RE: Fibro, school, house of 6

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GreedyTop -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 12:08:30 PM)
oh, and if she ever rids herself of you.. I'll be more than happy to reconnect with her.

Arturas -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 12:11:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop liek I said.. if it works for you, and tammy is consenting to it (notice I didn not say HAPPY with it).. then carry on. personally, artie, I think you are an ass, and always HAVE thought so. I am at the point now that I think tammy is happy being a doormat/victim/martyr. hey, if it works for you both.. have at it. I'm done with you both. You seem hurt. That's not my purpose. Substance in posting to people who care about you is my purpose. Why do you feel tam is a doormat? Victim? martyr?

kalikshama -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 12:18:48 PM)
quote: Why do you feel tam is a doormat? Victim? martyr? Because of her many posts expressing doormat/victim/martyr sentiments. Really, it seems like the two of you live in different universes.

AlwaysLisa -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 12:20:33 PM)
quote: Tam deserves better and you can do better and you have no idea what kind of a Master I am except from what tam writes and she has written nothing but good things and who is the best judge of a man? Read below, taken from the words posted by your slave. It speaks volumes as to the type of master you are and it all came from Tammy. Perhaps the negative vibes started closer to home then here, on this forum. quote: Now she is here for encouragement and ideas from those sharing her plight. If you wish to simply trash her home, her master, her parenting skills, her name, her dog, her whatever then you are part of the problem and not the solution. Try doing better or as you say, "what the fuck do I care" and in that case perhaps it would be better if you don't say anything but I hope to hear from you. People have given their opinions, input and time. Why is it anyone elses problem, but yours, and why must anyone else be the solution? It's your home, your slave and she is the one posting on a public forum. When you air your personal business on the internet, you must expect not everyone will tell you what you want to hear. All taken from Tammy's posts. (typos not corrected) But coming home with the house a mess, homework to do and pain from the roots of my hair to the bottom of my feet, well it is overwhelming. Master feels the same way about the house, rwhen he comes home he expects it to be emaculant, I dont blame him, it is his home, he has worked hard fo. Before I started back to school i asked everyone if they would help out, they all agreed but now, well not so much. MAJOR STRESS! Any suggestions greatly appreciated. There lies the problem, He does not want to be the one to set down the laws regarding this matter, this is up to me. They never listen to me. Its insane! It is my job to control the house. He works long hours and takes care of many things involving the house. This is my job, but I guess I cannot handle it. Believe me when I say he works his butt off, so no fault of his. I was in charge of the house. (think 50's lifestyle). So my question was what do i do?

Arturas -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 12:32:18 PM)
Well, time for a little truth in posting here and for me to get back to work but I will check back for that one example I asked for... First, this is not about me. It's about tam. Tam is a beautiful, intelligent hard working woman with two lovely kids who has, much to my surprise, fallen in love with me over three years ago (and I with her and her children). She cares a great deal about her home here, her kids and myself. She does have fibro and it does get her down and makes daily tasks a struggle. However, since knowing her I have seen her getting better and becoming a more involved in the outside world (remember when she was on line almost 24/7?) and certainly more outgoing and she has many friends and roots here in the local vanilla community. She has goals now and plans to make them happen and is executing those plans to fruition with my help because we are certainly a team, she is my other half and not a floor mat or victim here. She is the woman I love and care deeply for and one who happily gives more than she receives because that is who tam is as it is many other women here who can identify with her. I want to thank those BDSM and Gorean women here who have offered her encouragement and advice and true level headed thoughts. I wish you all well, Arturas

tazzygirl -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 12:35:23 PM)
Im going to say something.... and I will probably get my head ripped off for this.... but the problem lies with tammy. Arturas has made his position clear to her. She is the one willing to accept his position. If he isnt willing, and she cant force him, all she can do is accept or leave. Im sure we all have those kids of issues in our relationships... perhaps not to the leave or accept level... but things we may love to change about our partner... but know we never will. Arturas. You took on a slave. You know I know what that entails. You have a slave who came to these boards with a cry for help. I am not saying its your fault... I am not saying its tammy's fault... nor is it the kids faults. Its a joint effort... and the one left shorted is tammy. In one post she mentioned leaving. I think that should have been your signal flare to stop and listen. You may lose the one thing you swear you want badly.

