RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message

tweakabelle -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/5/2011 8:23:24 AM)

quote:

They are being held back by feminists groups intent on keeping the terror of women for control


Tazzy in order to justify the above statement you need to demonstrate:
(a)"They are being held back by feminists groups": That the people you are describing ("they") are being "held back" by "feminist groups" ; and

(b)"feminists groups intent on keeping the terror of women for control": that the groups in question are " feminists groups" and that those groups' are "intent on keeping the terror of women for control".

Producing links to a websites doesn't even begin to fulfil any of these requirements. It such a broad generalisation that I'm not sure how any one can in fact justify it. Just proving that "feminists groups" are "intent" on controlling women by "terror" seems to me an impossible task.

But if you want to try it ... good luck!



tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/5/2011 10:47:20 AM)

Tweak, you cant break the statement up, its loses the meaning.

quote:

They are being held back by feminists groups intent on keeping the terror of women for control


The search I gave you had nothing listed for treatment centers in any of those sites. Especially the feminist one.

Are you suggesting it isnt a feminist group?

That they didnt give complete information?

That they did do an update and didnt link it back to an article on their own web site?

That they didnt throw the baby out with the bathwater in all they presented in relation to this topic?

The article was designed to frighten. The content was mothers that take drugs. There was no mention of treatment, or laws that support treatment, or convictions that have been overturned.

When you write to instill fear, its an act of terror. When you do it as a knowledgeable group of women who are supposed to be for other women, and you give only half the information, that is control.



LafayetteLady -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/5/2011 10:59:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

LaFayetteLady
For me there is no debate. There is no convincing people whose reading comprehension or their own personal agenda prevents them from understanding facts. There is no convincing someone about the difference between a living child and a dead child when they want to talk about things other than the OP and insist they are the same thing. There is no point in trying to explain the law to someone who doesn't care what the law says. Essentially there is no educating the ignorant.


You might be surprised that I agree with most of what you are saying here. I admit I was surprised to see you describe yourself in such terms.

The OP states in relation to Ms Gibbs: " there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death" and, in relation to Ms Kimbrough; "Six months later [after the miscarriage] Kimbrough was arrested at home and charged with ''chemical endangerment'' of her unborn child on the grounds that she had taken drugs during the pregnancy - a claim she has denied."

Yet, in your post, you claim: "It is about 3 women whose behavior caused the death of the children they were carrying."

There is nothing in the OP to suggest that the women's behaviour "caused" the death of their foetuses. Yet here you have explicitly accused them of causing the deaths of their foetuses. And convicted them too - at least in your own mind.

So yes, as you say: "There is no convincing people whose reading comprehension or their own personal agenda prevents them from understanding facts". Understanding facts is different to inventing facts.

All this must be why you advise us: "For me there is no debate".

In this instance I'm happy to take your word for it. You couldn't have been clearer about why it's pointless to try to discuss this matter rationally with you.



You so obviously missed the point being too busy to take the opportunity to insult me.

There article in the OP was a journalist piece. It didn't include any prosecutorial information. You obviously skipped the part where I stated that it was the journalist who wasn't aware of any evidence. They certainly don't know what the prosecution has in their files. In this country, the prosecution isn't going to release that information.

In Kimbrough's case (if one took the time to look further than the article before speaking, which you can't be bothered to do), there were indications that her child had drugs in its system. The fact that she admitted to someone (in authority) that she did take drugs and plead guilty? Do you really believe that during that 6 months, the prosecution was doing nothing? If you do, you are even more deluded than you appear to be about the law.

There is no question that Shuai's child died because of the effects of rat poison.

I did not say that they definitively caused the death of their children. And to be clear, they were not fetuses. Only in Gibbs case can the argument that it was a fetus be made, since the child was stillborn. In the other two cases, the women gave live births. Care to justify how you can claim their "fetuses" died? Or is it that term fits with your agenda?

I have stated (repeatedly) that these women have or will have the opportunity to defend their actions. But it isn't surprising that some one like you will attempt to put words in my mouth. It seems to be a habit of yours.



tweakabelle -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/5/2011 6:50:42 PM)

One has to wonder why authorities have an apparent focus on this issue when there appears to be far greater threats to the health of American women and their babies:

"Between 2003 and 2007, the average maternal mortality rate – defined by deaths that occur within 42 days of childbirth – has risen to 13 deaths per 100,000 live births, approximately double the low of 6.6 deaths per 100,000 live births recorded in 1987. Today, the United States ranks 41st in the world for maternal mortality, one of the worst records among developed countries. "Near misses", complications so severe that a woman nearly dies, have increased between 1998 and 2005 to become common – at one woman every 15 minutes."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jul/05/maternitypaternityrights-women

The full article is well worth reading.



tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/5/2011 8:47:34 PM)

We dont have the supplies or the manpower to take care of our own, yet we take care of others.



tweakabelle -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/5/2011 10:59:37 PM)

Yes there does seem to be some pretty fundamental questions to be asked about the priorities of the US health system.

The article identifies the trends in maternal mortality deteriorating sharply in recent years. It surprises me that there isn't a public outcry about this. The trends ought to be heading in the other direction wouldn't you agree?




tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/5/2011 11:10:17 PM)

Women and children first... including first to be fucked over in this country.

One thing you have to be careful about with those types of statistics though, just to point this out, is that not every country lists mortality under the same definitions. yes, dead is dead, but, as with infant mortality rates, the definition of what constitutes a miscarriage for reporting reasons in the US may not be the same, or as accurate, as say in India.



tweakabelle -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/5/2011 11:59:37 PM)

quote:

Women and children first... including first to be fucked over in this country.


Yeppers. Strong words indeed! If I didn't know better I'd swear there's a feminist lurking in those sentiments somewhere ..... [:D]

If it's any consolation, it's a universal story as far as I can tell.



tazzygirl -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/6/2011 12:02:38 AM)

lol.... im old school feminism. There are ways to get your point across without having to burn those delectable bras. [;)]



nephandi -> RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges (7/6/2011 8:09:34 AM)

Greetings

I have heard about this and it is terrible, it is an all out attack on women, especially since children is sometimes stillborn, spontaneous abortions sometimes happen even when you do not know you where pregnant. This law call into question every action the mother have done past or present which might have reduced the chances of a successful pregnancy, it attacks women who have been through a horrible experiences and throws them in jail, it is despicable.

Also how far back is this going to go, what about acts done before you know you are pregnant like having a glass of wine before you even suspect? What about acts done before you ever got pregnant? I mean when I was a teenager I was in the water swimming constantly during the summer, including when I had my period, well when I could sneak out to do so as my mother would not let me swim at those times, when I really should not, doing that renders a risk of infection which might make you sterile, and also increases the risk of a spontaneous abortion or a stillborn later if you ever get pregnant. I do not think I ever had an infection, but I could have had it, do that mean that if I become with child and the fetus die and they later find out it is because I had an infection when a teenager because of going swimming during my period as a thirteen year old that I have murdered my child? How far do responsibility go, how far can they blame a woman for everything that can go wrong during a pregnancy?

I wish you well



Page: <<   < prev  11 12 13 14 [15]

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
5.078125E-02