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Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 6:59:28 PM

LafayetteLady

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A recent thread had a lot of talk about people "proving themselves." Many people took offense to the term, but in reality aren't we all "proving" ourselves one way or another to everyone else? We may not call it "proving" but it is still happening.

Now I'm completely disregarding the male and female dominants with profiles talking about how a sub must prove they are "worthy" to serve (and see enclosed application.) That's just bullshit.

I'm talking about our daily interactions, whether they begin on line and move to real time or start and stay real time. I call it the "getting to know you phase." During this time, I'm going to get to know a man, and there are certain things that I am looking for from him in those initial conversations and meet ups. During discussions, how long does he take before asking my measurements? Bad move to me. At a face to face, does he show up on time? I'm very punctual and find people who live on their own "clock" tend to have little respect for those around them. Certainly, if there is a valid reason and apology, that makes a difference. But to blow in 10 minutes late like you are making an entrance? Nope. When we talk, do I feel you are open and honest with me?

I'm sure we all have those little things that we look for in people who might be potential partners that qualify, in the strictest sense of "proven themselves." We are also "proving ourselves" as well with the other person's qualities they are looking for.

Perhaps one might like to say, "we are getting to know each other and seeing how it goes." To me, that is still another way of "proving yourself" to the other person, even if it is nothing more than continuing to be your genuine self.

Lots of other peopls spoke of little "tests" they give to their partner to see if they pass or fail. I think that is setting someone up for failure, and don't partake in such things.

But when you look at it from a broader point of view than in the other thread, aren't we all proving ourselves to those around us?

Post #: 1

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 7:04:51 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
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quote:

A recent thread had a lot of talk about people "proving themselves." Many people took offense to the term, but in reality aren't we all "proving" ourselves one way or another to everyone else? We may not call it "proving" but it is still happening.

Proving to me implies active action in a certain direction. People being themselves doesn't fall into that category for me. I don't want a woman to prove to me anything..I will see her for her compatibility or not...

Same goes for me..I'm not trying to impress upon someone that I am this or that in a real sense. They can take me for what they see..either all bad, all good or a mix of the two. To me the rational belief would have me with a little of both as I see many others but hey..not everyone is rational.

_____________________________

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 7:25:19 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Proving to me implies active action in a certain direction. People being themselves doesn't fall into that category for me. I don't want a woman to prove to me anything..I will see her for her compatibility or not...

Same goes for me..I'm not trying to impress upon someone that I am this or that in a real sense. They can take me for what they see..either all bad, all good or a mix of the two. To me the rational belief would have me with a little of both as I see many others but hey..not everyone is rational.

I totally get where you are coming from here. It does have the same connotations as those who post on their profile "are you worthy to serve me," and they make me cringe. But aren't we all at least hoping when we meet someone that they "prove" to be compatible. Not by doing tricks and jumping through hoops, but through general getting to know you conversations, seeing if maybe some sparks fly.

I think sometimes around here, we get so cought up in the semantics of a particular word, that we forget the wider purpose it can serve.

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 3

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 7:44:58 PM

Arpig

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quote:

I will see her for her compatibility or not...

And thus...she proves herself to be compatible or not.

I realize that its the word "prove" that most are objecting to, but the OP is correct, we do it all the time.

Job interview? Prove you are suitable for the position.
First date? Prove you have something to interest me, other than your tits..
Driver's license? Prove you know the laws of the road.
Need a loan? Prove you can make the payments.

My list could go on and on...the point is that we are constantly proving ourselves to others. You prove yourself in myriad ways daily, and you require others to prove themselves to you as well. We are constantly judging people's worthiness in one context or another. To claim otherwise is either being dishonest or naive.

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 7:56:57 PM

juliaoceania

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I think this is like the word exploit, as there are different connotations for the word "prove". I am going to answer by taking web definitions from google and seeing how they stack up to my world view, and hopefully someone else will get value from the exercise.

Web definitions

be shown or be found to be; "She proved to be right"; "The medicine turned out to save her life"; "She turned up HIV positive"

I think we are all attempting to see if the person we are seeing will prove to be right for us, and we hope if we like someone we will prove to be right for them.

establish the validity of something, as by an example, explanation or experiment; "The experiment demonstrated the instability of the compound"; "The mathematician showed the validity of the conjecture"

I think that many people attempt to prove themselves to other people, and at the same time want others to prove themselves to them. I know this sort of proving might be in the background to some degree, but I try not to make people prove themselves this way, and I do not really desire to prove myself this way either.

testify: provide evidence for; "The blood test showed that he was the father"; "Her behavior testified to her incompetence"

Again, I may try to put my best foot forward, and provide evidence that I am a good person, etc, but I know I am, so I do not think that I am overly concerned with this.

test: put to the test, as for its quality, or give experimental use to; "This approach has been tried with good results"; "Test this recipe"
I do not like tests to prove myself, and I do not test others.