LaTigresse -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 1:06:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im going to say something.... and I will probably get my head ripped off for this.... but the problem lies with tammy. Arturas has made his position clear to her. She is the one willing to accept his position. If he isnt willing, and she cant force him, all she can do is accept or leave. Im sure we all have those kids of issues in our relationships... perhaps not to the leave or accept level... but things we may love to change about our partner... but know we never will. Arturas. You took on a slave. You know I know what that entails. You have a slave who came to these boards with a cry for help. I am not saying its your fault... I am not saying its tammy's fault... nor is it the kids faults. Its a joint effort... and the one left shorted is tammy. In one post she mentioned leaving. I think that should have been your signal flare to stop and listen. You may lose the one thing you swear you want badly. Tazzy you've written a post that follows along the same lines I was thinking earlier today after reading the newer posts on this thread. Art calls himself a master and Tammy his slave. Obviously Tammy agrees with him, regardless of what anyone else thinks. We all have some sort of basic concept of the master/slave dynamic......with various tweaks most certainly. BUT, I think most people, especially people that feel they follow some sort of gorean philosophy, have a certain mindset of that type of power exchange dynamic. Barelyanangel, Ishtar, and many others, have written about it from a slave perspective. Orion and others (please forgive me for not remembering names as I do not get terribly involved in gorean threads) have written about it from a master perspective. BUT.....if indeed there is a man that self identifies as gorean and a woman that also feels it to be true. He identifies her as his gorean slave and she follows that mindset. With many, gorean and non, a slave is either a slave, living as his/her master/mistress determines or........not. I've read on here many times that the owner demands specific things of their slave and the slave is to do........regardless of difficulty. Many waxing poetic about such, giving it an air of one true way. So with that said......removing the obvious fuckedupedness of the human relationship issues evident in this particular case, but certainly not specific to this case.... it does come down to whether or not Tammy as Art's slave is willing to accept what that entails. My personal guess, based upon what I've read.......at some point, if another guy were to come along and empathize, offering a 'better' situation........things change. But until then it's up to Tammy to either BE Art's slave or not. Regardless of how much anyone else thinks the whole thing is a ridiculous farce. Regardless of how much fun it isn't for Tammy.

angelikaJ -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 1:10:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata ~ FR ~ After wading through the first five or six pages of this train wreck, and then the last few, I still have a question. Is it safe to assume that this is not a household of cretinous slobs who don't wipe their asses after they shit, who enjoy watching the rats race after tossed food bits, and who consider roaches to be a form of entertainment? Okay, good. That's a start. So, now, tammy says she wants the house neat and organized, but between her schedule and her fibro she can't do it. On the other hand, it's not as if the place is a disaster area, there's no film crew coming in, and, as she observed in one of her posts, sometimes she feels like the best place for her and her kids might somewhere else, just so the freaking dishes could be ignored for a day. So it sounds like she's capable of being realistic about what's possible. *But, there's a problem...* Master Manly Man expects to come home to an immaculate house every day, and doesn't give a bat's shit how it happens. Now I'm not a scientist, but I do believe that with a little math we can figure out where the source of the problem is here, and what's causing all the stress in the home. K. Tam's never said "I don't give a bat's shit how it happens"? This is her OP... [quote I need a neat, tidy and organized home, but I cannot do it alone, it is causing major stress along with severe flare ups with the fibro. I am a student at heart and cannot imagine not being there, in fact I get rather depressed when not in classes. But coming home with the house a mess, homework to do and pain from the roots of my hair to the bottom of my feet, well it is overwhelming. Master feels the same way about the house, when he comes home he expects it to be emaculant, I dont blame him, it is his home, he has worked hard for.] With respect, Arturas, and I did address this same issue in my last post: quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas But opening the house up is Ok! I have a good house I'm proud of that has it's share of problems but none we cannot handle together, given time. You know, tam feels she is not doing enough because of her acute illness that frankly disables her at times. Fibro tends to knock people down and depress them and make them unequal to some tasks and she wanted to share that with everyone and get some thoughts from those who suffer the same illness and probably have the same issues with their children and feelings of not being as good as they once were in all aspects of their lives including raising children. I see she has receive some of that and I personally thank those who offered well meaning advice to her. I assure you I do back Tammy up rather than not take any interest and do my share of the household chores but I do not take direct disciplinary action with her children but back her up or suggest actions to her especially in the area of being consistant. If tammy took anything away from this exchange today it was to be consistant with her children. She also tends to be a 'tree hugger' in trying to plead with the kids and talk to them rather than enforcing her rules and that does not work well. This will take time to change her. quote: ORIGINAL: tammystarm Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have severe fibromyalgia, I go to school full time, and I live in a house that we now have 6 living in. When I wasnt in school I was able to manage the rest, but now it is overwhelming. I need a neat, tidy and organized home, but I cannot do it alone, it is causing major stress along with severe flare ups with the fibro. I am a student at heart and cannot imagine not being there, in fact I get rather depressed when not in classes. But coming home with the house a mess, homework to do and pain from the roots of my hair to the bottom of my feet, well it is overwhelming. Master feels the same way about the house, when he comes home he expects it to be emaculant, I dont blame him, it is his home, he has worked hard for. Before I started back to school i asked everyone if they would help out, they all agreed but now, well not so much. MAJOR STRESS! Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Peace Love And Harmony Tammystar Arturas, I am wondering if either there was an instance of frustration on your part that led Tammy to believe that what she is doing isn't enough or is it that she has higher expectations of herself than you do... because from these 2 posts it doesn't seem like it is really about the same couple. You say you get it but you really don't. You may come home from work tired. You do not come home from work in excrutiating pain from the roots of your hair to the souls of your feet. And my guess is that it is a pain that as much as you may try to empathise with you don't really understand. >>True story: I used to get horrendous menstrual cramps. The kind when I would crawl into a ball and try to find a better position and no better position was to be found. My mother's mother thought I made too much of them, and so did my mother. They started when I was 13 or so. Fast forward 20+ years... I get a call very early in the morning as I am getting ready for work and my mother says with no explaination "I am so, so sorry, I had no idea..." I asked her what she was apologising for and after a second and third apology she told me that the previous night she was having terrible pain in her abdomin and finally after a few hours went to the ER. Come to find out the she was having menstrual cramps (brought on by hormonal shifts from menopause) and for the first time in her life she finally knew what I was going through as she had never had them before (nor had her mother). >> Arturas, this not just pain you can't fully comprehend but a whole collection of of symptoms that try as you might you will never truly know what she is going through. You know she is depressed and tired and in pain, but you can't collectively combine them and know what that is like for her. This is a good analogy for parts of it: http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory-written-by-christine-miserandino/ I get that you care about her. But under the circumstances the bottom-line-truth is that living up to *your expectations* of "immaculate" is what is stressing Tammy. Being in school is what feeds her soul. You could ask her to stop doing that but that would be literally soul-murdering. You are her Master. Figure out a way to make this easier for her. Pay your daughter to do housekeeping, that could be win-win perhaps, or hire someone. This is about Tam feeling stressed and that stress is making everything much worse and terrible for her. Stress is hell on people with fibromyalgia.

