RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (Full Version)

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RapierFugue -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 3:12:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

But enough on surveys, I only brought it up cuz so many people doubt the amount of sleaziods and/or potential rapists out there.


With very good reason.

There really aren't enough hours in the day to go into the various flaws in your "evidence"; the surveys (and there's your first clue, if you'd but realise it) aren't generally credible, are almost never academic to the degree that the law and clinical rigour would demand and (much as with hate crime enactment) they’re seeking to define or measure mental abstracts rather than actuality. To mention only 3 of about 12 big issues I can think of, and that's just off the top of my head.

But hey, as always; those who want to believe a negative spin will believe it. The only wonder is they bother with “surveys” (there's that word again ... have you worked out what's bad about it yet?) in the first place. Better by far to just say “I need to believe <X, or this section of humanity> are fundamentally flawed, for my own reasons, due to my own issues, so I might as well make up numbers to suit or, more realistically, just trawl through a bucketload of non-relevant data until I find some that might just possibly fit my expectations, and never mind if it's not actually true and/or relevant”.

And, even if the numbers were true (which BTW they never will be), they still don't warrant the sweeping, ignorant generalisations that have been made during this thread. Seriously; several people should be ashamed of themselves.

The longer this thread goes on the more concerned I become that maybe stupid really is catching :(



Arturas -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 3:32:56 PM)

quote:

it starts out as "friend" and always seems to end up with "lets fuck", and when you say no, they either get pissed off and try to take it, get whiny and pathetic and try to convince you they've earned it, or they fucking just go away, leaving you wondering "what the fuck happened to being friends?"


I understand. It is a challenge. But I assure you, there are single good men out there looking for you too. Think positive about them, expect only the most wonderful men, the good ones who don't want to talk about bed but about a walk under the full summer moon on a warm summer night.

Look only for them as they will be sent your way.

Well wishes always.



JstAnotherSub -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 4:12:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

it starts out as "friend" and always seems to end up with "lets fuck", and when you say no, they either get pissed off and try to take it, get whiny and pathetic and try to convince you they've earned it, or they fucking just go away, leaving you wondering "what the fuck happened to being friends?"


I understand. It is a challenge. But I assure you, there are single good men out there looking for you too. Think positive about them, expect only the most wonderful men, the good ones who don't want to talk about bed but about a walk under the full summer moon on a warm summer night.

Look only for them as they will be sent your way.

Well wishes always.
Good grief.  She has clearly stated that she enjoys men for a good fuck, her romantic relationship is with a woman.  Why would she want to talk of walks under the moon and all that stuff?

I have no reddin comprenshun at all and I got that much.



Aynne88 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 5:49:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply and just as an aside.....

I am here at work. Guy comes in to pick up an order. Decent looking fellow in his 60's, owns his own accounting and financial advisory firm, very successful and looks it. Friendly, dressed nice, married with grown kids, has a nice home in the best hood in town. Drives a Benz. Not one thing about him says evil or predator. But after two conversations with him I guaranfuckintee he is the kind of guy that Hannah has experienced when 'out of town for business'. Guarantee.



But so what? I mean really what does that mean? When I tend bar I get hit on every day but these guys, but....I don't fuck them.  We have all been hit on by men "out of town on business". So what? Say yes, say no, but don't make it seem like a horny married man wanting to get laid has made your life a living hell.  I really don't get this anger. We all own the right to say NO.



Aynne88 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 5:54:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I take everyone at face value. I find that it surprises people, and most try to rise to the occasion.

If you give off, "I distrust you," vibes, many people will say, what the hell, and do things to earn that distrust. Might as well be hanged for a lion as for a lamb.

If you take a drug dealer's little brother to the dentist, the drug dealer will have your back for life. (This is not a theoretical statement.) Even people who are morally contradicted will be good to you if you construct the right scenario.

I see the solution to almost all of the issues on this thread as: construct a llfe and a personality that encourages everyone you come in contact with to act in a healthy, constructive way. Then, the few who are toxic really stand out.


That is just too funny in it's absolute correctness. You nailed that one Red.



gungadin09 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 6:37:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
...she says she starts every man she meets off with a blank slate, and lets him prove what sort of man he is...she is willing to give every man she meets a fair chance.


