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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/5/2011 7:30:30 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Heather

So i am not assuming, can you quote the post as a whole of what you are referring to. The one sentence you quoted isn't enough for me to make the connection of when you said -

"He is stating that housework is the "natural" role of women, and that women who actually pursue and have careers are acting contrary to nature. "

angel

I imagine Heather is referring to this comment of Art's:

quote:

Right or wrong, it's the way it is and we need our ladies to stay focused on the relationship issues, family and home and relationship nurturing and bring the issues to our attention over and over until resolved but in a positive way because we are irritated already if the hunting and gather (work) is not going well that day. Serious.

BTW, just because many of you ladies are hunting and gathering also makes no difference in this nature dictated dynamic.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/5/2011 9:58:55 PM

tammystarm

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I choose to go back to school it is a passion of mine. And i dont see that ever stopping, if i was forced, well it would not be good. So what do i do? Buck up and take it all until i break, or try and get this house back in order. See it was easy when i wasnt going to school, i had the house the kids and Master, did rather well, holding back the pain...the real problem was i became seriously depressed, imagine winter, never leaving your pjs much less putting on makeup and fixing my hair. I knes I had to go back for ME, yes i said it ME! So im working on who will do what with what , as far as the house goes. Its pretty cut and dry really, it works or it doesnt. Read what you want into it, but it is what it is.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 12:51:50 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

He made text up and inserted it in the original OP to suit his purpose. Yes, it is evident.

Thank you for your interest in my post. However, I did not make up text and insert it into the "original OP" (to quote your Department of Redundancy Department-approved expression). I could speculate that in addition to being illiterate you must also be either crazy or a liar, but in your case that does not appear to be an "either/or" proposition.

If you will accept a kindness, I would suggest for your benefit that you eschew the false accusation ploy when dealing with situations outside your household. Its use in the real world has never ended well for you in the past, and those unfortunate results are likely to continue.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/6/2011 1:53:03 AM >

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 1:53:42 AM

Kirata

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.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/6/2011 1:54:04 AM >

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 2:26:25 AM

sunshinemiss

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Responses by sunshine in orange.

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

~~FR~~

I am going to disagree slightly with the premise of deal with it or leave. Even within a Gorean concept, IF the home falls into chaos or the slaves fall into chaos, it is not a slave's need to deal or leave. Many people believe a Gorean concept is a take it or leave it concept. It's not - that is a misunderstanding that many people have because of a quote people like to throw around. Its hard work, there are usually a LOT of growing pains and chaos and confusion especially in the beginning, there is a lot of concepts at work in a Gorean M/s relationship. And it's not accept it or leave -- its an open your mouth and communicate concept because while he may have issued his expectations and standards AS THE MASTER, it is up to him to set the environment and atmosphere as well as utilizing his mastery and ability to control and discipline for her to REACH and eventually maintain those expectations and standards.

Angel,
That's a fair point in any TPE type of relationship. However, when the man (and I'm using the masculine because it is more relevant to this thread) does not do as he ought, deliberately ignores what's in front of his eyes, and shirks his duty, what next? Live in limbo?

A Man can demand all he wants, however, if he is not setting the slave up to achieve, reach and maintain what he is demanding, then he needs to wake up and realize he is failing as a Master and she will eventually attempt or even gain her self-determination again because her life is so chaotic she has no option but to control what he will not.

And that's what's happening. Do you think any leader of any group / relationship wants the dirty laundry exposed in front of a group of people that he cares to impress? Of course not. (And yes, he cares to impress or he wouldn't be responding. People who don't give a flying fig don't follow their partners around on the boards.)

So i don't agree this is tammy's issue. She simply can't handle the tasks he has demanded of her. So it is HIS issue to either deal with the chaos in his home through his mastery of her and set the environment and atmosphere in a way she CAN achieve what he demands of her or he risks her taking her self-determination and making the decisions for herself. He is the one in control, he is the Master. Therefore, if he wishes to keep the slave == then its his responsibility to keep his slave. IF he allows her the ability to self-determine becuase he has released his mastery of her -- then she may actually decide to utilize such autonomy and leave.

The sad thing is that he doesn't realize that (if we are to believe her) is what's happening. When one's spirit is being destroyed, survival kicks in. Sad that he doesn't see it happening.

