RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 11:34:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Oh no, thank you Rho! And that is a genuine thank you!! Adding my thanks

tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 11:36:31 PM)
Ouchie Girlie!! On a side note... lol ... the one's that just made me cringe, then shake my head, were those who had deep episiotomies and would go home, have anal sex, then wonder why their stickes tore. [8\|]

juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 11:37:34 PM)
quote: Largest baby I helped deliver was 13 pounds... to a 13 year old... she didnt even bruise. Gestational diabetes?

tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 11:40:38 PM)
Nope. We tested that kid daily for just that. Then dad walked in, 6'6 and big boned... lol. Doc told the grandmother... "she is a baby making machine, you best put her on birth control"

tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 11:41:42 PM)
~FR I wanted to point out that the case of the 15 year old has not gone to court yet. The case before the Mississippi SC is to get them to drop the one charge before she does go to court.

xXsoumisXx -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 11:41:52 PM)
I have never understood how one can be procecuted for giving birth to an addicted baby, whether it be crack. heroin, etc.., and have it be legal to abort/kill that same baby/fetus. There are many cases of murder involving a pregnant woman in which the accused is charged for both lives ended... it's ok for the mother to kill it, It's just not ok to damage it before giving birth. I have heard all the arguments. I have seen all sides. My career invoves educating many of these damaged children. I have my own opinions and morals about all of this. For me, they do not compute.. i beleive it is wrong to harm something as defenceless as an unborn child.. whether by drugs, alcohol, or violence.

tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/25/2011 11:45:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xXsoumisXx I have never understood how one can be procecuted for giving birth to an addicted baby, whether it be crack. heroin, etc.., and have it be legal to abort/kill that same baby/fetus. There are many cases of murder involving a pregnant woman in which the accused is charged for both lives ended... it's ok for the mother to kill it, It's just not ok to damage it before giving birth. I have heard all the arguments. I have seen all sides. My career invoves educating many of these damaged children. I have my own opinions and morals about all of this. For me, they do not compute.. i beleive it is wrong to harm something as defenceless as an unborn child.. whether by drugs, alcohol, or violence. In the same way its legal to pull life support in a hospital with a health care power of attorney or a court order... or even just the Drs permission... but its murder for the family to do so on their own.

juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:01:11 AM)
I think that part of the problem is that the cognitive development issues occur in the third trimester of pregnancy as far as drugs impairing cognitive development. I remember the crack cocaine epidemic in which they predicted all sort of permanent cognitive developmental issues for crack cocaine babies.... and what they found is that much of the problem was actually FAS, and not related to the crack cocaine abuse at all.... mothers who did crack also drank heavily. Alcohol is the drug that is readily available that has the most severe repercussions for the embryo/fetus. Alcohol is not illegal, and as far as I know there are no laws against drinking while pregnant. Because other drugs are illegal they can screen for these and throw the book at women found to be high on them. It makes zero sense to me that we would lock women up for 20 years for doing a drug that was not as harmful as a legal one, and because the alcohol is legal, drunken women can get away with it. We then also have the repercussion of women getting preemptive abortions because if their kid just might be born with FAS they will opt to abort rather than take the chance and carry the baby full term, even for a woman that did not drink but very moderately, before she knew she was pregnant. Is this really the road we wanna travel down?

Hippiekinkster -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:07:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: And it is legal to drink in your first trimester... crap, some women do not know they are pregnant for a couple of months and it is not uncommon for women to have light periods when they first get pregnant. I took grandma's advice and, at 39 weeks, had a beer while on a cleaning frenzy at my place. Two days later, woke up in labor. The day my water broke I went to the doctor and told him that I was so big it was hurting me when the baby moved... it was two days before my due date, so I asked how I could induce labor naturally... he said "go for a long walk"... I did, and it broke my water. The funny thing was the doctor insisted that my baby could not be hurting me when he moved, because he was on the smaller side of 6 pounds... he said at the most he weighed 5 1/2 lbs... he was 8 1/2[:-] If I had known what douchebags quacks can be back when I was nursing them through their Chem labs, I would have spent all my time with the Nursing students. I had a few future Chancre Mechanics drop the Invertebrate Zoology class I taught as well. Yanno, I regret that I wasn't able to take more Natural Sciences classes. Without going into too much detail, there was pressure on me to get out into the workforce. Same sort of loving support I got from my pigbitch stepmother when I would borrow Ace Doubles from John C., and she would confiscate them with the moronic statement that , paraphrasing, "reading that shit just puts your head in the clouds." This from a moronic cunt who sucked down every "Mandingo" book she could find. Anyway, you get my drift...

