RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke

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LillyBoPeep -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 9:56:02 AM)
well that doesn't mean anything either, considering that a lot of men in jail are in there for non violent offenses (it's actually very close to 50/50 split, last time i checked), and women often get away with things because the juries in their trials operate on a wrong impression of her BECAUSE she's female. add to that, women's crimes don't tend to be the blockbuster movies that men's crimes often are, so they just flat out get away with more. these surveys, like misread statistics, really don't tell you anything about anyone in general, except for those people who took the surveys. do you know who the sample population of the survey was? do you know any of their demographic information or past criminal records? what if the survey was conducted at Leavenworth prison? =p frankly, you don't know the numbers either, other than what a survey tells you. (i did some googling and found a study with a similar conclusion that was done in South Africa (it's the only one i'm finding with that conclusion) -- there are a lot of bizarre cultural things that probably impacted that conclusion. it's easy to try to extrapolate some big "truth of the world" from that, but if you don't understand how the survey was done, the cultural ideas behind the answers, then you don't understand what motivated any of it. there's also another survey, since these things are supposedly such beacons of truth that says 50% of women blame the victims of rape for their rapes. women aren't the pious little school girls everyone's so quick to believe they are.)

LaTigresse -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 9:58:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep so we're left with all these surveys that tell us how flat out horrible and bad guys would be if they could get away with it, and nothing similar telling us something about women. that's how you end up with an unbalanced view of people in general. women are just as bad, commit crimes, lie, hurt people, beat people up, kill people. 1 in 3 women is probably very likely to hurt you, too. to me, i see 1 in 3 men is likely to hurt me, but 2 of 3 aren't, so i'll set my sights on those 2 and be wary enough to figure out (hopefully) who that third one is. this thread is beginning to take on the "men are predators, scary!" rally vibe again. honestly, it seems like some people are more determined to be negative about men than Hannah is! which boggles my mind... I understand what you are saying but yanno.........I am not going to pretty up the truth as I see it and experience it just to make sure I avoid shining a bad light on what I see as bad people just in case I am not shining the best light on the wonderful people at the same time. If this was a thread about wonderful and good, I would be posting about wonderful and good. As it is, I've not left them out as a balance to the negative. And, as I said before, I feel that any mention of posts they feel is negative, has for whatever reason, ignored the same poster's positive mention also. Only a focus on the negative and treating the thing like a witch hunt. Also, if a thread was about all the wonderful and good, and someone created a post that had any mention of negative, I am quite certain someone would trash talk them for being a debbydowner because the thread was supposed to be all sweetness and light. In my world there is evil and sweetness and light. I cannot comprehend a lengthy discussion about real life that didn't include a balanced discussion of the good and bad. Many have discussed the good in this thread as well as the bad. Many have only focused on one, and been upset that they feel there is some sort of evil plot or something to paint all with the same brush.....continuing to ignore the mixed palette that has seriously been presented. Trying to fabricate a witch hunt out of posts, either in discussion of random human beings, or in one another because of posting style is rather silly. I mentioned one experience within moments, in my life, that I explained a person gave off creepy vibes. I didn't toss him out on his keister or tell him he was a creep. I would, if having met him in a social setting or such that I would be vulnerable, be watchful of him. I would also not want any female I cared about, in a vulnerable position with him. If it makes people feel better, I can toss in a few stories about female customers I've experienced, not to mention a woman that works in the same building......, that are less than stellar human beings also. But why, the whole thread was created on the premise of there being predatory horrible men and how one person is doing her level best to stop seeing ALL men in the light she learned to shine on all, based upon the sick fucks she had spent a large part of her life dealing with. As for many women being bad.......oh hell yes they are. However...there is an avenue of 'bad' that men seem to have cornered a large bulk of the market on. Our criminal justice system's numbers don't lie. Violent and predatory crimes again women are largely committed by men. That isn't me spouting off shit based on personal experience, that is just fact. No personal bias, I sincerely wish it was. I sincerely wish all the stories of abused women and children that I've known, read about, seen in the news.......didn't have to suffer to create those facts. I would sincerely love it to death if those facts did not exist. But they do. And the primary perpetrator is men. But I am also agreeing in that........those fact do not make all, or most, men evil. Just some, really bad apples that cause a negative light to spill over. Which understandably is upsetting.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:06:06 AM)
sure that stuff IS fact, and nowhere have i said that it isn't. like everyone else, i mentioned my own bad experiences and my opnion of the world; but i'm still motivated by assumptions about people and why they would vehemently disagree with the post in the first place (that they're fooling themselves, or that they're men and are avoiding it because they don't bother themselves with "women's issues"), or this attitude that's permeating this thread that men are something to generally be scared of. or the attitude that you can say very hateful things just because you've had bad experiences, and people are supposed to accept that. AND a double standard which i've seen at work here, which tells me that a similar thread written by a man about women would not survive here, and he'd be attacked and ripped to shreds. like i said, i'm realistic. there are bad people and there are yucky people. this is a terribly unbalanced thread, though, and there's absolutely no reason why people can't pop up and try to offer a bit of balance. but honestly, it seems that balance isn't really WANTED here. like Peon said, Hannah's post is seen as "winning" based solely on emotion, and other people chime in with erroneous facts and figures to somehow back that up, and statistics and surveys just aren't concrete enough to base reality on. sorry, but that's my opinion.