Sorry, Hannahlyn and Heather, but i think this "blank slate" idea is bogus, and i'll proceed to explain why.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hannahlyn
there's a really good reason so many ex-prostitutes identify as lesbians, and that reason is men.


But only the men from their past, right? Only the men that they already know? Only the ones that they have personal experience with? All those johns that come back and try to have meaningful relationships with their hookers? Or are these ex-hookers that foreswear men judging all men by the bad experiences of their past?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hannahlyn
...when they are freed of societal constraints, they are, on the whole, very fucking unpleasant creatures.


What is this if not a generalization?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hannahlyn
...trust me ladies, you sure as fuck do not want to know what your loving husbands, sons, and fathers really think of you.


Because you've spoken to every husband, son, and father of every woman on this board, and can attest to this from personal experience? OR, are you making a judgement about men you've never met based on your experiences with the ones you have?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hannahlyn
i give every man the chance to prove himself, they all start with a clean slate. but when it comes to men i've done my fucking research, and i'm a realist about them, so i really don't expect to fucking much from them."


That is NOT the same thing as being "forgiving and optimistic". On the contrary, it's starting out with the full expectation that men will prove to be the overwhelming shits you already suspect that they are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
Surely you can't really blame her for being wary, for expecting the worst, given her background.


i surely DON'T blame her. But being "wary" and "expecting the worst" from men in general is prejudice, by definition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
But equally you can't really call her a man-hater when she so very much wants every man she meets to be one of the good ones. She really would love to be wrong, she just doesn't think she is.


The fact that she would love to be wrong but "doesn't think that she is", is another example of prejudice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
Because she wants to, she really wants to be able to trust you guys again.


Which guys? The guys that she knows from personal experience are shits? Or the male sex in general? If she wants to "learn to trust" men again, it means she doesn't trust them now. i doubt anyone would blame her, but that's called "prejudice".

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
She hates being scared and automatically getting ready to fight or run whenever a man approaches her, she hates that she wears boots, not because she likes them, but because she can hide a knife in them. She usually wears sort of long baggy tops or sweaters so she can hide her pistol, and she hates feeling that she has to do that. She hates the way she nearly panics when I go out without her to protect me. She worries about me when I'm her alone, because she knows from personal experience that a lot of men would be only too willing to take advantage of that.


Yeah, you're right. That's a "blank slate", that's being completely open minded and hopeful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
So, you see, she really doesn't hate men, she just doesn't trust them. And no wonder, men as a whole have given her no reason to trust them, and every reason not to. But she keeps hoping and she keeps trying.


How can you say things like this, and then claim NOT to be generalising? Hannahlyn doesn't trust men, but only the ones she personally knows to be bad, those are the only ones she's judging, right? No. "Men as a whole" have given her a reason not to trust them. And unless she claims to have interacted with every single man on the planet, she is making a judgement about a whole group based on a sample of that group. Which is exactly what so many posters on this thread have had a problem with, not that she judges the ones she already knows.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
It's really important to me that you see her for what she really is, that you understand why she has such a low opinion of men, and just how hard she is trying to overcome her past and to believe that men can be good and decent people.


i think many people will see Hannahlyn in a new light because of this thread. However, one of the things that you've made clear is the fact that she does have a low opinion of men, and not just the ones that she happens to know. The fact that she she does, the fact that she has such difficulty believing that men CAN be decent people, based on her experiences, is exactly the prejudice that people are accusing her of.

pam



Icarys -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 6:41:39 PM)

I think pretty much all of it is bullshit at it's finest. She may articulate her "point" well but she isn't saying anything but I hate men. Healing? The kind of healing it's going to take for someone so gone as you hannah doesn't usually happen in a lifetime..Ya better take your girls advice and get to a Dr..make sure it's a woman FFS.

All men are scum and we are really lucky that someone so tolerant would be willing to cast words our way.



slaveluci -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 6:51:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply and just as an aside.....

I am here at work. Guy comes in to pick up an order. Decent looking fellow in his 60's, owns his own accounting and financial advisory firm, very successful and looks it. Friendly, dressed nice, married with grown kids, has a nice home in the best hood in town. Drives a Benz. Not one thing about him says evil or predator. But after two conversations with him I guaranfuckintee he is the kind of guy that Hannah has experienced when 'out of town for business'. Guarantee.