Hippiekinkster -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:13:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I think that part of the problem is that the cognitive development issues occur in the third trimester of pregnancy as far as drugs impairing cognitive development. I remember the crack cocaine epidemic in which they predicted all sort of permanent cognitive developmental issues for crack cocaine babies.... and what they found is that much of the problem was actually FAS, and not related to the crack cocaine abuse at all.... mothers who did crack also drank heavily. Alcohol is the drug that is readily available that has the most severe repercussions for the embryo/fetus. Alcohol is not illegal, and as far as I know there are no laws against drinking while pregnant. Because other drugs are illegal they can screen for these and throw the book at women found to be high on them. It makes zero sense to me that we would lock women up for 20 years for doing a drug that was not as harmful as a legal one, and because the alcohol is legal, drunken women can get away with it. We then also have the repercussion of women getting preemptive abortions because if their kid just might be born with FAS they will opt to abort rather than take the chance and carry the baby full term, even for a woman that did not drink but very moderately, before she knew she was pregnant. Is this really the road we wanna travel down? Alcohol (EtOH) is absolutely the worst drug there is. It's almost identical in its effects to EtOEt. Really nasty shit. It's against the law to grow a plant which has been used for centuries as a folk medicine for pain (P. Somniferum) but a drug which kills over 40,000 people a year in the United Snakes alone is legal... nay, celebrated!

juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:18:22 AM)
quote: Alcohol (EtOH) is absolutely the worst drug there is. It's almost identical in its effects to EtOEt. Really nasty shit. It's against the law to grow a plant which has been used for centuries as a folk medicine for pain (P. Somniferum) but a drug which kills over 40,000 people a year in the United Snakes alone is legal... nay, celebrated! I enjoy a few cocktails on occasion, do not get me wrong.... but it is the hypocrisy of our drug laws. I am a person that is for people to use whatever drugs they like. I am also for discovering new ways to help people who suffer from addiction, and ways to keep drug use away from young people as well. We have people here on prescription medication that is every bit as addictive as crack... like Xanax for example, or synthetic narcotics like hydrocodone and Oxycontin. And I am even for legalizing these like they have in Mexico... over the counter. It doesn't do any good to try to police people out of self destruction... That is just my opinion

tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:19:47 AM)
I think the road we should want to travel is to have as healthy a baby as possible without the added addictions. Dont you agree?

juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:25:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I think the road we should want to travel is to have as healthy a baby as possible without the added addictions. Dont you agree? I would love that, but if we make using drugs a life sentence for pregnant women, more of them are going to opt out of pregnancy, especially if they were really negligent in the first trimester, before they knew they were pregnant or before they decided what they wanted to do with their pregnancy. We do that, we might increase the rate of abortions in this country, and maybe we will have less drug addicted/impacted newborns... Unfortunately, not every drug addict will stop using, personally I tend to think that offering pregnant women emergency residential treatment for drug addiction would be a great start! We have to have some sort of option if we want to keep women from having drug addicted children. Just putting them in prison after the fact seems a real waste of two lives....

tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:31:20 AM)
quote: We have people here on prescription medication that is every bit as addictive as crack... like Xanax for example, or synthetic narcotics like hydrocodone and Oxycontin. And I am even for legalizing these like they have in Mexico... over the counter. It doesn't do any good to try to police people out of self destruction... Some meds do not cross the placenta barrier, some do not. Most opioids do. Having said that, I dont know of a single physician who will prescribe them for a pregnant woman, them not wanting to deal with the postential of a lawsuit later. So how are these women getting them?

tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:33:08 AM)
quote: Unfortunately, not every drug addict will stop using, personally I tend to think that offering pregnant women emergency residential treatment for drug addiction would be a great start! We have to have some sort of option if we want to keep women from having drug addicted children. Just putting them in prison after the fact seems a real waste of two lives.... Many states had started such a program, where pregnant women were tested during pregnancy and offered treatment. Some states only offered jail time. In all states, it was ruled unconstitutional.

juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:33:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: We have people here on prescription medication that is every bit as addictive as crack... like Xanax for example, or synthetic narcotics like hydrocodone and Oxycontin. And I am even for legalizing these like they have in Mexico... over the counter. It doesn't do any good to try to police people out of self destruction... Some meds do not cross the placenta barrier, some do not. Most opioids do. Having said that, I dont know of a single physician who will prescribe them for a pregnant woman, them not wanting to deal with the postential of a lawsuit later. So how are these women getting them? That portion of my post was not about pregnancy, it was about legalizing drugs.

