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RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 11:02:42 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i like the idea of big outdoor parties. =) a bonfire would be awesome. i wanted to have a big hafla when M and i got married; have all the belly dancers come and get dolled up and dance until we passed out. that would've been snazzy. ^_^ i'd still like to do that, if i ever meet someone i have a connection with again. 

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RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 11:21:00 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		it's the primative, earthy ritual type thing that appeals to me i think.

i'd love to see you all belly dancing around a huge fire

needles

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 11:54:28 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Marriage is not just a piece of paper, it is a binding legal contract. Whatever other significance it may have is determined by the couple involved.

For me personally, I don't need a legal contract to be committed to someone.



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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 4:30:57 PM   
LadyRedRose


Posts: 104
Joined: 1/28/2011
Status: offline 		i would not marry again. not unless it was required, as in a legal marriage in the eyes of the military should i ever be committed to a soldier. i would prefer a handfasting or other committment ceremony. it would depend alot on the person i was with.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 4:53:57 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I really appreciate the additional contributions. I admit to being kind of conflicted about marriage myself, and find the "non marriage certificate" type of ceremony to be surprisingly appealing. While I do believe in God (in my own special way), I think God can be made part of any union, if invited in, regardless of a state recognized marriage. Hmmm, food for thought ;)

The subject came up for us over the weekend and I was realizing while I do desire a solidified and intimate life- commitment, the idea of and actual bonified certified marriage didn't really feel like a need to me, so it made me curious what others felt. The replies here helped me put words to what I was feeling so it's mucho appreciated.

That's probably something of your follow up question to Me.  While we didn't do anything "legal" we did have a collaring ceremony.  The bonding from that was very important to Me because of the way we did it.  Definitely one of the most memorable events in My life.


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 5:56:03 PM   
rawtape


Posts: 105
Joined: 10/31/2006
Status: offline 		I think different people have different concepts of what marriage is or what it entails, and I think that's a good thing.

I don't think being officially married made me suddenly feel any different about my wife; it did, however, provide our mutual families with an occasion to celebrate, and it made certain issues like owning property, taxes, visitation rights, etc. streamlined and more convenient. I don't think the latter is particularly fair when we both have close friends, just as committed to one another as we are, who are barred from enjoying the same associated benefits.

That's why I think that marriage and all the associated privileges, rights and responsibilities that come with it should be legally and contractually agreed upon by the relevant partners, without the state necessarily defining and enforcing what they must be. At the very least, it would eliminate some of the stipulations based on religion -- the opposition to same-sex marriages, or to polygamous ones.


(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 5:59:58 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Marriage affords another certain rights in regards to their spouse, and in cases of divorce entitles someone to try an take every last dime an item from their spouse if their was no prenup, and also provides some protection in some situations , and so to me will never be just a piece of paper.

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RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 6:07:38 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		It is a binding, legal contract where, 19 out of 20 times, the guy gets his teeth screwed out of his head.  Marriage is fine if you are going to have kids but, if not, I advise any man reading this to stay out of it.

You want the downside of marriage?  This scenario is typical (not extraordinary....typical).  You get married.  Both you and your wife are working and have careers.  A kid comes along.  She takes off a few years to raise the kid and keep the house and that is all perfectly fine.  Two years later, another kid comes along.  She takes off another two years but those four years turn into 12 years.  The marriage, for whatever reason, starts to breakdown.  In a worst case scenario, let's say the marriage broke down because she was caught committing adultery.  Here is what will happen:

1) she will get income imputed to her at the highest level she attained while she was working 12 years ago;

2) the man will pay child support pursuant to his current income;

3) the man will pay rehabilitative and/or permanent alimony which is alimony up until the age of retirement;

4) the house will be sold and the proceeds split 50/50 OR the house will not be able to be sold until the youngest child is emancipated with the man having to pay a portion of the roof expenses in addition to having to pay for his own lodging;

5) by the time it is all said and done, the alimony and child support will amount to 55% of the man's earnings;

6) all pensions will be split 50/50 from the date of the marriage except she hasn't been working and so there has been no contribution to her pension for the past 12 years.

So...how does that sound?  That is a typical result.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 6:17:30 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The bonding from that was very important to Me because of the way we did it.  Definitely one of the most memorable events in My life.



I can imagine and something like that sounds very special.


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 6:27:48 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

So...how does that sound?  That is a typical result.



Sounds fine.

Of course you did fail to show the monetary value of the female staying at home to raise the children. Just in the cost of daycare and fuel/car maintance you are looking at quite a chunk of money each year. Yet, you have held it and her valueless. This makes you a putz.

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RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 6:28:49 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		lockedaway my situation was almost exactly the opposite, only he denied me my dream of having kids.  But he didn't work, he took half my retirement, and he (for a time) got spousal support to the sum of $1500/month.

Oh and he refused to consent to sell the house until the market crashed and after he began getting his spousal support payments, but since I couldn't afford the mortgages (there were two), my rent, and his support, we lost the house in a short sale.  And hey, I learned that any money the bank loses in a short sale is considered taxable income by the seller!  Cool, eh?

That said, I highly highly recommend doing whatever work is necessary to move on from the bitterness I am sensing you are feeling.  It kind of comes through in your post, unless I'm misinterpreting.  For me, all that anger is in my past, and it was quite liberating to let go and focus on the life ahead of me.  None of that jaded me, it just made me a lot wiser.


