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drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 7:58:29 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline 		This is a situation that occurred around here and i thought i would bring it to the boards. I do not know all the details, but here are the basics...

A dad was in charge of his baby for the night. The little one was less than a year old. Dad was bored, puts her in her stroller and wheels her to the local watering hole. He parks her next to him while he downs a few and socializes with his buds. Cigarette smoke was not an factor, nor was any other issue involving her safety. It seems she was contently snoozing the entire time.

Dad sat there for quite a while and downed enough to make him legally drunk. When he got up to leave he was not stumbling or staggering, but would certainly have failed a breathalyzer test. He paid his tab, took the stroller, and left.

Someone in the bar jumped the bartender for not stopping the dads consumption of alcohol, then for not calling the authorities when Dad was "driving" the stroller under the influence.

The issue was not liability of the bartender, nor was it a question of taking an infant into a bar. The discussion was whether Dad should have been stopped from "operating" the stroller when intoxicated.

What say you?


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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:06:38 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Without interjecting my own morals into the issue........

It all depends upon the way the laws are written in that specific location.

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:12:02 AM   
sirsholly


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Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline 		For the sake of the discussion i am assuming there are no laws that apply other than public drunkenness, which really doesn't apply.

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:13:18 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		FR

Someone needs to get a life.   

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:22:24 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

For the sake of the discussion i am assuming there are no laws that apply other than public drunkenness, which really doesn't apply.



I was thinking more along the lines of how they define a 'vehicle' as I assume that is the angle that would be taken.

I've heard of people being charged while riding bikes, driving tractors and riding lawn mowers, boats and other water craft. A stroller is a new one on me. BUT, if someone can tie it into operating a vehicle of sorts....

A lot of it will depend upon whether or not the laws are written in such a way that they can be.....interpreted as the prosecutors wish to. And how badly, for whatever reason, they want to go after the guy by pushing how the laws are written.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 6/19/2011 8:26:55 AM >

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:24:29 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Was he licensed to operate the stroller?

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:29:43 AM   
myotherself


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Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		I know here in my part of the UK, a couple of years ago a woman had her child taken from her because she was in sole charge of the kiddie and got drunk. She walked to the local fast food takeaway and was stopped by the police on her way home.

I don't know the outcome of the case, but she was charged with child neglect. I wonder if that would be the case here?

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:37:23 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Here in Iowa, not recently, an 18 month old was found wandering in the street at night by a police officer. Her home was found and the mother was charged with being under the influence and child neglect/endangerment.......whatever.

Seriously, as a parent and grand parent, remembering how my son and his ex had to install locks at the tops of the doors and lock up knives and such in the kitchen, because those boys were terrors.......I can see both sides of the issue.

My grandsons were adept at getting into trouble from the moment they became mobile. Moreso than any other child I have EVER seen. Going places they shouldn't in the blink of an eye. I can totally imagine myself, as a mother of one like them, having a glass or two of wine with dinner, thinking they were in bed and asleep, and voila' one trip to the bathroom or falling asleep watching tv and it would have been very easy for one of them to be, that 18 month old found by the police officer.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:39:46 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		I dunno, Bunnykins..  I suppose a case MAY be made for that.. but by the account posted by the lovely Hollykins, the father was NOT neglecting the child..

the kidlet was sleeping,  he wasnt falling down drunk, the child was not being exposed to second hand smoke.

I fail to see where the child was in any way neglected or abused, personally.

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:39:48 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My opinion, people should not become intoxicated while taking care of children young enough to require a stroller. It just seems wrong to me.

I am not saying they should never have a drink, but being legally drunk while having a young child in your care is something that reeks of an accident waiting to happen.


I did not drink around my son until he was older, and then not a lot.

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:46:38 AM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

What say you?



I say that this is not much different than the dad having a few buddies over on Super Bowl Sunday, having some beers, watching the game, and watching the kid while the mom goes shopping. (Note, that is what happens on the commercials, I do not watch sports.)