juliaoceania -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:36:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Unfortunately, not every drug addict will stop using, personally I tend to think that offering pregnant women emergency residential treatment for drug addiction would be a great start! We have to have some sort of option if we want to keep women from having drug addicted children. Just putting them in prison after the fact seems a real waste of two lives.... Many states had started such a program, where pregnant women were tested during pregnancy and offered treatment. Some states only offered jail time. In all states, it was ruled unconstitutional. Offering treatment is different than requiring it. I do not see how offering treatment to all pregnant women as a course of their prenatal care would be "unconstitutional".... imprisoning, yes, giving an option? Hardly.

tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 12:38:36 AM)
It was mandatory testing. The result was that it was an invasion of privacy.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 1:04:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Alcohol (EtOH) is absolutely the worst drug there is. It's almost identical in its effects to EtOEt. Really nasty shit. It's against the law to grow a plant which has been used for centuries as a folk medicine for pain (P. Somniferum) but a drug which kills over 40,000 people a year in the United Snakes alone is legal... nay, celebrated! I enjoy a few cocktails on occasion, do not get me wrong.... but it is the hypocrisy of our drug laws. I am a person that is for people to use whatever drugs they like. I am also for discovering new ways to help people who suffer from addiction, and ways to keep drug use away from young people as well. We have people here on prescription medication that is every bit as addictive as crack... like Xanax for example, or synthetic narcotics like hydrocodone and Oxycontin. And I am even for legalizing these like they have in Mexico... over the counter. It doesn't do any good to try to police people out of self destruction... That is just my opinion Well, I take Oxycontin, as well as Oxycodone IR. Yes, there is no doubt that I am physically dependent. And that, while occasionally inconvenient, has not led me down the path of self-destruction. After almost 12 years, I am at a fairly low, stable dose. The main side effect now is occasional somnolence. Euphoria is rare. Constipation is rare. I object to having to go to a gatekeeper every month for pain relief. I know exactly how much I need to go from a 7 or 8 down to a 2 or 3 (I know that trying to completely eliminate pain CAN be done, but at the cost of being awake). Having to go to a doctor is superfluous; I rarely see a doctor anyway. I won't say it's a pill mill, because it isn't. What it IS, is a money mill. I mean, they are seeing perhaps one patient every 10 minutes. (my visits normally take no more than about 5 minutes face time, and the prescriptions are pre-printed). There are normally 3 PAs and one doctor on any given day. The doctor doesn't always see people at the rate the PAs do, so I'll estimate that there are 3.5 people per 7 hour day. Lowballing each visit at $100 per, that's $100 x 6 x 3.5 x 7 = $14,700 per day. And I'm being conservative. I'm not counting the epidurals and other "procedures". Times 4 locations. All this current system does is transfer money from people who are suffering, to people who have learned how to game the system. Moving along, is addiction a disease? If it is, how can anyone be culpable for being addicted? Isn't that the basic question? And, even if addiction is NOT a disease, and the use if drugs is entirely voluntary, with absolutely no physiological changes to, say, the nucleus accumbens or the prefrontal cortex, and the mediation of L-type Ca++ channels and downregulation of dopamine receptors is a complete myth, how can a 15 year-old (at the time of the offense to rightard mythology ontology) be held responsible? She's not mature enough to sign a contract to buy a set of encyclopedias, right? Then how can she be mature enough to understand that the ingestion of *** can cause ###? I mean, theoretically, she's the victim of Statutory Rape, yes? How can she be a victim of rape, and be responsible for the result of that rape? Rightard "logic" escapes me.

tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (6/26/2011 1:15:14 AM)
Age of consent there is 16. Unless the father is 16 or older, they cannot charge him. I, personally, believe all women should be tested along with their pregnancy test. But then you run the risk of running such women away from any prenatal care. If a woman tests positive while pregnant, treatment should not be an option, it should be mandatory. But, again, what pregnant woman who is addicted to any drug will risk that? Then we run into the "invasion of privacy" group. I really wish they would make it that a fetus has legal status once it reaches the age of viability. And what I mean is at the age a baby could survive outside the womb.... on its own. 2 million dollars to keep a 20 week gestational baby alive after delivery on every monitor and machine available is not what I would consider having reached that age.

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