But so what? I mean really what does that mean? When I tend bar I get hit on every day but these guys, but....I don't fuck them.  We have all been hit on by men "out of town on business". So what? Say yes, say no, but don't make it seem like a horny married man wanting to get laid has made your life a living hell.  I really don't get this anger. We all own the right to say NO.


[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif] Exactly! And if you get "hit on" 20 times a day, it still doesn't mean "most" men are assholes or predators. It MIGHT mean SOME of the ones hitting on you are....maybe. That's about all it means. Say "no" if you want to. Say "yes" if you want to and move on............luci



Aynne88 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 6:59:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply and just as an aside.....

I am here at work. Guy comes in to pick up an order. Decent looking fellow in his 60's, owns his own accounting and financial advisory firm, very successful and looks it. Friendly, dressed nice, married with grown kids, has a nice home in the best hood in town. Drives a Benz. Not one thing about him says evil or predator. But after two conversations with him I guaranfuckintee he is the kind of guy that Hannah has experienced when 'out of town for business'. Guarantee.



But so what? I mean really what does that mean? When I tend bar I get hit on every day but these guys, but....I don't fuck them.  We have all been hit on by men "out of town on business". So what? Say yes, say no, but don't make it seem like a horny married man wanting to get laid has made your life a living hell.  I really don't get this anger. We all own the right to say NO.


[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif] Exactly! And if you get "hit on" 20 times a day, it still doesn't mean "most" men are assholes or predators. It MIGHT mean SOME of the ones hitting on you are....maybe. That's about all it means. Say "no" if you want to. Say "yes" if you want to and move on............luci


Having love for luci!!!Thanks for getting it!!!



Kirata -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 7:06:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

I understand. It is a challenge. But I assure you...

I understand. It is a challenge. But I assure you, that little sign you're holding with your name is backwards. [:D]

K.



gungadin09 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 7:42:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
The kind of healing it's going to take for someone so gone as you hannah doesn't usually happen in a lifetime.


i don't think it will take 5 years.

pam



PeonForHer -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 7:48:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

you shouldn't bitch you know, you're one of the men who gives me the most hope.


Then maybe you should give up that hope, because I'm just an ordinary bloke, albeit one with an impressive stomach. ;-)

One of the very 'ordinary-bloke' things about me is that I'm selfish in some crucial ways. For instance, though I'll try to understand why certain women have a very jaded view of men, I'm not ever going to be the partner of a woman like that again. It's brought me too much grief in the past, and I don't deserve it. It isn't fair on me and I think I'm worth better than that.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 8:41:01 PM)

quote:

What makes FPSRussia so enjoyable?
so i should get lots of really fucking cool guns and shoot the shit out of stuff, or as he says 'fuck some shit up"?

just kidding red, i'll try figure out what you're getting at.



tj444 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 8:42:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
For instance, though I'll try to understand why certain women have a very jaded view of men, I'm not ever going to be the partner of a woman like that again. It's brought me too much grief in the past, and I don't deserve it. It isn't fair on me and I think I'm worth better than that.

But a jaded view of men in general doesnt mean a woman would have a jaded view of you.
I cant speak for anyone but myself, but for me, I want to find a guy I can trust, a guy I can be safe with, be in love with, adore and do things for. Distrusting men in general and strangers doesnt mean I distrust all men.

I dont know what kind of woman you have been with before but there are lots of shitty women out there that arent jaded but they are shitty women that you might not like any better. Kwim?



OttersSwim -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 9:59:48 PM)

You know, this whole thread feels to me like it is now going in circles.  We have this repeating cycle of things like: "a man committed rape and attempted murder on me", and "there's not that much diff between that guy and most of the guys out there"...I don't know that this is getting us anywhere.

I suppose I could say that I traveled on business for more than a decade for 40+ weeks a year, had literally hundreds of opportunities to cheat on my wife who refused to have sex with me for years...and I never did...

But what's the point Hannah?  My experiences are not going to change your mind.  You have a path to what most of us hope will be an eventual healing and a changed perception of males.  But we unfortunately cannot give that to you - it is a path that you have to walk. 

