RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/20/2011 4:36:20 PM)

For some, well one I knew, it is a perceived belief in security for life, but as lazarus1983 said at worst it can be a contract that traps two unhappy people together, I am inclined to believe this statement in my case to be true, but then I also am jaded and that due to being experienced in unhappy marriage and that reinforced by the parental marriage I watched over many years dissolve, so perhaps I was jaded from the start.

But what does the concept of marriage attempt to do, what was it's initial premise, was it a property thing, bound by law therefore no one else can touch or was it to bind a person from the naturality of themselves and what that may do to others? Sure, I can see some sense in it and that due to my latter question, as a wandering dog can upset the peace and security of many others who are otherwise content, but have we got the true nature of ourselves right ?

Were we ever meant to grow  to wander until such a time we marry and then stop our wandering, or were we like ships in the night meant to be attracted to one another to learn something we needed to know, that taken aboard we drift onto another, I wonder what the concept of marriage actually does to the gene pool.

But where does the concept of marriage and all it entails come from, what notion inspired it's creation and in that were we trying to change our true nature?

I suppose before that question can be answered, one has to know what is our true nature, but if history has anything to show many who are married can reveal the wandering dog is content for a while but eventually continues with the hunt, in which case does marriage actually do more harm than good, were we ever meant to sit back and give up and ignore the true nature of ourselves, is marriage a test we must undergo, if so, to what end, if it concludes in regret and ill feelings of times passed which may or may not have been.

Then there is the infinite band of gold a circle of the sun and the sincerest of monetary noble metals, could that band, that circle be a containing restraint, a shackle to bind that third finger, I wonder what of the ancients that third finger meant, what is it we in our present day are oblivious to in binding that third finger, what have we lost about the concept of marriage in it's original form.

But gold, that metal that mankind have lusted after throughout our history, I wonder what and why the most expensive metal should be bought to bind, perhaps it contained enough wealth to buy a divorce later or even a funeral and some funds to live on in cases of a bread winner's death. And of death something in the past which came sooner by warfare or other threats of the time, but if that is the case, then with warfare and natural early death so prevelent, perhaps marriage naturally was only ever intended to last a short time, so not inhibiting the natural desire to wander for so long as we have it today?

But myself as a  person very interested in symbology, I myself wonder at the symbology we these days so blindly use unaware of it's original intent, given symbology was of much importance to our ancient past.

But of marriage, I know plenty who are content, they say it works for them and who am I to challenge, but each to their own I say, but it is of interest that another person I knew had a marriage that lasted way longer than their friends and that because they did not inhibit each others desire to shag another outside of marriage vows and that because they know the nature of themselves, their marriage holds strong still. Perhaps an open marriage is with similarity to the concubine idea, the mistress outside of marriage that many wives accept, not as an ideal, but a way to keep their man to ensure their security..




IrishMist -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/20/2011 4:49:37 PM)

I am a part of the club that says it's nothing more than a piece of paper. I have always felt very strongly that I did not need a piece of paper to tell me how committed he was to the relationship.

In the end, we only got married because he issued an ultimatum; marry me or leave. ( He was sick and wanted to make sure that all the legalities were taken care of ).




slvemike4u -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/20/2011 5:58:59 PM)

To the op...depends on who you marry.[:D]




NuevaVida -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/20/2011 6:51:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

for me it's a sacred covenent between us and God. it's not just a piece of paper and for me it makes me feel more owned than i could ever be


Thanks for this contribution, littlewonder.  It would appear that most of those who have contributed thus far see marriage as more of a legal contract/protection than anything else.  I'm glad to see this other perspective mentioned, as well, as I was wondering if anyone would post this point of view.




NuevaVida -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/20/2011 6:53:00 PM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

To the op...depends on who you marry.[:D]


Ha ha ha....good point!




littlewonder -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/20/2011 7:48:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

for me it's a sacred covenent between us and God. it's not just a piece of paper and for me it makes me feel more owned than i could ever be


Thanks for this contribution, littlewonder.  It would appear that most of those who have contributed thus far see marriage as more of a legal contract/protection than anything else.  I'm glad to see this other perspective mentioned, as well, as I was wondering if anyone would post this point of view.