tazzygirl -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 1:17:55 PM)
I agree LT. Be a slave to the man or dont... the decision is all hers. quote: But until then it's up to Tammy to either BE Art's slave or not. Regardless of how much anyone else thinks the whole thing is a ridiculous farce. Regardless of how much fun it isn't for Tammy. It isnt fun all the time. But this is her decision. It was also her decision to become a mother. And, in that, I can find fault. Regardless of who she is a slave too, now or in the future, those children will always be hers. They are her responsibility. Arturas took tammy as his slave. She is now his responsibility. Part of that responsibility is her health. A slave, gorean or not, kajira or not, is a slave.... until they decide not to be anymore. For me, that decision was one of the hardest I ever had to make. But, once made, it was done. Arturas needs to wake up to that fact. In these last posts, I see part of the slave slipping away. There has been a change, and I think many see it. Its up to Arturas to fix that change.

LaTigresse -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 1:28:19 PM)
I have to wonder how few men know how seriously in trouble their relationships are, until the relationship is over.

GreedyTop -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 1:31:01 PM)
hell, LaT.. I wnder how many WOMEN are clueless about the same? although, usually, it is for different reasons..LOL

kalikshama -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 2:06:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I have to wonder how few men know how seriously in trouble their relationships are, until the relationship is over. My ex refers to me as "sneaking out in the dead of night" despite me telling him 6 months ahead of time that and when I was moving, packing up for a month and asking him for help with the move (I ended up moving the date up two weeks for while he was out of town b/c he was making me crazy.) As I said earlier in the thread, men being blindsided by divorce is common.

LaTigresse -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 2:25:49 PM)
I am of the firm belief that if a woman has said/written something about it once, she's thought about it at least a dozen times. Probably more. Although when confronted about it by the man in question, there is a good chance she will downplay the seriousness of it. Until she is walking out the door.

Arturas -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 2:46:46 PM)
quote: But under the circumstances the bottom-line-truth is that living up to your expectations of "immaculate" is what is stressing Tammy. Not so. Read her OP again. She says she wants it immaculate and writes that I do also. It is clear the pressure is self induced by not living up to HER expectations as well as HER perceptions of what might disappoint me. And, what is "immaculate" to one is not the same as another. This illustrates the obvious fact that pat answers do not work especially when they are based on reading what one wants to read in a text or adding to it.

