RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men?

RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (Full Version)

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ranja -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 5:58:24 AM)
i do not much care what the rest of society thinks about men and women and our particular relationship. Yesterday He took me to get new glasses... He stayed with me all the time when the young lady checked my eyes. He more or less choose the new frame for me. He sat at the side of me when the sales girl was telling me about the different prices of the different quality lenses... He chose which lenses i should have. He paid (eventhough i had my own purse in my bag). Then He took me by the hand and lead me back to the car... and then He drove me home. and I felt wonderful The young sales girl might have thought there was something wrong with us... or maybe she did not think anything at all, or maybe she aspires to have a man like my Husband herself... or maybe she does or maybe she's a lesbian

PeonForHer -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 5:59:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: texastgirl i mean used to when a man would open a door or pull out a chair for a woman it was called being a gentleman. now if he does it, hes called a pig or chauvinist. when a woman wants to be obedient to a man, society looks at her like shes not a real woman or something. a man takes control over his woman, and society looks at him like he must be forcing her or she must be a victim. so do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men and take control? Nothing personal, texastgirl, but . . . . The day that I decided that it wasn't fair for women to be forced to be what they weren't was also the day I decided the same for men. The answer to your question is 'No'. Since I'm an adult male, I am by definition a 'real man'. Anyone who doesn't like what that is can shove that opinion up his - or her - silly arse. I hope that helps. :-)

LillyBoPeep -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 5:59:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze The funny thing is that most guys happily palm off the unpleasant parts of raising offspring to women, but then are all that eager to blame women for everything that went wrong, wouldn't the simple solution be to take a more active part? Which might include stuff like changing diapers talking to teachers and all that stuff... i have to agree with you honestly. a lot of men are very quick to take off and go to "guy stuff" and leave kids with their mothers, but then sit at the bar and whine about how women are making all the boys too soft. =p well man up! be a parent! take your kid to karate class, i dunno! i think in the distant past, children were raised by their moms, but at a much younger age, they had rites of passage into manhood -- many modern tribes still have these and the boy is considered a man, and learns man stuff around 13-15 (depending on which group of people you look at). he starts spending more time with men instead of with his mother. is there something to it? i dunno. our culture differs in that "man things" and "women things" are becoming less and less defined, so to some degree there's less of a need for blatant rites of passage and time spent learning to hunt and do male rituals, etc. or at least we perceive there as being less of a need, but maybe there is still a very strong need, but we aren't sure how to work it into our modern way of life? we grew up in a single parent family, but had role models like grandpa and the uncles, so perhaps that negated some of the overchickization that could've happened to my brother? who knows! i do think, though, that there are things about being a boy that a woman will never understand because she has never physically been a boy. she can read books and study boys, but she will never personally know what growing up as a boy is like, so for that reason alone, i think it's best for a boy to have a dad, or SOME male he can look up to. now, getting a lot of the adult males to actually man up and function in that capacity... easier said than done. =p

LadyConstanze -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 6:00:15 AM)
I'd say society wasn't better because the kids had male role models, just go back a few decades before divorce was a common thing. Of course it would be ideal for children to be raised in families with both role models, but just because they do have a father in the family, it doesn't mean the father is the ideal role model. Personally I'd prefer to see a child raised by just the mother or the father if the other option is a "complete" family with an abusive mother or father.

Kana -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 6:44:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze I'd say society wasn't better because the kids had male role models, just go back a few decades before divorce was a common thing. Of course it would be ideal for children to be raised in families with both role models, but just because they do have a father in the family, it doesn't mean the father is the ideal role model. Personally I'd prefer to see a child raised by just the mother or the father if the other option is a "complete" family with an abusive mother or father. Yeah, but that's an entirely different discussion there. What I see is a generation of men who learned how to be men from Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, Saturday morning kung fu theatre and street ethics/code.

Fetters4U -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 7:16:37 AM)
Good manners are universal. They have nothing to do with being male or female. A well mannered person will hold a door for another person. That person will make eye contact, smile and say thank you. Those are the rules. The word "real" should only be applied to gender to distinguish from TVs. It is meaningless otherwise. A man may be a prince. a cad, or a brute, but as long as he possesses the right equipment, he is real.

windchymes -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 8:24:05 AM)
In my opinion, a "real man" will do what's right regardless of what anyone else thinks of him.