You're welcome. I try not to mention "God" around these parts much because it seems that most who are into bdsm are also agnostics, pagans or atheists or some other in between those. My thoughts don't go down too well around here lol.

When I think of marriage, the financial aspects that everyone talks about rarely even ever cross my mind. They're usually the extremely last thing I care about.

It could be the way I was raised in the Anabaptist faith where marriage was not done in a court of law with a piece of paper or in a big church but among family and friends and in the site of God usually outdoors or in a small meeting house. They were personal celebrations, a renewing of faith, family, of future families, of bonds, strengths and community. Sure there was a piece of paper involved but it was usually part of the family bible.

I guess I'm still pretty old fashioned and still hold strong to some of my beliefs. I adored being married and would do it again in a heartbeat.





defiantbadgirl -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/20/2011 8:19:01 PM)

Sir and I are engaged and want to get married. Unfortunately, marriage for non traditional college students means a reduction in financial aid. So for now, we're cohabitating. We would love to get married without the license if we could find someone to do it. A woman I know lived with a man for a long time but couldn't marry him without losing her Medicaid and SSI. He died several years ago. She still misses him and feels bad that she was never able to marry him.




NuevaVida -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/20/2011 8:29:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

You're welcome. I try not to mention "God" around these parts much because it seems that most who are into bdsm are also agnostics, pagans or atheists or some other in between those. My thoughts don't go down too well around here lol.


Yeah I understand that.  But I am interested in everyone's views, not just the agnostic/pagan/atheist/non-God views.  So I'm glad you contributed.

quote:


When I think of marriage, the financial aspects that everyone talks about rarely even ever cross my mind. They're usually the extremely last thing I care about.


It's always been something that only secondarily (or thirdly, or...) crossed my own mind, which is why I find it interesting that it's (so far) the majority priority here (hey that sounds Dr. Suess'ish, doesn't it? - majority priority)


quote:


It could be the way I was raised in the Anabaptist faith where marriage was not done in a court of law with a piece of paper or in a big church but among family and friends and in the site of God usually outdoors or in a small meeting house. They were personal celebrations, a renewing of faith, family, of future families, of bonds, strengths and community. Sure there was a piece of paper involved but it was usually part of the family bible.

Wow, that actually sounds really beautiful to me.


quote:


I guess I'm still pretty old fashioned and still hold strong to some of my beliefs. I adored being married and would do it again in a heartbeat.


I've done a bit of a journey regarding marriage, from being absolutely for it, to absolutely against it, to somewhere in the middle.  The topic came up over the weekend so I was interested in what people thought about it these days, particularly in D/s or M/s concepts.




NuevaVida -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/20/2011 8:32:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Sir and I are engaged and want to get married. Unfortunately, marriage for non traditional college students means a reduction in financial aid. So for now, we're cohabitating.


I've always thought married folks got all the tax breaks but you bring up some good points.  I recall a woman I worked with many years ago - her husband was severely deteriorating from MS and she couldn't afford to have someone come to the house to care for him the way he needed to be.  She also couldn't afford to quit her job to care for him full time.  I don't know if the laws have changed, but at the time she was advised to divorce him so she could qualify as his caretaker.  She said no fucking way.

But I believe the laws in California have changed now, and spouses qualify for caretaker benefits.  I know my sister was given application paperwork to fill out when her husband had to stop working due to multiple myeloma.




HannahLynHeather -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 12:14:46 AM)

i am fucking conflicted about marriage.

i see it in a romantic sense . its a commitment between me and my lover, sort of the ultimate fucking expression of our love.

however, and this is a fucking big however.

i don't believe in god, so a religious wedding has no fucking meaning to me. so a church wedding would be a lie, and therefore negate the whole purpose. that leaves a civil wedding. but i don't believe in government either, so a civil ceremony would be just as big a fucking lie. so there's no way to actually do it.

like i said, tres fucking conflicted.




LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 3:15:46 AM)

I had some friends who did a "jumping the broom" ceremony. They had a wedding, but no marriage license.