To demonstrate that something is true or viable; to give proof for; To turn out; to manifest; To turn out to be; To (put to the) test, proof; To experience
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prove
I think this is the deepest sort of proof, and this is the type I seek from a potential mate, the proof of time, so to speak. And I am very prepared to prove myself this way.

I do not know if the above was helpful

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/18/2011 7:58:37 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 5

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:05:42 PM

tj444

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well, you dont believe in tests but you just admitted to having them, such as the things you said you are looking for-is he on time? how long it takes for him to ask your measurements, that is a test is it not? it is imo. Just sayin...

I do have "tests", for lack of a better word. I dont see the "tests" i do as setting someone up for failure, they have the choice how they answer or respond to my tests. I will ask questions which i already know the answer to. That is a "test" of his honesty, does he tell me the truth or does he fudge or outright lie about it? Honesty is needed to build trust and I can not be with someone that I do not trust. If the person lies about not so important things, what about the bigger things that are very important? I want to get a fairly good idea of his character, what his true attitudes are. I dont want to be with a guy that is a cheater or would hurt women or kids or pets or cheat a senior of their life savings, stuff like that.

To me, a few tests helps to assess where the person is coming from, its a lot quicker to use tests than to spend weeks or months getting to know someone better only to find important things out after you are already falling for the guy, then the decision becomes a lot harder to make.

I also want to know how compatible we are, what kind of relationship & woman he is really looking for, what general lifestyle, health, exercise & diet, what hobbies and interests, how often he wants sex and what kind,

and just basic stuff like does he have a nasty ex, kids, pets, etc. I assess his temperment, is he easy going like me or does he get up tight easily and for no reason. I also want to know his bad habits, everyone has some, how bad are his? I make note of any red flags.

How he looks is important, he doesnt have to look like Pierce Bronsan (that wouldnt hurt tho

) but I do need to find a certain amount of attraction. I also need to know he finds me attractive too.

All of that, it sort of goes on a pros & cons list in my mind (before I get too emotionally involved), then i can ask myself if I can see living with this person and loving them and having a great life together or do i see it as not fitting well and a rough road to go down... Its easier to fit a round peg into a round hole, than a square peg in a round hole. kwim?

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 6

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:11:15 PM

Icarys

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quote:

But aren't we all at least hoping when we meet someone that they "prove" to be compatible.

Often times it depends on the person saying "prove" and the attitude from which the words came to be spoken.

I still don't like the word but the way you've used it sounds better and is slightly different..It's passive "proving"..I'm okay with time telling the compatibility story and or rendering answers to issues.

I do picture, when someone uses the word, an impetuous child standing with a clenched fist saying "You must!".

I'll add: There are many words that I choose not to use because of the connotations I place on them and in turn would potentially place on a person or group by doing so. not because I care what they might think but because of what I would think of it in general.

I don't like the word deserve either.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 6/18/2011 8:15:16 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
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http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Post #: 7

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:18:26 PM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
...there are different connotations for the word "prove".

i am prepared to "prove" myself by demonstrating my worth to someone else. i do not expect them to take my word for it, i expect that they will expect me to prove it, before they accept that it's true.

i think the confusion over the word stems from the fact that "proving" oneself can also mean overcoming doubt, or *disproving* a preconceived notion that is already there.

It's the difference between starting out on a level playing field or starting out six feet below and having to climb your way up to neutral ground. "Prove yourself" can mean "prove that i'm wrong about you".

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 6/18/2011 8:19:50 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:22:24 PM

Arpig

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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

I'll add: There are many words that I choose not to use because of the connotations I place on them and in turn would potentially place on a person or group by doing so. not because I care what they might think but because of what I would think of it in general.

I don't like the word deserve either.

I'll buy that. However, if you are objecting to a word based on the connotations it holds for you, then you should try to make that clear in your objection, don't you think?

_____________________________

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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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Post #: 9

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:24:11 PM

Arpig

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quote:

"Prove yourself" can mean "prove that i'm wrong about you".

As usual, a damned good point from Pam. But it depends what sort of proof is required.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

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Post #: 10

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:24:25 PM

Icarys

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quote:

i think the confusion over the word stems from the fact that "proving" oneself can also mean overcoming doubt, or *disproving* a preconceived notion that is already there.

It's the difference between starting out on a level playing field or starting out six feet below and having to climb your way up to neutral ground. "Prove yourself" can mean "prove that i'm wrong about you".

