pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 5:56:58 PM)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/24/america-pregnant-women-murder-charges

Rennie Gibbs is accused of murder, but the crime she is alleged to have committed does not sound like an ordinary killing. Yet she faces life in prison in Mississippi over the death of her unborn child.

Gibbs became pregnant aged 15, but lost the baby in December 2006 in a stillbirth when she was 36 weeks into the pregnancy. When prosecutors discovered that she had a cocaine habit – though there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death – they charged her with the "depraved-heart murder" of her child, which carries a mandatory life sentence.

Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby. But her case is by no means isolated. Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals.



Bei Bei Shuai, 34, has spent the past three months in prison in Indianapolis charged with murdering her baby. On December 23 she tried to commit suicide by taking rat poison after her boyfriend abandoned her.

Shuai survived, but she was 33 weeks' pregnant and her baby, to whom she gave birth a week after the suicide attempt and whom she called Angel, died after four days. In March, Shuai was charged with murder and attempted foeticide and she has been in custody since without the offer of bail.

In Alabama, at least 40 cases have been brought under the state's ''chemical endangerment'' law. Introduced in 2006, the statute was designed to protect children whose parents were cooking methamphetamine in the home and thus putting their children at risk from inhaling the fumes.

Amanda Kimbrough has been ensnared by the law in a different way. During her pregnancy her foetus was diagnosed with possible Down syndrome and doctors suggested she consider a termination. Kimbrough declined because she opposes abortion.

The baby was delivered by caesarean section prematurely in April 2008 and lived just 19 minutes.

Six months later Kimbrough was arrested at home and charged with ''chemical endangerment'' of her unborn child on the grounds that she had taken drugs during the pregnancy - a claim she has denied.

''That shocked me, it really did,'' Kimbrough said. ''I had lost a child; that was enough.''

She now awaits an appeal ruling from the higher courts in Alabama, which, if she loses, will see her begin a 10-year jail sentence. ''I'm just living one day at a time, looking after my three other kids,'' she said. ''They say I'm a criminal - how do I answer that? I'm a good mother.''

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/a_new_miscarriage_of_justice_20110625/

http://www.smh.com.au/world/stillbirth-mum-up-for-murder-20110625-1gkhl.html

http://www.advocatesforpregnantwomen.org

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/943a7829dd8141b2b1e034296572b380/IN--Rat-Poison-Baby-Death/




juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 6:35:35 PM)

It is a way of giving the unborn rights under the law, a back door way to undermine Roe V Wade




erieangel -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 6:40:03 PM)

The Republican philosophy: Protect the unborn. Once a child is born, however, deny it health care, education, a safe and warm place to live and food.

what is this country coming to???




juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 6:40:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The Republican philosophy: Protect the unborn. Once a child is born, however, deny it health care, education, a safe and warm place to live and food.

what is this country coming to???



Or as I always say "Love all the babies 'til their born"




ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 6:43:40 PM)

It's no surprise that these are GOP states.
The "no big government" mantra is just code for letting states take over and undermine various rights.
Notice that it does not apply to a woman's right to her own body.
It's an embarrassment for the US on the world stage.

Religion makes for truly stupid - and dangerous - people.




NeedToUseYou -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 6:45:54 PM)

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby. If so the law is in conflict, as either, the attacker can not be charged with killing the fetus/baby and the mother could not be charged, or the attacker can be charged and also the mother could be charged.

The law has to be consistent.

So, really a decision should be made one way or the other.

Either a fetus is property or it is human, if it is deemed property then the charge shouldn't be murder, but whatever the charges would be for damaging property. If it is human, then it can be murdered, and if it is human, then the mother, or an attacker could be charged with the death, in cases were the actions of the mother or an attacker are the cause of death.

One way or the other, having both is a conflict.







juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 6:47:27 PM)

quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby. If so the law is in conflict, as either, the attacker can not be charged with killing the fetus/baby and the mother could not be charged, or the attacker can be charged and also the mother could be charged.


