RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:21:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gull


“often informally called seagulls”



you are galled by gulls?  gosh.




LillyBoPeep -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:24:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Wouldn't I be the asshole, then?
you're one now, i don't fucking hate men, but i am starting to hate the fucking women who take it as some sort of challenge to prove to me that i do. fuck off ok?

i have stated repeatedly that i am not a man hater you insist i am, therefore you are denser than a granite block, so whatever you might have to say is of no fucking interets to me.

i'm not in some sort of denial, piss off. come back when you grow a fucking brain cell or two.



the sad thing, Hannah, is that i don't believe you're a manhater, i believe that other people are using your post as justification for their own opinions. you're the poster child who will make all their negative opinions suddenly facts.




LaTigresse -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:24:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

So you support the trash news that takes bits and pieces of statements of the famous and politicians twists them, and uses them to create support for their own agenda?

Because that is in essence, the same thing.


No I don't, because no it isn't.


You see things your way and I will see things my way.

If I were to say........ohhhhhh......thinking of an example....."All wealthy, over privileged frat boys are evil monsters that should be castrated!!!!!!!" I would expect to be, well, verbally castrated, for it!

BUT........if a 22 year old college girl, who was lured by her frat boy, boy friend to a party where she was drugged, raped and beated by all his wealthy, over privileged, frat boy friends, said exactly the same thing, I would expect that she would be given just a wee bit of slack for having the feelings she has and saying what she said.

And THAT, is the mindset I've taken when reading Hannah's words. A young woman that because of whatever her back ground is, lead her into a life that she was exposed the the shit dregs of humanity doesn't KNOW because she's never experienced the world through my eyes to believe in her gut that all men are not like those shit dregs. In her eye, through HER life experience, they are. I can accept her vitrol based upon her life experience, empathize with the few examples of shit dregs I have seen, then with that understanding and empathy, help her see that the shit dregs are a minority.

I fully believe that she posted with some knowledge she would get the nasty snark. I am pretty sure her offense has become her, very successful life defense. She expects people to shit on her so she tosses shit at them first. Then, when they react by tossing shit back, it only affirms what she has grown to expect. Many people on this thread have only affirmed what she has been taught through her life experiences.

It's no different that the whiners we see that create threads to whine, then toss a fit when they don't get the sympathy they have been taught to expect in return. The only difference is, that type of game is easier for a lot of people to swallow. When you do not give them their expected sympathy for their sad story, you are seen as the evil monster, just because you didn't play into their game.

Hannah has just learned to take a different route. Offend and run them off.

Neither method is productive to their growth but it's what has been successful for them, and it works.

Just because Hannah tosses vitriol out there to get people to react and prove her right, doesn't mean I have to do the dance. I WANT to prove her wrong but I cannot do it by attacking her stance. Not when I am some faceless putz behind a computer. And not when nearly every life experience she has had tells her the exact opposite of what this faceless putz is telling her.

What I can do is attempt to look at the world through her eyes, empathize. Not sympathize, very different animal. But understand WHY she feels the way she does and acknowledge that yes, there ARE a lot of horrible human beings in this world. But, as my words have CONSISTENTLY said, there are also A LOT of wonderful human beings in this world. The reality is that there are many people in this world that for whatever reason, have spent the bulk of their lives with the dregs, beginning at birth. A mindset with that kind of imprinting does not change over night, in a week, month, sometimes not in years.

I give huge kudos to Hannah for making the attempt, taking personal responsibility for trying to prove to herself that her life experiences are NOT THE NORM. She is trying to prove to herself that there are good people in this world including many many of the male gender.

So all y'all can call me an evil man hating cunt for all I care. I know my intent and I know how I feel, inside ME.




RedMagic1 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:29:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Didn't the op say, "i have developed these powerful prejudices because of a ton of shitty real life experiences, but the quality of the men on this message board is completely shocking me"? Those aren't the words of someone static. They are the words of someone in intellectual and emotional motion.