My thoughts on this are: I was married 3 times by the time I was 30 years old. My 3rd marriage was in sobriety & I told him & everyone else that he would be my last husband. Either we would stay married for the rest of our lives or I would stop trying to do something that I apparently wasn't very good at doing. He left me 18 months later, in 1978, but I had no interest in divorcing him. If he hadn't been required to marry another woman due to a job, we'd probably still be married today. We got back together & cohabited from 2000-2003 & I would have remarried him in a heartbeat, but he wasn't willing. I've had other relationships over the years, a few of which have been live in. A lover & I participated in a mass commitment ceremony for same-sex couples in the 1990's. But I have never remarried, nor do I think that I ever will.

I think that marriage is a wonderful way to cement a commitment & to celebrate that bond for a lot of people. If the Owners & I could have been open with the rest of the world about our relationship & there were something like what Lady Pact mentioned for secondary partners, I think that we would have entered into something like that. I know a lot of M/s, D/s couples who are married & very happy that they are. I don't see why it couldn't be a part of that type of relationship.




GreedyTop -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 5:38:29 AM)

~FR~

NV.. I've tried to articulate my reasons, but the only thing that stuck, and was perfectly accurate that I could come up with is:

"either I suck at choosing partners or I suck at being married.. or both"

lol

quote:

to me, it is really just a business transaction.

of course, I am SERIOUSLY jaded.


ETA:  I realize that doesnt really address my original comment.. but....lol




erieangel -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 7:21:54 AM)

For me, marriage is the ultimate goal of a loving relationship. i used to say that i'd never get married again after my first failed miserably, but i miss what it all means to be married and i've lived with a few guys since becoming single again. part of the reasons those relationships did not work out is because neither of us were looking to marry at some point. A marriage certificate is like the Constitution, just a 'piece of paper' but one in which many of us put a lot of meaning into.




Aneirin -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 8:19:06 AM)

I did not believe it would be so, but prior to marriage I did not think there would be anything different, but after marriage and that is a simple registry office dressed in medieval attire with a dog as a bridesmaid I felt very different, a change mentally as if I had grown up at last, I was very surprised.




NuevaVida -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 8:24:10 AM)

I really appreciate the additional contributions. I admit to being kind of conflicted about marriage myself, and find the "non marriage certificate" type of ceremony to be surprisingly appealing. While I do believe in God (in my own special way), I think God can be made part of any union, if invited in, regardless of a state recognized marriage. Hmmm, food for thought ;)

The subject came up for us over the weekend and I was realizing while I do desire a solidified and intimate life- commitment, the idea of and actual bonified certified marriage didn't really feel like a need to me, so it made me curious what others felt. The replies here helped me put words to what I was feeling so it's mucho appreciated. [:)]




GreedyTop -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 8:29:19 AM)

NV.. what about a handfasting?

another option, if you are interested

(something I *might* consider, myself)




Aneirin -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 8:34:02 AM)

Hand fasting I agree is a good model to pursue, if only for a trial marriage, to see if you are both suited to life long marriage and if such a thing was prominent, perhaps we will have less unhappy marriages and divorces that result.

Hand fasting, the commitment to each other for a year and a day, shouldn't just be for pagans only as it makes perfect sense for all that consider commitment to each other.




NuevaVida -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 10:24:34 AM)

I've been to a handfasting ceremony and it was quite lovely, but not something I'd likely consider for myself. We just didn't relate to the concept. But this isn't about my actual relationship, just thoughts I had on the topic in general.

Edited to fix a silly autocorrect from my iPhone [8D]




LillyBoPeep -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 10:40:35 AM)

i don't believe marriage is just a paper, but i also believe that strong commitment to each other can exist without it.
still, i would like to get married, i believe in it as a way to solidify your commitment, if you choose to go that route.





needlesandpins -> RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? (6/21/2011 10:40:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

NV.. what about a handfasting?

another option, if you are interested

(something I *might* consider, myself)


i've always said i could go for that. a ceremony for show, but without all the other polarva. a big outdoor fire and a hog roast afterwards would be cool. as i have no god inclinations at all, something from a more nature orientated base would suit me much better.

needles




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