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RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 6:30:27 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		http://www.ehow.com/info_7754173_happens-lawsuit-money-divorce.html


< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 6/21/2011 6:34:11 PM >

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 6:40:46 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		And to the OP, if you love me enough to want me to be your woman, than you will want to marry me. If not, then I am "just" your girlfriend and will act accordingly. I am not saying that I want to re-marry, we aren't yet, but he wants to, and crazy as that sounds, it matters to me that he will.

It is not just a piece of paper, is your mortgage or 401k or vehicle loan just a piece of paper? I read here earlier that someone said they don't believe in God (neither do I) so a civil ceremony wouldn't work because they "don't believe in government." Well, believing in God is one thing but we all live in this world and the government is intrusive in our lives in one way or another so there is no choice to believe it or not, it's here. I had a civil non-religious ceremony and I don't think the government had anything to do with it.

I also think that the US is fucked up in not giving the same rights to gay couples to legally marry, if that counts. Evolve already.


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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 6:40:51 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Interesting article, Aynne.  My legal fees alone were $25,000 - I am still paying them off, in fact.  I look at it as an investment on getting my life back.  

But.............while I understand divorce is the reason many feel as they do about marriage.....it doesn't really factor in with me.  I worked very hard at becoming wiser, not bitter.  And trust me, it was quite a challenge, lol.


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 6:41:48 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

lockedaway my situation was almost exactly the opposite, only he denied me my dream of having kids.  But he didn't work, he took half my retirement, and he (for a time) got spousal support to the sum of $1500/month.

Oh and he refused to consent to sell the house until the market crashed and after he began getting his spousal support payments, but since I couldn't afford the mortgages (there were two), my rent, and his support, we lost the house in a short sale.  And hey, I learned that any money the bank loses in a short sale is considered taxable income by the seller!  Cool, eh?

That said, I highly highly recommend doing whatever work is necessary to move on from the bitterness I am sensing you are feeling.  It kind of comes through in your post, unless I'm misinterpreting.  For me, all that anger is in my past, and it was quite liberating to let go and focus on the life ahead of me.  None of that jaded me, it just made me a lot wiser.



love this. Well said.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 7:13:25 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

lockedaway my situation was almost exactly the opposite, only he denied me my dream of having kids.  But he didn't work, he took half my retirement, and he (for a time) got spousal support to the sum of $1500/month.

Oh and he refused to consent to sell the house until the market crashed and after he began getting his spousal support payments, but since I couldn't afford the mortgages (there were two), my rent, and his support, we lost the house in a short sale.  And hey, I learned that any money the bank loses in a short sale is considered taxable income by the seller!  Cool, eh?

That said, I highly highly recommend doing whatever work is necessary to move on from the bitterness I am sensing you are feeling.  It kind of comes through in your post, unless I'm misinterpreting.  For me, all that anger is in my past, and it was quite liberating to let go and focus on the life ahead of me.  None of that jaded me, it just made me a lot wiser.



Thank you for your arm chair therapy.  I'm a matrimonial attorney.  As I said, the scenario I outlined is typical, especially in a no-fault state.  Sometimes a woman gets screwed in a divorce but that is very rare.  Ninety percent of the time, the man is the breadwinner and the percentages I gave were accurate.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 7:24:30 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Here's a percentage for you.

Any man who complains about actually supporting their children or having to provide a roof over their head is 100% jerk and deserves zero respect.  It's hard enough on *all* parties when there is a divorce.  Those fees from the article make it pretty plain who the only "winners" are.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 7:24:48 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline 		I think marriage should be like having your driver's license with the DMV: every 4 years send in a form and some minor fee to renew it if desired. Would certainly eliminate lots of divorce lawyer jobs, but those folks could be retrained to work at the DOM (Department Of Matrimony).

And yes of course to same-sex marriage rights.

< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 6/21/2011 7:28:03 PM >

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 7:31:51 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Here's a percentage for you.

Any man who complains about actually supporting their children or having to provide a roof over their head is 100% jerk and deserves zero respect.  It's hard enough on *all* parties when there is a divorce.  Those fees from the article make it pretty plain who the only "winners" are.



In most states there are things called Child Support Guidelines that automatically calculate child support.  What offsets the child support amount is the time the child has with each parent.  Most parents don't have an issue with supporting their children.  The issues arise when they are asked to pay 50% of extra-curricular activities that are scheduled during their parenting time or that they had no say in whether their child was enrolled. 

As far as alimony is concerned, some states held that a woman was entitled to permanent alimony after only 10 years of marriage.  So a woman married at the age of 20 could, conceivably, get alimony for life.  Sound fair?  To you, probably, but not to many people. 

As far as the genius post about the value that is placed on a woman keeping the house and raising the children, that is taken into account in every state.  But shouldn't there be an analysis regarding "how well" she kept the house or raised the children?  If you are going to attach a monetary value, shouldn't it be based on quality?

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Marriage - just a piece of paper or something more? - 6/21/2011 7:34:00 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt

I think marriage should be like having your driver's license with the DMV: every 4 years send in a form and some minor fee to renew it if desired. Would certainly eliminate lots of divorce lawyer jobs, but those folks could be retrained to work at the DOM (Department Of Matrimony).

And yes of course to same-sex marriage rights.


What about the children?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)
Profile   Post #: 60
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