Your words about a man raping and then beating you nearly unconscious and leaving you naked and bleeding in an alley in the cold...I wonder if you understand what a sense of total alien horror that gives me, and I am guessing pretty much every one of the other males here who read that?  Again, I draw your attention to that 23K out of 5M people in Colorado...there are some murdering shits out there in the world...but they are not anything like me nor I believe the vast vast majority of the male population of this planet...and it is really becoming heavy to feel as if I am being compared to that sort of being...

Those men that you encountered who would do such a thing to another human...were (in my opinion) concentrated in a segment of society where predators gather just as sure as money dommes gather here.

I am going to try to step away from this topic now as I find the repetition not very healthy.  It has been a good topic and I am glad it was brought back, but I feel as if I need a shower every time I read another page of the same stuff being repeated with no visible progress being made to any kind of conclusion other than that same "men are all bad"...

I wish you peace and love in your future...and healthy relationships with the men in your life.



juliaoceania -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:00:18 PM)

quote:

she's and i are not talking about "a horny married man wanting to get laid", we're talking about the kind of guy who gets his fucking rocks off beating a barely pubescent girl nearly unconscious, fucking her, and leaving her naked and bleeding in an alleyway in sub-zero temperatures. they are the ones who make life a fucking hell, but the difference between them and your horny businessman is only one of degree. its the same fucking "infantile sense of entitlement" that leads to both fucking behaviours.



The man who likes to beat pubescent girls and leave them for dead in the alleyway criminally sociopathic

The guy who fucks whores when he is out of town is sophomoric assbite with an infantile sense of entitlement.

I think it is seriously screwed up to compare having sex with a grown woman that gets paid for the trouble as being even in degrees the same as beating a girl and leaving her for dead. I think this shows the level to which your mind has been poisoned that you do not understand the difference.

I try to understand the plight of girls pushed into prostitution (by force or circumstance). At the same time, lumping all men that have ever visited a whore in one category does NOTHING to mitigate the problems that prostitutes face....





sexyred1 -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:09:45 PM)

I don't think anything is going to change here.

People have to deal with alot of shit in their lives. Sometimes the shit is of their own making and sometimes they just happen to step into shit.

Whether you let it get to you and damage you or just wipe it off your shoe, even though that might not totally remove the bad smell, is up to you.

I just know that negativity breeds negativity and although I have had some real crap happen to me, I try every day to be positive about things.

Because the alternative just fucks you up even more.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:30:41 PM)

Hannah, those of us who get you, do. The rest of them are just not going to, for whatever reason. Good on ya for trying to alter your outlook! You're an impressive woman.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:33:47 PM)

quote:

Then maybe you should give up that hope, because I'm just an ordinary bloke,
and that is why you give me hope. because you're just an ordinary bloke. and you are kind, and compassionate, and caring. your words have shown me this about you. now granted for all i know you could eat babies for breakfast, but i've spoken with people who know you, and they have a good impression of you. so since that is all i have to go on, your words and their words, you give me hope.

quote:

One of the very 'ordinary-bloke' things about me is that I'm selfish in some crucial ways. For instance, though I'll try to understand why certain women have a very jaded view of men, I'm not ever going to be the partner of a woman like that again. It's brought me too much grief in the past, and I don't deserve it. It isn't fair on me and I think I'm worth better than that.
perfectly understandable, reasonable even. based on your experiences with women who have my sorts of issues about men, you don't want anything to do with them. much like me and men. however, i realize that my issues are not fair. and am trying to get past them. if you people saying "most men are great" was enough, i'd be the happiest little cunt on earth. but it isn't. i need proof. and i seek that proof. i am not finding it very often, so i still have issues, and i still continue to try overcome them. i really fucking wish i could just say to myself "believe!" and it would be so. but it doesn't work that way.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: guys suck, but i'm not a man-hating dyke (6/16/2011 10:52:30 PM)

its the attitude that they are entitled to have whatever the fuck they want regardless of the consequences to others. that is what leads to both things. just because one only wants a quick fuck, does not change that he has the same childish attitude of its his due simply because he fucking wants it.



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