That's one theory, yes.

However, I do believe Occam's Razor applies here, as is so often the case.


I am using occam's razor. I think this is what LaT and I see that many posters do not. for the record, I think Hannah Lynn's posting style is crappy, and is geared more to get things off her chest, rather than helping the person with the problem. if she typed the exact same things, and then edited out all the f words, her communication level would go up significantly. if you yell at people, they stop listening to you.




SexyBossyBBW -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:31:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
A certain percentage of a post being "reasonable" or informative doesn't allow a person to then tack on an unpleasant, racist, sexist or just plain ignorant statement in there somewhere and expect everyone else to just swallow it whole.


quoted for fucking truth.
[sm=yourock.gif] If I were bi, or gay, I'd say "me love long time." M




RapierFugue -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:33:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

If I were to say........ohhhhhh......thinking of an example....."All wealthy, over privileged frat boys are evil monsters that should be castrated!!!!!!!" I would expect to be, well, verbally castrated, for it!

BUT........if a 22 year old college girl, who was lured by her frat boy, boy friend to a party where she was drugged, raped and beated by all his wealthy, over privileged, frat boy friends, said exactly the same thing, I would expect that she would be given just a wee bit of slack for having the feelings she has and saying what she said.


Ah ok, got you now ... it’s acceptable to be abusive, incorrect and bigoted so long as you've got an excuse, no matter how weak.




HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:33:38 AM)

quote:

I must admit, that's a serious sticking point for me, too. Wherever that view's been expressed on this thread, and whoever has expressed it, I've just thought, 'Sorry, that view just isn't respectable'.
peon i'm sorry, but too fucking bad. the men who paid me were somebody's fucking husbands, sons, and fathers, and they sure as fuck did lie to their women about how they felt about them. they weren't yours, fine fuck it, they were somebody's and they resented the fuck out of the women in their lives.

the average client of mine was white, middle class, in his late 30s early 40s, married with kids. and almost all of them wanted their wives gone and their daughters in bed.

i don't give a fuck how much my reality fucks with your fantasy.




RapierFugue -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:35:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I am using occam's razor.


No, you are not. The simplest explanation for someone being abusive and bigoted is that they are an abusive bigot.

See? Easy when you know how ;)




Daddysredhead -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:39:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Wouldn't I be the asshole, then?
you're one now, i don't fucking hate men, but i am starting to hate the fucking women who take it as some sort of challenge to prove to me that i do. fuck off ok?

i have stated repeatedly that i am not a man hater you insist i am, therefore you are denser than a granite block, so whatever you might have to say is of no fucking interets to me.

i'm not in some sort of denial, piss off. come back when you grow a fucking brain cell or two.



*shakes head*

You have made some really thought-provoking points along the way, and with things like this, they get overshadowed.




RedMagic1 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:40:14 AM)

The simplest explanation for someone sharing so many intimate "shameful" details is that she wants to be heard.

And the simplest explanation for people who judge instead of hear is that they are deaf.




RapierFugue -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:42:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

And the simplest explanation for people who judge instead of hear is that they are deaf.


That reminds me ... I'm out of fortune cookies.

Cheers :)




angelikaJ -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:42:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

And see, I find "conclusions" almost irrelevant. What matters to me, especially with this particular OP, is developmental process.


Heather has found this to be a healing place and has put most of us, men and women in the good group. I think that does say a lot about us, her... and potential for future.

My comments (which are admittedly all over the place) are just snippets of thought that are full of all sorts of things: I do envy Heather's way of communicating without the filters I have and to express things that were I to feel, would not dare allow myself to express... especially here, in public, knowing what the probable repurcussions would be.
I feel sorrow for whatever circumstance brought her to the place where she was first young and hungry and then to the profession where she experienced some of humanities worst. I wish I understood that place better... and in my posts I have tried to figure it out... and I can't because I was never in her shoes; and I have gratitude for that and compassion for her.

