitted, you also talked about another person's reaction to play, judging her needs.
quote:
If people are melodramatic or attention seeking after play, then that is most likely because they are unsuited for s&m. There's nothing that says everyone can do what we do, or that everyone will react positively to it, or even just be made happy by it. Some people will be made miserable, some people will go through emotional hell. Of course, that is their choice, and the choice of their partners to tolerate this response. But I do not believe that this is a normal, healthy or expected part of s&m, and I certainly do not think it can be explained by 'sub drop'.
quote:
I have experienced severe sub drop. I have been shaking, couldn't stand up, white as a sheet, needing a drink, totally emotional and just generally wiped out after a scene. What I haven't been is suicidal, paranoid, jealous, self-harming or depressed for days or weeks after playing. I believe that seriously worrying mental states and reactions to s&m are being smuggled in under the description of 'sub-drop' and it is this cover-up that I am rejecting. S&M does not and should not cause people to want to take their own lives, or self harm. This is not healthy behaviour, and I reject any assumption, stated or otherwise, that this is a typical or acceptable reaction to s&m. Trying to claim otherwise is just leaving us wide open to the familiar charge that BDSM is mental illness. It isn't, and it doesn't cause mental illness either, temporary or otherwise.
You know, I say you were right about people who regularly experienced suicidal ideation, and jealousy being exagerated by play (people do not feel jealous unless they believe they have reasons) but what you are saying about the rest, and comparing someone who feels down for a few days or feels sore and tired for a few days...that in my experience is completely normal with subdrop. If my ass still hurts really bad, and I am feeling sore and tired, its fucking normal human response....geesh.
The problem, from my view, is that you lump a large range of reactions together as if they are all the same thing. That is just idiotic and makes your opinion easy to shred.
Define depressed
Define fatigued
Define feeling slightly out of sorts
Define feeling grouchy
Define having your already raw feelings being exposed (overreacting to jealousy)
And then you say if you experience these feelings for a "few days" you are the same as if you had these feelings for a few weeks.... did you know that even amongst mental health screening tests they say feeling depressed for a few days is FUCKING NORMAL. It can be brought on by PHYSICAL STRESS...
Basically, OFF, I can tell you have never had any psych classes, you did not research your "opinion" before posting it for all sundry.
As for the part of your post about "responsibility"... I think most people know what I meant, which is that some of us CHOOSE to engage in relationships where we give away our decisions to another... if someone wants to suffer from severe drop for their dominant, why the fuck should it matter to you? It is between the two of them. My point is this, it is not all about the sub being a drama queen wanting to fly and having her dom deal with her selfish needs.... he might require it of her, and you are lumping people together (yet again )
quote:
If you don't care about the safety and reputation of the scene then that's up to you. I consider it oppressive that BDSM is considered a mental illness and I do all I can to combat that stereotype. I also am very vocal in telling new submissives that BDSM is supposed to be enjoyable, and satisfying. This is their kink, and if they are not enjoying exploring it, then they have the right to look elsewhere, or scrap it altogether. Claiming that it is natural for s&m to make you feel suicidal, self harming, paranoid, jealous just plays into the hands of abusive Doms who can then claim 'it's supposed to make you feel like that'. I am arguing that it is most definitely not supposed to make you feel like that.
I don't care about the scene. I am not a part of the scene. And you know what, if you are using the scene as a way of interjecting yourself in other people's lives, you have issues, honey
_____________________________
Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard
Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt
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RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? - 
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