For goodness sake, it takes so LITTLE to put someone over the legal limit. One for me will do it, which is why if I am driving I never have a drink with dinner if we are out.

If that patron was so upset then he should have walked with the guy home.

If he was not staggering and such then I am sure he was capable of pushing a stroller down a sidewalk.

And if we are going to call that operating a vehicle, what about those folks that have a beer while mowing the yard with a push mower? Or doing some landscaping/gardening with a wheel barrow.

Personally, I just do not see the who-fra.

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:52:09 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My opinion, people should not become intoxicated while taking care of children young enough to require a stroller. It just seems wrong to me.

I am not saying they should never have a drink, but being legally drunk while having a young child in your care is something that reeks of an accident waiting to happen.


I did not drink around my son until he was older, and then not a lot.


You did it again, this is exactly what I was going to say

It's not the operation of the stroller that concerns me, but when a child is entrusted to your care, you don't go out and get drunk! If you absolutely can't wait until the parents get back, then walk to the corner store and grab a 6-pack and take it home so the child is at least in a home, not in a bar, not in the streets.

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 8:54:15 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

What say you?



I say that this is not much different than the dad having a few buddies over on Super Bowl Sunday, having some beers, watching the game, and watching the kid while the mom goes shopping. (Note, that is what happens on the commercials, I do not watch sports.)

For goodness sake, it takes so LITTLE to put someone over the legal limit. One for me will do it, which is why if I am driving I never have a drink with dinner if we are out.

If that patron was so upset then he should have walked with the guy home.

If he was not staggering and such then I am sure he was capable of pushing a stroller down a sidewalk.

And if we are going to call that operating a vehicle, what about those folks that have a beer while mowing the yard with a push mower? Or doing some landscaping/gardening with a wheel barrow.

Personally, I just do not see the who-fra.


This.

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 9:00:42 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		If that patron was so upset then he should have walked with the guy home./snip


agreed!

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 9:01:18 AM   
myotherself


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From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I dunno, Bunnykins..  I suppose a case MAY be made for that.. but by the account posted by the lovely Hollykins, the father was NOT neglecting the child..

the kidlet was sleeping,  he wasnt falling down drunk, the child was not being exposed to second hand smoke.

I fail to see where the child was in any way neglected or abused, personally.


I tend to agree.

In the case I cited here in the UK, the mother was staggering and clearly very intoxicated. For that reason I can accept that the kid was taken away, at least until investigations could be done to ensure the child's safety.

In Holly's case, I'm kinda sitting on the fence. Part of me says don't drink enough to be legally drunk if you're caring for an infant. Another part wonders what is this particular guy's alcohol tolerance like? For me to be over the UK drink-drive limit I'd be giggly and falling over. For my male friends, they'd be sober to all intents and purposes.

Not an easy decision.

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 9:02:29 AM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Public drunkenness would be only crime I can see, the stroller isn't a motor vehicle so DUI laws do not apply.


From a civil liability perspective, the bar and the bartender could be liable for having "over-served" the dad which would open them up to suit should something happened that resulted in someone's injury.



As for my personal views, the whole thing of parking the kid's stroller by the bar stool and getting drunk is just wrong but that's a personal view instead of a crime.

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 9:02:50 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		totally agreed, pancakehead :)

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 9:04:39 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		No it isn't. And..how many parents have hired a babysitter and gone out, had a few drinks, come home, paid and sent the baby sitter on their way.......now they are home, slightly tipsy and by definition, in charge of their children.

Are they supposed to wait outside, until they are completely, legally sober, before going into their own home?

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 9:07:12 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling


As for my personal views, the whole thing of parking the kid's stroller by the bar stool and getting drunk is just wrong but that's a personal view instead of a crime.



That was my view as well. I was just trying to look at it from an impartial legal point of view.

I know how laws can be twisted and interpreted at times, to fit an agenda, so I was trying to follow that train of thought.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: drunken stroller operator - 6/19/2011 9:08:07 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		good point, LaT.

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