tj444 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:07:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep well that doesn't mean anything either, considering that a lot of men in jail are in there for non violent offenses (it's actually very close to 50/50 split, last time i checked), and women often get away with things because the juries in their trials operate on a wrong impression of her BECAUSE she's female. add to that, women's crimes don't tend to be the blockbuster movies that men's crimes often are, so they just flat out get away with more. these surveys, like misread statistics, really don't tell you anything about anyone in general, except for those people who took the surveys. do you know who the sample population of the survey was? do you know any of their demographic information or past criminal records? what if the survey was conducted at Leavenworth prison? =p frankly, you don't know the numbers either, other than what a survey tells you. (i did some googling and found a study with a similar conclusion that was done in South Africa (it's the only one i'm finding with that conclusion) -- there are a lot of bizarre cultural things that probably impacted that conclusion. it's easy to try to extrapolate some big "truth of the world" from that, but if you don't understand how the survey was done, the cultural ideas behind the answers, then you don't understand what motivated any of it. there's also another survey, since these things are supposedly such beacons of truth that says 50% of women blame the victims of rape for their rapes. women aren't the pious little school girls everyone's so quick to believe they are.) hmmm, so people think women are innocent when they commit a crime but guilty when they are raped.. ok, got it. [8\|] Imo, a survey done in S Africa is totally different so it has nothing to do with the US, if you want to look at crime in the US then it has to be from info/surveys done in the US. I would think the govt has stats somewhere on the number of men in jail, the number of women and stats on the category of the crime they are in for.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:09:48 AM)
you were the one who mentioned the 1 in 3 survey; when i went googling to find it, the south african survey is all i can find. so the origin or usefulness of the survey is on you, really, because you're the one who brought it up in the first place and mentioned how sad it was. and as far as violent crimes go, yes -- people tend to assume that women "don't have it in them" to commit violent crimes.

Icarys -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:14:03 AM)
quote: i see 1 in 3 men is likely to hurt me I wouldn't mind hurting you a little...Okay a lot!

tj444 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:22:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep you were the one who mentioned the 1 in 3 survey; when i went googling to find it, the south african survey is all i can find. so the origin or usefulness of the survey is on you, really, because you're the one who brought it up in the first place and mentioned how sad it was. and as far as violent crimes go, yes -- people tend to assume that women "don't have it in them" to commit violent crimes. I have posted the links before in other threads, didnt realize i would need to keep those links in my favorites. Here is one link, there are others that refer to that survey. "In a UCLA study, 35% of college-age men said that they would violently rape if they knew that they could get away with it" http://www.gmu.edu/resources/facstaff/facultyfacts/2-2/national.html