As for her having higher expectations than he has of her. That again is a failing of his. If he had her on the path of achieving, reaching and maintaining HIS expectations and standards of her, then the mastery would be firm enough to where if her focus faltered to her own beliefs being what was important with regard to HIS expectations, he would nip that crap ASAP. Many slaves attempt to look beyond where he is keeping her because they think beyond means they are doing it BETTER. In Gorean concept -- this maintaining where he is keeping here is a concept of absolute obedience but also a concept of curiosity is unbecoming a kajira. Absolute obedience means that you don't hear his demands and then say well he wants A, B, and C, but if i do D, E, F instead, i will be ahead of what he wants. --- Umm no. You do A, B, and C and let him worry about D, E, F. Curiosity concept is that a slave doesn't need to worry about what he has in store for her, or what the future holds in terms of what he is planning for her. If he is planning D, E, F then she will know about it when he tells her. Right now, she focuses on A, B, C as he has set out for her.

Come on Angel, anybody who has even skimmed the Gorean board knows that this is not even close to what is happening between these two. It may be that what he wants her to do, one of the A, B, or C, is to keep the house immaculate and to follow her own high expectations. I honestly can't remember what they said about that (if anything), but she's either doing what he wants her to do (falling apart - some men like that after all) or he's not mastering her in any sense - Gorean or -un. Either way, it's a mess.

If she feel she is disappointing you Art, then that is YOUR failing -- not hers. YOu have failed to set up the boundries and environment wherein she isn't worried about doing MORE, she is focused pleasantly instead on doing the right now and letting YOU determine what pleases you and what you need to tweak.

A good Master will keep her within that A, B, C sphere when she tries to get ahead of him. A poor Master will let her go all willy nilly with no boundries and he will get what he has reeped -- chaos.

angel

Write it down on the books. Angel and I actually agree. And this is why I so often say that if you want to be the fellow in charge, you gotta be willing to take the responsibility when things go south as well as when they soar.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 2:55:55 AM

imperatrixx

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=FR=

Tammy to me it seems you have three choices.

1. Leave school.
2. Move back home.
3. Compromise on house rules

Personally I'd suggest moving back home, because this living arrangement does not seem healthy for you - literally, your physical health is suffering due to maintaining the rules of that house. Moving home would allow you to stay in school and maintain the M/s aspect of your dynamic. However, compromising on the house rules can also work, whether it's changing the standard of cleanliness expected or hiring outside help instead of having it be one of your tasks. I'd put quitting school as the last option, but if you do need to take time off to get your medical care sorted, there is absolutely no shame in doing that.

I don't have kids, I'm not going to tell you how to parent yours...I'd just ask that you put more effort. It seems to me like you tell them to do something, and when they don't, you just yell, or punish, and if that doesn't work you give up and consider yourself a "failure" - parenting is a process that is a constant learning experience. I'd suggest getting some parenting books...go to Borders and spend an hour there...so you can actually look at each of the books they have, skim a bit, and see what ones you think that you personally can incorporate into your parenting style. It's not one size fits all...some of them even contradict each other ;) But if you can find an advice book that will give you advice to enhance your own parenting style, rather than try to start from scratch, I think it will really help in the long run.

I've seriously refrained from making judgmental comments, because I think you really do need help. You should also look into joining an online community for parents of preteens/teenagers (you have nearly 3000 posts on an online community for your M/s relationship, don't you think your relationship with your kids deserves at least twice as many posts as that??) where you can talk to other women in a forum specifically designed for parenting, or kids with behavior issues, or whatever, so that when you do take the little baby steps forward with your kids you can post there and get some well deserved hugs from the women you've made friends with.

I don't know if this is a good site or not...but it's a big one and I'm sure there are enough women there that you'll find at least one or two to bond with ;)

http://www.parentingforums.org/forum.php

They also have a specific sub-forum for step-parenting, as well as one for adolescence.

I really, really, really hope you read my post and take it to heart, because if I wrote all this genuine from the heart advice shit instead of just snarking and you ignore it I shall be quite put out.

< Message edited by imperatrixx -- 7/6/2011 2:56:46 AM >

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 3:39:02 AM

HeatherMcLeather

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quote:

So i am not assuming, can you quote the post as a whole of what you are referring to. The one sentence you quoted isn't enough for me to make the connection of when you said -

Well, if you click on the little name in the bottom right of my post it will take you to the post I replied to.

Kalikshama nailed it in post#261: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3754852

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 4:08:58 AM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

I choose to go back to school it is a passion of mine. And i dont see that ever stopping, if i was forced, well it would not be good. So what do i do? Buck up and take it all until i break, or try and get this house back in order. See it was easy when i wasnt going to school, i had the house the kids and Master, did rather well, holding back the pain...the real problem was i became seriously depressed, imagine winter, never leaving your pjs much less putting on makeup and fixing my hair. I knes I had to go back for ME, yes i said it ME! So im working on who will do what with what , as far as the house goes. Its pretty cut and dry really, it works or it doesnt. Read what you want into it, but it is what it is.

