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RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:20:26 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hmmm... guess you dont mind having children indoctrined to believe that mocking and belittling others because "you feel you are right" is perfectly ok with you.
Mocking is covered in Chapter 9 of The Liberal Playbook. Read it. Understand.





I consider myself pretty liberal. I didn't even take my son to church!

My son is on the atheist side of agnostic, same as Tweaky.... I never taught him how to mock people just because they believe differently. I have zero respect for parents who do. I would not allow my son to go to such a camp, either... kids learn to mock from each other, they do not need adult supervision to do it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:20:58 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Why do quantum particles exist as a sheaf of probabilities until observed? Because of Heisenberg.


Wow, is that the way you always react when the facts do not bear out your claims?

It is a fact so yes it is how I respond when the facts do bear out my claims. Go talk to a particle physicist if you don't understand why.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:22:59 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Why not provide your own proof of that assertion, since it contradicts the information I have found...

Otherwise, I just think you are wrong...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:23:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hmmm... guess you dont mind having children indoctrined to believe that mocking and belittling others because "you feel you are right" is perfectly ok with you.

Since that isn't what happens even by your own source I don't see how it is relevant.

And even if it was happening it doesn't rise to the level of what went on at "Jesus Camp."


Its not? By my own source?

USA Today recently gave free advertising in the form of a 900-word profile to a summer camp, Camp Quest. But unlike other summer camps, however, Camp Quest is for children of atheists and agnostics.

In “Summer camp caters to kids of atheists, agnostics,” Meredith Heagney touted Camp Quest as being just like any other summer camp, but she admitted that, while there is an “emphasis on open-mindedness, poking fun at faith isn’t forbidden.”

One teenage camper stated that they “do talk sometimes about how silly … different religions are and what they to do.”

Even though it’s okay to make “poke fun” at different faiths at Camp Quest, Heagney presented no critics to poke fun at Camp Quest.

Instead Heagney attempted to paint the weeklong camp positivity and explained that the first rule of the camp was to “respect all people, whatever their beliefs, which you encounter while you are here.”

Katie Hladky, a volunteer, teaches campers about different religions. She reassured that she “won’t bad-mouth faith or tell the kids what to think.” Hladky also stated that she doesn’t want children to be “indoctrinated.” After class, Hladkey’s scrupulously unindoctrinated pupils head off to play games as part of teams derisively named for the religions and religious practices the counselors scorn.


Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/sarah-knoploh/2010/07/02/usa-today-touts-atheist-summer-camp#ixzz1PnvaZ3b4


Sure seems like it to me.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:24:11 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hmmm... guess you dont mind having children indoctrined to believe that mocking and belittling others because "you feel you are right" is perfectly ok with you.
Mocking is covered in Chapter 9 of The Liberal Playbook. Read it. Understand.





No one is mocking. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the term a bit better.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:37:50 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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Bleh. Not only do you not know the difference between philosophy and science, you don't even appear to know what philosophy of science is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Real science follows the data. It does not exclude possibilities on the basis of quirky doctrinal beliefs about what is "natural" and acceptable to the faith.

I've left out your comment, because the mere fact that you would argue with that quote says all that needs to be said.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:49:07 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hmmm... guess you dont mind having children indoctrined to believe that mocking and belittling others because "you feel you are right" is perfectly ok with you.

Since that isn't what happens even by your own source I don't see how it is relevant.

And even if it was happening it doesn't rise to the level of what went on at "Jesus Camp."


Its not? By my own source?

USA Today recently gave free advertising in the form of a 900-word profile to a summer camp, Camp Quest. But unlike other summer camps, however, Camp Quest is for children of atheists and agnostics.

In “Summer camp caters to kids of atheists, agnostics,” Meredith Heagney touted Camp Quest as being just like any other summer camp, but she admitted that, while there is an “emphasis on open-mindedness, poking fun at faith isn’t forbidden.”

One teenage camper stated that they “do talk sometimes about how silly … different religions are and what they to do.”

Even though it’s okay to make “poke fun” at different faiths at Camp Quest, Heagney presented no critics to poke fun at Camp Quest.

Instead Heagney attempted to paint the weeklong camp positivity and explained that the first rule of the camp was to “respect all people, whatever their beliefs, which you encounter while you are here.”

Katie Hladky, a volunteer, teaches campers about different religions. She reassured that she “won’t bad-mouth faith or tell the kids what to think.” Hladky also stated that she doesn’t want children to be “indoctrinated.” After class, Hladkey’s scrupulously unindoctrinated pupils head off to play games as part of teams derisively named for the religions and religious practices the counselors scorn.


Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/sarah-knoploh/2010/07/02/usa-today-touts-atheist-summer-camp#ixzz1PnvaZ3b4


Sure seems like it to me.

You're using a newsbusters article. I meant the real article in USA today.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:54:16 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hmmm... guess you dont mind having children indoctrined to believe that mocking and belittling others because "you feel you are right" is perfectly ok with you.
Mocking is covered in Chapter 9 of The Liberal Playbook. Read it. Understand.





I consider myself pretty liberal. I didn't even take my son to church!

My son is on the atheist side of agnostic, same as Tweaky.... I never taught him how to mock people just because they believe differently. I have zero respect for parents who do. I would not allow my son to go to such a camp, either... kids learn to mock from each other, they do not need adult supervision to do it.

That is from this exchange on CM:

FH:" When most liberal have no retort
They seem to go to the following:
1) I am a Racist
2) I am a Sexist
3) I am a Bigot
4) I am a Homophobe
5) I hate Poor people
6) I want to starve your kids and grand momma
7) then they attack my character
8) I am stupid"

THEN:
Frimhand38401: about 6 hours ago
@ ScottyBiscotti:
"Is your mocking necessary"

ScottyBiscotti: about 6 hours ago
"Yes, It's in "chapter 9" of the liberal playbook."

Get some good fertilizer, some potting soil, and some humor seeds and grow a sense of humor, woman.













_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:54:39 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Ah, the USA Today article... just so happens I have that...

Katie Hladky, an atheist pursuing a doctorate in American religious history, teaches daily lessons about world religions and their belief systems.

Hladky won't bad-mouth faith or tell the kids what to think, she said.

"I feel really strongly these kids shouldn't be indoctrinated," she said. Many of the campers, who range in age from 8 to 17, "don't know what they are" yet when it comes to beliefs.

But Hladky doesn't shy away from controversial discussions. When talking about Islam, she told the campers about the debate in France about whether women are oppressed by wearing burqas or whether it should be their personal choice. She detailed the diverse views within Christianity on homosexuality.

Despite the emphasis on open-mindedness, poking fun at faith isn't forbidden.

Each day, the kids split into teams for competitions such as the human-knot race, where teams form a circle and grab hands at random in a tangle. They race up and down a field, then have to unwind the knot without releasing hands.

The team names included the Flaming Messiahs, a nod to the incinerated "Touchdown Jesus" sculpture north of Cincinnati struck by lightning last week, and the Dinosaur Jesus Riders, whose cheer goes like this: "Yeehaw, ride that Jesus!"

........

Campers and staff "do talk sometimes about how silly ... different religions are and what they have to do," Juliana said.

But the main message at camp is "you can believe what you want."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-06-30-no-religion-camp_N.htm

Seems to be saying exactly what the newsbuster site said.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:54:53 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Why not provide your own proof of that assertion, since it contradicts the information I have found...

Otherwise, I just think you are wrong...

ok then, in simple terms before an event you cannot have full knowledge of the state of the particles, due to Heisenberg, therefore once the event occurs you cannot know which of the possible outcomes occured until you observe the particles.

Another example is Schroedinger's cat. Once again because we cannot know the full state of the single radioactive atom, due to Heisenberg again, we can never know when it will decay. So once again we must observe the aftermath of the event to determine which of the possible outcomes occured.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:57:05 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ah, the USA Today article... just so happens I have that...

Katie Hladky, an atheist pursuing a doctorate in American religious history, teaches daily lessons about world religions and their belief systems.

Hladky won't bad-mouth faith or tell the kids what to think, she said.

"I feel really strongly these kids shouldn't be indoctrinated," she said. Many of the campers, who range in age from 8 to 17, "don't know what they are" yet when it comes to beliefs.

But Hladky doesn't shy away from controversial discussions. When talking about Islam, she told the campers about the debate in France about whether women are oppressed by wearing burqas or whether it should be their personal choice. She detailed the diverse views within Christianity on homosexuality.

Despite the emphasis on open-mindedness, poking fun at faith isn't forbidden.

Each day, the kids split into teams for competitions such as the human-knot race, where teams form a circle and grab hands at random in a tangle. They race up and down a field, then have to unwind the knot without releasing hands.

The team names included the Flaming Messiahs, a nod to the incinerated "Touchdown Jesus" sculpture north of Cincinnati struck by lightning last week, and the Dinosaur Jesus Riders, whose cheer goes like this: "Yeehaw, ride that Jesus!"