LillyBoPeep -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:25:20 AM)
ah ha, well then i'm mistaken -- thanks for the link. i can google THAT survey insteaad. =p

HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:48:57 AM)
quote: I still look for the good in everyone, because then I usually find it. that's what i'm doing. looking for the good. i'm just not usually finding it. quote: I just do not have the bitterness you have, and I really wanted to figure out why probably because you've got 20 fucking years on me. i've had just a few years to start undoing it, you've had more.

HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:52:44 AM)
quote: i don't think about it that way at all. for me, people start of neutral and become either good or bad through interaction so they get a clean slate and get to prove themselves. see, i'm not the only fucker to do this!

LillyBoPeep -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:57:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather quote: i don't think about it that way at all. for me, people start of neutral and become either good or bad through interaction so they get a clean slate and get to prove themselves. see, i'm not the only fucker to do this! nope, i think it's a fairly reasonable way to interact with people. =p

HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 11:00:47 AM)
quote: I keep thinking about the survey where 1 in 3 men no fucking surveys or statistics allowed!!! that's what fucked this whole thread up in the first place!!! besides, the only fucking stat that matters is this one: 88.472% of all statistics are made up (including this one).

HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 11:05:22 AM)
quote: If it were so clear, this thread would not be as many pages as it is. Just sayin..... qft methinks i needs to work on my fucking compositional clarity some.

LadyPact -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 11:17:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I have posted the links before in other threads, didnt realize i would need to keep those links in my favorites. Here is one link, there are others that refer to that survey. "In a UCLA study, 35% of college-age men said that they would violently rape if they knew that they could get away with it" http://www.gmu.edu/resources/facstaff/facultyfacts/2-2/national.html If this is a hijack, I'll apologize to the OP. Let's take just one second and remember that we really are on a BDSM website. That alone makes Me wonder about the results of this survey. Where's the one in comparison about the rape fantasies of women? There's a single line in that link about how many men would do it if they could get away with it. No information about the context of the question, how it was proposed, or anything else. Hell, I'm a woman and I enjoy being the aggressor during rape play scenarios. If we're going to fault people for what might just be an idea for a sexual scene that might be somebody hot, we might as well scrub this whole site and start over.

RedMagic1 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 11:21:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather quote: If it were so clear, this thread would not be as many pages as it is. Just sayin..... qft methinks i needs to work on my fucking compositional clarity some. What makes FPSRussia so enjoyable? He's not exactly petting fuzzy bunnies. If you post the way he makes videos, for real, you will be one of the clearest posters in the history of the site. Think about my question for a whille, if you would. He is a great example.