That's why I don't use the word very often if ever because there's a reason it has bad connotations. In 40 + years when I've heard people use the word it has rarely if ever had good ones.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 11

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:25:40 PM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
...there are different connotations for the word "prove".

i am prepared to "prove" myself by demonstrating my worth to someone else. i do not expect them to take my word for it, i expect that they will expect me to prove it, before they accept that it's true.

i think the confusion over the word stems from the fact that "proving" oneself can also mean overcoming doubt, or *disproving* a preconceived notion that is already there.

It's the difference between starting out on a level playing field or starting out six feet below and having to climb your way up to neutral ground. "Prove yourself" can mean "prove that i'm wrong about you".

pam

Basically the word has different definitions, and in order to be exact, it is best to put it into some sort of context overall.

In other words... if you are a teenage boy out to prove your manhood, this is going to have a different sort of meaning than if you were talking about an employee who had proved themselves to be loyal and trustworthy over time.

See what I mean?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:27:16 PM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

"Prove yourself" can mean "prove that i'm wrong about you".
As usual, a damned good point from Pam. But it depends what sort of proof is required.

Absolutely. The word itself has different connotations, and we usually decide what person *meant* by looking at the context.

pam

(in reply to Arpig)

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:29:02 PM

MstrPBK

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just my two cents worth here.

At age 53l I find it harder for others to accept My honesty as 'real'. I feel as though others think I stand behind the 'hidden agenda'; which I avoid carrying. At some points I wonder if I am still wanted.

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

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Post #: 14

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:37:57 PM

Arpig

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quote:

At some points I wonder if I am still wanted.

Sorry PBK, at our age we rarely are.

Maybe things would work smoother if instead of jumping up to object based on the connotations of a word (I do it too, so I'm not trying to act saintly), we asked for clarification.

For example, on the other thread that spawned this one, she did eventually explain that all that was required to prove one was decent was to be decent. Given that sort of criteria, even a "prove I'm wrong about you" isn't really much of a burden. After all if you are a decent person, how much trouble is it to be one?

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

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Post #: 15

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:47:39 PM

Arturas

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FR

Do you think that in just being yourself, being true to yourself, not trying to be something you're not, will simply be easier, best for your own happiness and you will be accurately seen by others for who you really are.

I have a favorite saying that I repeat to myself when I find myself heading down a path that is not real or performing actions or having thoughts that I know are not real for me: "it is what it is".

< Message edited by Arturas -- 6/18/2011 8:49:15 PM >

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 8:53:58 PM

Arpig

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quote:

Do you think that in just being yourself, being true to yourself, not trying to be something you're not, will simply be easier, best for your own happiness and you will be accurately seen by others for who you really are.

No. Not always easier, in fact for me its often the much harder path, and no it doesn't always lead to happiness, sometimes it does just the opposite.

quote:

I have a favorite saying that I repeat to myself when I find myself heading down a path that is not real or performing actions or having thoughts that I know are not real for me: "it is what it is".

I avoid those situations like the plague.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 17

RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:02:23 PM

LadyPact

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I'm not all that hung up on the word "prove". I think we all evaluate people on our own terms.

I do have issue with the "tests" thing. I never understand why people feel they have to set up situations to evaluate a person's character. Life of life's terms does enough of that without having to construct silly little games. Does what comes out of a person's mouth match their actions? How do they treat the waitstaff at the restaurant? If they aren't on time, how do they handle it? Everybody gets sick, or takes care (or doesn't care) for their pets, chooses how their appearance comes across when they come to meet you. All of this stuff can allow you to get a perception of another person. There's no need to orchestrate situations for them to react to so you can discern their habits in life.

Testing tends to make Me think that a person doesn't know how to communicate honestly. If they want to know how I'll react to something, they can ask.

_____________________________

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:04:10 PM

littlewonder

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proving onself to me would mean they're going out of their way to actively and consciously to make sure someone sees them in a certain way and that they are who they say they are.

I personally never had any interest in that and instead I am just who I am everyday and if someone thinks that I need to prove myself to them they'd probably be disappointed. When I met Master I never actively or consciously made an effort to see if he could prove himself to me. Instead I just went out with him and if things fit together well with us then I would know we were compatible. If things were out of sync and not balanced between us then we weren't compatible. I never tested him either. For me testing is just waaay too much effort that I just don't have the time or interest in. It just seems like a waste of time for me. Instead someone either is what I need in my life or they are not. No proving necessary if you are the same person day after day.

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:07:40 PM

NuevaVida

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I don't like "prove" for the same reasons Icarys said.

I certainly didn't set out to "prove" anything about myself to the Mister, nor him to me. We were ourselves, understanding that we may or may not be compatible with each other. By being myself, I showed him who I was. By being himself, he showed me who he was. Just so happens we worked very well together.

To me, "prove" seems negative because it places someone on the defensive. "Prove to me you're XYZ because otherwise I won't believe it." Or something like that.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

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Post #: 20

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