Which is also a backdoor way of giving the fetus rights




NeedToUseYou -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 6:55:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby. If so the law is in conflict, as either, the attacker can not be charged with killing the fetus/baby and the mother could not be charged, or the attacker can be charged and also the mother could be charged.


Which is also a backdoor way of giving the fetus rights


I don't know if that is the intent.

But the law is treating unborn fetus/babies as humans with rights, therefore the woman can be charged, until the law is fixed to be consistent, that would mean however no one could be charged with murder if they punched a woman in the belly and caused her to abort. They could be charged with assault and property damage, if the fetus/baby is not human.

Either way, it's going to suck in some instances.






Lucylastic -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 6:56:21 PM)

reducing a woman who is pregnant to being just an incubator, all rights gone until she gives birth, then she can fuck off.
Land of the free just my arse, its only gonna be for men and for women who want to keep their babies.
Edited to add a missing bit




thishereboi -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 7:00:25 PM)

quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby.


Wasn't Scott Peterson charged with killing his wife and unborn child in California?




KenDckey -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 7:38:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby.


Wasn't Scott Peterson charged with killing his wife and unborn child in California?

no





juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 7:41:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby.


Wasn't Scott Peterson charged with killing his wife and unborn child in California?

no





Yes he was....

Scott Lee Peterson (born October 24, 1972) is an American convicted murderer who was convicted for killing his wife, Laci Peterson, and their unborn child in Modesto, California in 2002. Peterson's arrest and subsequent trial dominated the American news media until 2005, when he was sentenced to death by lethal injection. He remains on death row in San Quentin State Prison while his case is on appeal to the Supreme Court of California. He maintains his innocence.




KenDckey -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 7:43:48 PM)

Yeah   I miss read the question.   Tired.   Been working to hard for an old fart   lol   My bad





erieangel -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 7:49:08 PM)

I believe it is called 'special circumstances'. He really wasn't charged with murder of the unborn child, though that is the popular phrasing the media put out. Peterson was charged with first degree murder - special circumstances. The special circumstances being that Laci was pregnant.




servantforuse -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 7:55:57 PM)

You can't have it both ways. If a woman has an abortion its not a baby. If a boy friend kills her or the fetus it is a baby ?




Sanity -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 8:17:28 PM)


Absolutely. Logic pretzels, anyone?

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

You can't have it both ways. If a woman has an abortion its not a baby. If a boy friend kills her or the fetus it is a baby ?




juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 8:19:09 PM)

It is a fetus. I am against laws giving the fetus rights under the law...




Sanity -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 8:21:54 PM)


Im sure you know how that works. Your opinion and fifteen cents will buy you a piece of penny candy...




TheBanshee -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 8:22:25 PM)

Not to engage in an abortion debate, but a pregnant woman has a responsibility to take care of a baby she decides to carry.  If she chose to terminate a pregnancy, that's her right under the law.  If she chooses to carry a pregnancy she does have a responsibility to not use drugs, not drink alcohol, and so forth. 

That being said, its a slippery slope what they are doing.  Should we monitor her calorie intake and fine her for taking that cup of coffee? 

There's a line somewhere between taking meth or crack and a cup of coffee or even a few sips of wine.  Hell my mom smoked through all her pregnancies. 

A woman who tries to commit suicide, pregnant or otherwise needs therapy, not prison.  Men sometimes use this time (when a woman is most vulnerable - she is pregnant, probably financially dependent, and much less employable, and obviously not likely to attract another man to help care for her and her baby) to prove they cannot be depended on, leaving an emotional pregnant woman feeling helpless, insecure and unable to fend for herself much less an infant and feeling she has no choices. 




juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 8:24:05 PM)

Many people consider addiction a disease. Are we going to try people for first degree murder for having a disease? Drunk drivers that kill innocent people are not even treated so harshly as that.




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