Arturas -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 2:59:00 PM)
quote: In one post she mentioned leaving. I think that should have been your signal flare to stop and listen. You may lose the one thing you swear you want badly To be more clear, she said she thought it might be best to live somewhere else so the dishes could stay in the sink without comment and not because I drank, or ran around or beat her too little or did not help with her children or did not love her or did not help with housework or would not take her to the doctor or with meds but so the dishes in the sink could stay there without comment. It still goes back to trying not to disappoint me and that sometimes it would be easier to live by herself and not have someone depend on her and so it would seem sometimes when she is down. But, I suspect me requiring dishes not to stay in the sink dirty overnight, a pet peave of mine, is not really going to drive her off. We simply made sure it gets done and it does.

kalikshama -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 3:03:19 PM)
I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between the dramatics and minimizations.

angelikaJ -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 3:15:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: But under the circumstances the bottom-line-truth is that living up to your expectations of "immaculate" is what is stressing Tammy. Not so. Read her OP again. She says she wants it immaculate and writes that I do also. It is clear the pressure is self induced by not living up to HER expectations as well as HER perceptions of what might disappoint me. And, what is "immaculante" to one is not the same as another. This illustrates the obvious fact that pat answers do not work especially when they are based on reading what one wants to read in a text or adding to it. Which does in fact go to exactly what I said: "Arturas, I am wondering if either there was an instance of frustration on your part that led Tammy to believe that what she is doing isn't enough or *is it that she has higher expectations of herself than you do*... " Now how hard would it have been pages and pages ago to clarify to everyone and hopefully especially Tammy that no, in fact you don't expect an immaculate house and that she is being much too hard on herself? Can't you see the disconnect there? And that doesn't change the fact that as well intended as you may be, you really don't know how difficult this is for her. Back to Tammy, I am sure this has been mentioned a dozen times or so, no matter how small the child (or how old the adult) there is a simple principle that will make things much easier: everyone can clean up after their own mess! There is no reason why the house should be a mess. Even little kids can learn to pick up after themselves, the usual problem is that often the adults just find it quicker, easier to do it themselves than to supervise. That supervision time has big dividends.

tazzygirl -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 3:15:50 PM)
quote: To be more clear, she said she thought it might be best to live somewhere else so the dishes could stay in the sink without comment and not because I drank, or ran around or beat her too little or did not help with her children or did not love her or did not help with housework or would not take her to the doctor or with meds but so the dishes in the sink could stay there without comment. Nor did I ever accuse you of any of those things. But, even you admit she did mention leaving. Arturas, I was in her place. I know a bit of what she is feeling. I lived with him for four years. I worshiped the ground he walked on. In the end, it was not enough. It was my decision to leave. And what she is doing now, was how I began those steps. quote: It still goes back to trying not to disappoint me and that sometimes it would be easier to live by herself and not have someone depend on her and so it would seem sometimes when she is down. Is she disappointing you? or herself? We slaves tend to set ourselves up for some pretty heavy expectations... beyond what the men in our lives have. Her expectation of herself is handling it all.... and she cant. And that is upsetting her. Because she cant handle everything. She is so wrapped up in this prefect slave fantasy. But, that bubble is bursting, Arturas. I hope you take this not as a criticism of you, but a poke in the direction that you need to concentrate upon. I cannot force you to see what I see. And I could be way off base... but I dont believe I am. When I came to Pittsburgh, the man was shocked when I told him how upset I was that I couldnt take care of everything. The fact that I had surgery just a few short weeks after getting here never entered my mind. All I knew was I was not living up to my expectation of being a slave. He told my HIS expectation was for me to take care of ME first. Something I am quite fond of saying.... I need a man to take care of me so I can be free to take care of him. That doesnt mean I want a man to wait on me. But, if I dont have to worry about me, then I can be free to worry about him. I expect him to take care of my needs. Health is a need, Arturas. Emotionally, physically and psychologically, tammy is in need. quote: But, I suspect me requiring dishes not to stay in the sink dirty overnight, a pet peave of mine, is not really going to drive her off. We simply made sure it gets done and it does. Its never just one thing that drives off a woman.

tazzygirl -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 3:17:07 PM)
quote: I am wondering if either there was an instance of frustration on your part that led Tammy to believe that what she is doing isn't enough or is it that she has higher expectations of herself than you do... " lol Seems Im not the only one thinking this way.

angelikaJ -> RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 (7/5/2011 3:22:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: In one post she mentioned leaving. I think that should have been your signal flare to stop and listen. You may lose the one thing you swear you want badly To be more clear, she said she thought it might be best to live somewhere else so the dishes could stay in the sink without comment ... But, I suspect me requiring dishes not to stay in the sink dirty overnight, a pet peave of mine, is not really going to drive her off. Ever think about buying an automatic dishwasher? I bet the kids could learn to load and unload it correctly if that is a task you don't want to ever do?

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