........

Campers and staff "do talk sometimes about how silly ... different religions are and what they have to do," Juliana said.

But the main message at camp is "you can believe what you want."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-06-30-no-religion-camp_N.htm

Seems to be saying exactly what the newsbuster site said.

Not to me it doesn't

Not taking something seriously that other people take seriously is a long way from ridicule.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:58:51 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		That is funny....

I wonder what chapter 10 will be

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 8:59:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Despite the emphasis on open-mindedness, poking fun at faith isn't forbidden.


Thats open minded to you?

Its not to me. And I would bitch slap anyone who attempted to teach my child that it was ok to do that to anyone.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 9:03:47 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

That is funny....

I wonder what chapter 10 will be
We're still in committee about that...


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 9:06:27 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Despite the emphasis on open-mindedness, poking fun at faith isn't forbidden.


Thats open minded to you?

Its not to me. And I would bitch slap anyone who attempted to teach my child that it was ok to do that to anyone.


Our indoctrination has so far resisted all attempts at discovery. You'll never know...
-The Liberal Indoctrination Agency, Atheist Division.


< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 6/20/2011 9:07:14 PM >

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 9:07:07 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Despite the emphasis on open-mindedness, poking fun at faith isn't forbidden.


Thats open minded to you?

Its not to me. And I would bitch slap anyone who attempted to teach my child that it was ok to do that to anyone.

To many atheists, myself included, religion is an inherently ridiculous idea. It is all I can do not to laugh out loud if someone starts praying in my presence. People who find an idea ridiculous will tend to poke fun at it.

Come on a religion whose messiah was so petty as to kill a tree because it had no ripe fruit when he wanted one? I'm supposed to be respectful of that nonsense?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 9:11:50 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Thats the same attitude when they started out to prove the earth wasnt flat. I do not redicule people simply because they believe or dont believe as I do. If I see things that far differently than they do, I ignore them. It helps no one's cause to point fingers then do what they do that you are rediculing.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 10:00:28 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

To many atheists, myself included, religion is an inherently ridiculous idea.

Ah, but you're not an Atheist. You're a Materialist. Lemme help you...

> Materialism asserts a metaphysical claim about the ultimate nature of reality.
> Religion asserts a metaphysical claim about the ultimate nature of reality.

See how that works? Birds of a feather.

> Atheism does NOT assert a metaphysical claim about the ultimate nature of reality.

So, you're not an Atheist. You're just a priest with a foot in his mouth.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 10:26:50 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Then came our Quantum theory, which totally transformed our image of matter. The old assumption that the microscopic world of atoms was simply a scaled-down version of the everyday world had to be abandoned. Newton's deterministic machine was replaced by a shadowy and paradoxical conjunction of waves and particles, governed by the laws of chance, rather than the rigid rules of causality. An extension of the quantum theory goes beyond even this; it paints a picture in which solid matter dissolves away, to be replaced by weird excitations and vibrations of invisible field energy. Quantum physics undermines materialism because it reveals that matter has far less 'substance' than we might believe. But another development goes even further by demolishing Newton's image of matter as inert lumps. This development is the theory of chaos, which has recently gained widespread attention.

– Paul Davies and John Gribbin, 'The Matter Myth', Chapter 1

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The W... - 6/20/2011 11:57:30 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

So let me get this straight. You two are upset over a camp that no longer exists and hasnt for 5 years?

I wasn't involved in the previous conversation, but I will have a go at this.

The movie 'Jesus Camp' scared the crap out of me every bit as much as film from an indoctrination camp where kids are taught to be suicide bombers would have. The fact that the pastor herself made the comparison made my skin crawl, as did her comments on how 'usable' children are, and how easy it is for her to walk onto a playground where kids know nothing of Christianity and have them seeing visions in minutes (prolly much exaggerated, but it still made me shudder). The scene where she decrees that Harry Potter would have been burned at the stake because warlocks are evil and then makes the kids cry for their supposed hypocrisy is just... something else.

The camp itself isn't the point. The footage from before camp gave a view as to how these kids are being raised, which I'm guessing hasn't changed a whit since the camp closed. Some of the things said in that movie were downright scary when one thinks of someone so indoctrinated as a child achieving a significant political office as an adult.

As to the atheist camp, I would much rather see 'summer camp' as a place where religion, or lack of same, doesn't matter at all.


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Profile   Post #: 200
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