kalikshama -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 11:27:51 AM)
To get this: quote: If you can fucking hate men because they fucked you, then told you to fuck off From the following = FAIL reading comprehension IMO. quote: it's based on just shy of ten years experience with men from the point of view of a prostitute, of a girl living alone on the road, of somebody automatically perceived and treated as potential prey. reviled by all and sundry and rejected by those supposedly in place to protect the vulnerable. when even the "ardent feminist" do-gooder running the women's outreach shelter sneaks into your room in the middle of the night, you get just a little fucking cynical. if he were the exception it wouldn't be a fucking problem, but he's not. he's the norm. since i left home at 19 savegry and violence, you wouldn't believe the number of pathetic little overgrown mummy's boys who fucked me and then cried like babies while i held them and soothed them and then beat the shit out of me because i'd seen them like that. Or perhaps JAS was referring to a different post? I went to page 6 but couldn't find anything remotely resembling complaining about being rejected after getting fucked.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 11:30:50 AM)
those were my questions about that link, too -- i went googling and found one page where it was somewhat elaborated on, but since it's a 1991 study, it's hard to find anything contemporary and objective that really goes into detail on it. i would seriously like to see studies about the rape fantasies of women (i have them, and i know a boatload of women who do) not to say that rape is justified just because women have rape fantasies, but a lot of people believe a lot of very strange things about it. like in regards to that study (apparently respondents were given a rape story to read, and then had to answer a series of questions about their reactions to it), here are some other statements i found interesting -- quote: from holysmoke.org (it's a site about fraud, not a religious website =p) 38% said the victim enjoyed being raped, while 47% of the women said the woman enjoyed being raped. 8% of the men said the victim could have stopped the rape, while 57% of the women thought she could have stopped it. 36% of the men thought all women would enjoy victimization, while *32% of the women thought all women* would enjoy victimization**. a lot of people believe a lot of very odd things about rape. there were also questions that asked if men thought other men would likely rape someone if they could get away with it, and a lot of men (i think over 50%) said they thought so. but if you're going to talk about surveys, you have to wonder how are these questions worded? somewhere else in the survey the terminology "force his attentions" is used, so it's possible that other language was used besides rape, and some people didn't equate the two. (granted "force your attentions" to me reads as "rape!" but someone might think that means arguing. =p) in sociology classes i've taken we often discussed how sometimes the wording used in surveys and in statistics-gathering exercises changes the outcome of the process. BUT ANYWAY, i agree with Hannah that stats-quoting and survey-throwing is kinda what derailed her thread in the first place.

LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 12:50:45 PM)
~FR~ I have read here & elsewhere a lot about how if one looks for the good in people that's what they will find. But I don't think that's true without qualification. I think that you can only find good if it's actually there. Yeah, there can be a pretty flower growing out of a dung heap, but sometimes a dung heap is just a dung heap. Lilly said: quote: for me, people start of neutral and become either good or bad through interaction. This is exactly what Hannah said in her OP, that each person starts off with a clean slate for her & then they prove themselves good or bad.

HeatherMcLeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 1:43:05 PM)
Hi Otter. This is kind of neat, the two of us having this quiet little conversation while everybody else (including Hanners) is ranting away about this or that. To answer you, not really, at least not the organized community. Hanners had lousy experiences with munches before, and to be honest, she's not the sort of person that does well in that sort of milieu. I mean, like, just look at how her posting style raises so many hackles here, and she really does post the way she talks. She swears more if anything, and does tell people they are fuckwits, or whatever. She has no self-censoring mechanism, so first meetings are not usually very successful. That and I'm too young to go to most of the events (they tend to be 19+). We do know a few lesbians, singles and couples, into the lifestyle and are friends with them, but a good number of them are girls we have introduced to it. (Extensive Lesbianism Forever!!).

tj444 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 2:47:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I have posted the links before in other threads, didnt realize i would need to keep those links in my favorites. Here is one link, there are others that refer to that survey. "In a UCLA study, 35% of college-age men said that they would violently rape if they knew that they could get away with it" http://www.gmu.edu/resources/facstaff/facultyfacts/2-2/national.html If this is a hijack, I'll apologize to the OP. Let's take just one second and remember that we really are on a BDSM website. That alone makes Me wonder about the results of this survey. Where's the one in comparison about the rape fantasies of women? There's a single line in that link about how many men would do it if they could get away with it. No information about the context of the question, how it was proposed, or anything else. Hell, I'm a woman and I enjoy being the aggressor during rape play scenarios. If we're going to fault people for what might just be an idea for a sexual scene that might be somebody hot, we might as well scrub this whole site and start over. I would like to find out more about some of those surveys too and I will probably do some research on it but dont have the time to right now. I do know that particular survey was anonymous. I find the survey on rape attitudes of 11 to 14 year olds to be most shocking (I posted about that one in the slutwalk thread). I dont know anything about surveys on rape fantasies, I personally think it clouds the issue (that is important to me). I dont happen to have those fantasies. But enough on surveys, I only brought it up cuz so many people doubt the amount of sleaziods and/or potential rapists out there.

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