LadyConstanze -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 8:43:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fetters4U Good manners are universal. They have nothing to do with being male or female. A well mannered person will hold a door for another person. That person will make eye contact, smile and say thank you. Those are the rules. When it comes to opening doors, yes, though I'd say it's still courteous and well mannered if a guy takes that step ahead to open the door for a woman even if she's well capable of opening that door herself, or pulls the chair out for her, helping her into the coat, etc. It could be best described as chivalrous. There are different levels of courtesy, the one I expect from people I hang out with is possibly the most basic one, to "hold doors open for the person who's right behind you", the pulling out chairs and such is very appreciated but that depends also on the education of the person and the circles he moves in, doesn't make him less of a person, however letting the door drop into the face of the old lady or gent who's coming in after you (or any person really), that exceedingly bad mannered and you don't need fancy manners to know that. I'm really having a dislike for people who only use "manners" when they want to impress somebody and otherwise behave like cads.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 8:46:36 AM)
what about women opening doors for men? do women tend to feel that it's courteous of them to do so? i open doors for lots of people, XX, XY, young, old, whoever they happen to be. though i will say, most of the time, older men will take the door from you and let you go first. =p younger men will pretend you're not there. =p

LaTigresse -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 8:51:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep what about women opening doors for men? do women tend to feel that it's courteous of them to do so? i open doors for lots of people, XX, XY, young, old, whoever they happen to be. though i will say, most of the time, older men will take the door from you and let you go first. =p younger men will pretend you're not there. =p THIS totally! I get especially mad when some putz butts in front of someone then lets the door shut in their face. If I happen to be going into a building and someone is following, I always hold the door. It's just common courtesy. Nothing chivalrous about it. I don't run to get ahead of a person (unless they are struggling, example mother with her arms full of kids, elderly with walker or something like that) to get the door for them but damn, what the hell is wrong with being nice to people?!? Kinda goes along with being nice to service people, patient when they obviously are struggling, sticking up for them when a douche bag is making their day miserable.

LadyConstanze -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 9:03:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep what about women opening doors for men? do women tend to feel that it's courteous of them to do so? i open doors for lots of people, XX, XY, young, old, whoever they happen to be. though i will say, most of the time, older men will take the door from you and let you go first. =p younger men will pretend you're not there. =p I thought I made that clear by saying holding the door for the person behind you, you don't have to be male or female to hold that door, letting it fall in somebody's face is rude, no matter if you're a guy or a gurl... I just find that normal behaviour and not holding the door abnormally rude and discourteous (unless of course they are about 100 yards away, I won't stand in the door and hold it open for 10 minutes just so the next person can go through, within reason, somebody walking close behind me)

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 1:13:28 PM)
It all depends upon what Cultural, Religious or views you actually have on your hands. It all varies and depends. There are things that have made it less easy and more easy. So it depends upon what mental conditioning or mindset of whomever you are dealing with.

popularDemand -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 1:47:28 PM)
taking control isn't being a real man. just be real, be yourself, whatever you are pD

sexisubi -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 2:00:38 PM)
chivalry is not dead, its what does one put up with and one does. i notice also that the chivalry will die as time goes on only coming out on special dates, or whatever but its because after awhile the person gets the know the other person well enough some of the politeness goes away but the core character of that person stays the same. i think anyone can tell when a person is being fake, and by that i mean over time the true them will come out if they did pull the wool over the eyes of the other... ive seen it time and time again. a real man is genuine, and a real women is the same. in public we can decide if we wanna play gentlemen and a lady! but behind close doors i ask that we be ourselves!

Icarys -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 2:06:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: texastgirl i mean used to when a man would open a door or pull out a chair for a woman it was called being a gentleman. now if he does it, hes called a pig or chauvinist. when a woman wants to be obedient to a man, society looks at her like shes not a real woman or something. a man takes control over his woman, and society looks at him like he must be forcing her or she must be a victim. so do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men and take control? Not for me, no. I don't believe I've cared that much for what society thinks as a rule most of my life.

LadyConstanze -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 2:27:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexisubi chivalry is not dead, its what does one put up with and one does. i notice also that the chivalry will die as time goes on only coming out on special dates, or whatever but its because after awhile the person gets the know the other person well enough some of the politeness goes away but the core character of that person stays the same. i think anyone can tell when a person is being fake, and by that i mean over time the true them will come out if they did pull the wool over the eyes of the other... ive seen it time and time again. Actually, after 8 years he still walks outside on the road and opens doors, I like that - a lot, but when we met I didn't really pay all that much attention on how he treated me, but how he treated waitresses and the old lady who went through the door behind me, and yes, he held it open for her as well... Too many people worry about how others treat them when they get to know each other, they'd know more about the person if they'd pay attention to how they treat others, especially people who are of no "use" to them, that's pretty telling.

popularDemand -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 2:32:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Too many people worry about how others treat them when they get to know each other, they'd know more about the person if they'd pay attention to how they treat others, especially people who are of no "use" to them, that's pretty telling. what a wonderful observation. pD

LillyBoPeep -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 2:34:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popularDemand quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Too many people worry about how others treat them when they get to know each other, they'd know more about the person if they'd pay attention to how they treat others, especially people who are of no "use" to them, that's pretty telling. what a wonderful observation. pD quite true, quite true

LadyConstanze -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 2:39:13 PM)
Hard won...

kalikshama -> RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men? (6/16/2011 3:02:44 PM)
quote: we met I didn't really pay all that much attention on how he treated me, but how he treated waitresses I once had a first date that was also a last date because of the way he treated the waitress.

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