Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 5:56:58 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/24/america-pregnant-women-murder-charges

Rennie Gibbs is accused of murder, but the crime she is alleged to have committed does not sound like an ordinary killing. Yet she faces life in prison in Mississippi over the death of her unborn child.

Gibbs became pregnant aged 15, but lost the baby in December 2006 in a stillbirth when she was 36 weeks into the pregnancy. When prosecutors discovered that she had a cocaine habit – though there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death – they charged her with the "depraved-heart murder" of her child, which carries a mandatory life sentence.

Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby. But her case is by no means isolated. Across the US more and more prosecutions are being brought that seek to turn pregnant women into criminals.



Bei Bei Shuai, 34, has spent the past three months in prison in Indianapolis charged with murdering her baby. On December 23 she tried to commit suicide by taking rat poison after her boyfriend abandoned her.

Shuai survived, but she was 33 weeks' pregnant and her baby, to whom she gave birth a week after the suicide attempt and whom she called Angel, died after four days. In March, Shuai was charged with murder and attempted foeticide and she has been in custody since without the offer of bail.

In Alabama, at least 40 cases have been brought under the state's ''chemical endangerment'' law. Introduced in 2006, the statute was designed to protect children whose parents were cooking methamphetamine in the home and thus putting their children at risk from inhaling the fumes.

Amanda Kimbrough has been ensnared by the law in a different way. During her pregnancy her foetus was diagnosed with possible Down syndrome and doctors suggested she consider a termination. Kimbrough declined because she opposes abortion.

The baby was delivered by caesarean section prematurely in April 2008 and lived just 19 minutes.

Six months later Kimbrough was arrested at home and charged with ''chemical endangerment'' of her unborn child on the grounds that she had taken drugs during the pregnancy - a claim she has denied.

''That shocked me, it really did,'' Kimbrough said. ''I had lost a child; that was enough.''

She now awaits an appeal ruling from the higher courts in Alabama, which, if she loses, will see her begin a 10-year jail sentence. ''I'm just living one day at a time, looking after my three other kids,'' she said. ''They say I'm a criminal - how do I answer that? I'm a good mother.''

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/a_new_miscarriage_of_justice_20110625/

http://www.smh.com.au/world/stillbirth-mum-up-for-murder-20110625-1gkhl.html

http://www.advocatesforpregnantwomen.org

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/943a7829dd8141b2b1e034296572b380/IN--Rat-Poison-Baby-Death/


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 6:35:35 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		It is a way of giving the unborn rights under the law, a back door way to undermine Roe V Wade

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 6:40:03 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		The Republican philosophy: Protect the unborn. Once a child is born, however, deny it health care, education, a safe and warm place to live and food.

what is this country coming to???

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 6:40:58 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

The Republican philosophy: Protect the unborn. Once a child is born, however, deny it health care, education, a safe and warm place to live and food.

what is this country coming to???



Or as I always say "Love all the babies 'til their born"

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 6:43:40 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		It's no surprise that these are GOP states.
The "no big government" mantra is just code for letting states take over and undermine various rights.
Notice that it does not apply to a woman's right to her own body.
It's an embarrassment for the US on the world stage.

Religion makes for truly stupid - and dangerous - people.


_____________________________

He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 6:45:54 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby. If so the law is in conflict, as either, the attacker can not be charged with killing the fetus/baby and the mother could not be charged, or the attacker can be charged and also the mother could be charged.

The law has to be consistent.

So, really a decision should be made one way or the other.

Either a fetus is property or it is human, if it is deemed property then the charge shouldn't be murder, but whatever the charges would be for damaging property. If it is human, then it can be murdered, and if it is human, then the mother, or an attacker could be charged with the death, in cases were the actions of the mother or an attacker are the cause of death.

One way or the other, having both is a conflict.




(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 6:47:27 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby. If so the law is in conflict, as either, the attacker can not be charged with killing the fetus/baby and the mother could not be charged, or the attacker can be charged and also the mother could be charged.