What Lilly said about how this thread would not be tolerated if this was woman bashing is true... and I understand how similar kaliko's analogy seems... and at first I found them to be analogous... but in context I don't think they are the same thing at all.

However, this isn't a thread about prostitution, or lying, cheating men.
And it isn't a thread about man-bashing... although our reactions turned it into one.

I think it was (perhaps not-so-simply) an explaination and ultimately a statement about hope.




SexyBossyBBW -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:50:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
I think it was simply an explaination and ultimately a statement about hope.
I thought hopelessness. Men are as they are, and our interactions with them (as women), are completely random, and cannot be helped by our conscious or unconscious choices. M




LillyBoPeep -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:50:58 AM)

they are the same thing, actually.
a lot of men really do get shafted in divorce court. a lot of them really do run into some really bad women who take them for all they're worth, tell them they love them, and then do horrible things to them.
women aren't the only ones who have bad experiences.
if a man were to make a thread called "chicks suck, but i'm not a woman-hating fag" and then rambled off about how he met one bad woman after another, what would the women on this forum do?
it wouldn't be allowed, there wouldn't be any "you're so right!" rallying like there's been here.

and there are quite a few people of various ethnic groups who do really bad things almost exclusively. there are people who've been robbed, raped, shot, assaulted, anything else by members of different ethnic groups. they grew up in bad neighborhoods with particular people and saw all the absolute worst of those people. but it still isn't acceptable to say "only 1 in 50 people of that ethnic group are worth your time." =p

they ARE the same thing.

for whatever reason, her life took her down the road it did. she met a lot of shitty people along the way, but i don't care what anyone says, it is never okay to say "the majority of this particular type of person is shit. oh but i'm still really tolerant because i'll still talk to them." sorry, that just doesn't make sense to me.

i can relate to the emotions or the life stories that make conclusions like that possible, but i can't relate to the conclusions themselves.




LaTigresse -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 8:53:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The simplest explanation for someone sharing so many intimate "shameful" details is that she wants to be heard.

And the simplest explanation for people who judge instead of hear is that they are deaf.


Agreed.




LaTigresse -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 9:07:40 AM)

Which is exactly why I said what I did about people focusing on the negative and twisting it around for their own personal agenda.

It's been done to nearly every post I've made on this thread and Hannah's also. I don't really give a fuck about mine but because of what I see in Hannah and Heather, I do for them.




HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 9:11:13 AM)

quote:

the sad thing, Hannah, is that i don't believe you're a manhater, i believe that other people are using your post as justification for their own opinions. you're the poster child who will make all their negative opinions suddenly facts.
meh, probably. and thanks for taking me at my word.

hannah lynn




LillyBoPeep -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 9:14:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

the sad thing, Hannah, is that i don't believe you're a manhater, i believe that other people are using your post as justification for their own opinions. you're the poster child who will make all their negative opinions suddenly facts.
meh, probably. and thanks for taking me at my word.

hannah lynn



no worries; i might disagree with you from here to timbuktu, but i don't think you're bad, and i don't think you're the reason the thread's gone where it has.





Daddysredhead -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 9:15:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

the sad thing, Hannah, is that i don't believe you're a manhater, i believe that other people are using your post as justification for their own opinions. you're the poster child who will make all their negative opinions suddenly facts.
meh, probably. and thanks for taking me at my word.

hannah lynn



no worries; i might disagree with you from here to timbuktu, but i don't think you're bad, and i don't think you're the reason the thread's gone where it has.


Agreed.




HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/15/2011 9:16:38 AM)

quote:

trying to prove to herself that her life experiences are NOT THE NORM. She is trying to prove to herself that there are good people in this world including many many of the male gender.
you get it. they don't. screw them, they're just proving the theory i want to disprove. its what i expected.

hannah lynn




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