Which is also a backdoor way of giving the fetus rights

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 6:55:07 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby. If so the law is in conflict, as either, the attacker can not be charged with killing the fetus/baby and the mother could not be charged, or the attacker can be charged and also the mother could be charged.


Which is also a backdoor way of giving the fetus rights


I don't know if that is the intent.

But the law is treating unborn fetus/babies as humans with rights, therefore the woman can be charged, until the law is fixed to be consistent, that would mean however no one could be charged with murder if they punched a woman in the belly and caused her to abort. They could be charged with assault and property damage, if the fetus/baby is not human.

Either way, it's going to suck in some instances.



(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 6:56:21 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		reducing a woman who is pregnant to being just an incubator, all rights gone until she gives birth, then she can fuck off.
Land of the free just my arse, its only gonna be for men and for women who want to keep their babies.
Edited to add a missing bit

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 6/25/2011 6:58:18 PM >

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 7:00:25 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby.


Wasn't Scott Peterson charged with killing his wife and unborn child in California?


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 7:38:53 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby.


Wasn't Scott Peterson charged with killing his wife and unborn child in California?

no


(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 7:41:57 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

If someone attacks a women and kills the fetus/baby during the attack aren't they already charged for the death of the fetus/baby.


Wasn't Scott Peterson charged with killing his wife and unborn child in California?

no





Yes he was....

Scott Lee Peterson (born October 24, 1972) is an American convicted murderer who was convicted for killing his wife, Laci Peterson, and their unborn child in Modesto, California in 2002. Peterson's arrest and subsequent trial dominated the American news media until 2005, when he was sentenced to death by lethal injection. He remains on death row in San Quentin State Prison while his case is on appeal to the Supreme Court of California. He maintains his innocence.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 7:43:48 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah   I miss read the question.   Tired.   Been working to hard for an old fart   lol   My bad


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 7:49:08 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		I believe it is called 'special circumstances'. He really wasn't charged with murder of the unborn child, though that is the popular phrasing the media put out. Peterson was charged with first degree murder - special circumstances. The special circumstances being that Laci was pregnant.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 7:55:57 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		You can't have it both ways. If a woman has an abortion its not a baby. If a boy friend kills her or the fetus it is a baby ?

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 8:17:28 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Absolutely. Logic pretzels, anyone?

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

You can't have it both ways. If a woman has an abortion its not a baby. If a boy friend kills her or the fetus it is a baby ?


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 8:19:09 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		It is a fetus. I am against laws giving the fetus rights under the law...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 8:21:54 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Im sure you know how that works. Your opinion and fifteen cents will buy you a piece of penny candy...


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 8:22:25 PM   
TheBanshee


Posts: 403
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Not to engage in an abortion debate, but a pregnant woman has a responsibility to take care of a baby she decides to carry.  If she chose to terminate a pregnancy, that's her right under the law.  If she chooses to carry a pregnancy she does have a responsibility to not use drugs, not drink alcohol, and so forth. 

That being said, its a slippery slope what they are doing.  Should we monitor her calorie intake and fine her for taking that cup of coffee? 

There's a line somewhere between taking meth or crack and a cup of coffee or even a few sips of wine.  Hell my mom smoked through all her pregnancies. 

A woman who tries to commit suicide, pregnant or otherwise needs therapy, not prison.  Men sometimes use this time (when a woman is most vulnerable - she is pregnant, probably financially dependent, and much less employable, and obviously not likely to attract another man to help care for her and her baby) to prove they cannot be depended on, leaving an emotional pregnant woman feeling helpless, insecure and unable to fend for herself much less an infant and feeling she has no choices. 

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges - 6/25/2011 8:24:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Many people consider addiction a disease. Are we going to try people for first degree murder for having a disease? Drunk drivers that kill innocent people are not even treated so harshly as that.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TheBanshee)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094