Tammy,
If this meant you spent much of your time indoors feeling depressed and then becoming achier, then I suggest you go to a conventional Dr and getting your Vitamin D levels drawn.
Low D levels can cause depression and body pain.
Also, for me personally, I find magnesium helpful with muscle pain.

As for getting the house in order: why it that a you thing: shouldn't that be a unit thing: you and Art?

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 7/6/2011 4:10:51 AM >

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 5:24:57 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

Tammy to me it seems you have three choices.
1. Leave school.
2. Move back home.
3. Compromise on house rules

You forgot the most important rule of parenting:
4. ENFORCING house rules

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 5:50:33 AM

AlwaysLisa

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quote:

the real problem was i became seriously depressed, imagine winter, never leaving your pjs much less putting on makeup and fixing my hair.

You could also be dealing with SAD, (Seasonal Affective Disorder), very common in the PNW or anywhere that the winters are long, gray and devoid of sun. Doctors up here recommend sun lamps.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 6:15:14 AM

imperatrixx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Tammy to me it seems you have three choices.
1. Leave school.
2. Move back home.
3. Compromise on house rules

You forgot the most important rule of parenting:
4. ENFORCING house rules

Oh I completely agree parents should enforce the rules on the kids, I was talking more about her master's rules for her of having the house immaculate when he gets home.

I think it's a goal to work toward but with her health already poor she shouldn't be constantly beating herself up over her failure to do this, she should just be working toward making it happen, gradually.

Parenting skills don't come overnight and all.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 6:46:09 AM

imperatrixx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

So i really don't get this JUDGMENT against Arturas for allowing his 22 year old daughter to live at home (as MANY 20 somethings are nowadays due to the economy) or the negative judgment because he is allowing her boyfriend to stay there when he isn't working.

HOWEVER, that being said, both of these kids should be helping around the house when they are there. It sounds like they are.

For me at least it's because of the reason. If Arturas had posted that they were staying there because they're both good, responsible kids who are having a rough time lately and he wanted to help them get back on their feet, I would have applauded his generosity.

What he said was:
"I let her boyfriend live here because she would stay with him out on the street homeless selling blood for money if I had not."

Which makes it sound like the daughter was emotionally manipulating him by threatening to make dangerously bad life choices for herself if her father didn't take her boyfriend in. That, I have less respect for.

Now, it might be that in actuality his primary motive was to help both of them out of generosity, but that's not the picture he painted at all. And the reason it calls his parenting into question was, well, because he raised a young woman who thinks that instead of staying with her parents so she has an address, phone line, and shower while she looks for work, would instead voluntarily live on the street and sell her own blood just so she can be physically near her boyfriend if her father had decided not to take him in.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 6:52:48 AM

imperatrixx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

His daughter and boyfriend need something similar. why are they doing yard work when there is the housework to be done and no one to do it? I would rather have the house vacuumed rather than the lawn mowed, wouldn't you?

I loved every single bit of your post (especially the parenting tips) but this just really stuck out.

Tammy, you do have 2 children to take care of, but you also have 2 adults in the house. The boyfriend has a part time job, from what I understand the daughter is unemployed. So you have an adult, at home, all the time except when she's going for a job interview.

There is absolutely no reason why she can't keep the house clean. Her boyfriend is paying you rent...hire her as a "maid" for the house, and give her half of what the boyfriend pays in rent as a "salary" which she should appreciate because, well, she's unemployed.

If it were my house, that would be a condition of living there. But it seems like the situation you're dealing with is that her father is too scared his precious little baby will run away to live on the street and sell her own blood.

Really though, with a healthy, able, unemployed adult living at the house, there's no reason it should be a mess. It's such an obvious solution...my older post was before I'd read this whole thread and gotten more details.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 7:07:51 AM

AlwaysLisa

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quote:

For me at least it's because of the reason. If Arturas had posted that they were staying there because they're both good, responsible kids who are having a rough time lately and he wanted to help them get back on their feet, I would have applauded his generosity.

What he said was:
"I let her boyfriend live here because she would stay with him out on the street homeless selling blood for money if I had not."

Which makes it sound like the daughter was emotionally manipulating him by threatening to make dangerously bad life choices for herself if her father didn't take her boyfriend in. That, I have less respect for.

Now, it might be that in actuality his primary motive was to help both of them out of generosity, but that's not the picture he painted at all. And the reason it calls his parenting into question was, well, because he raised a young woman who thinks that instead of staying with her parents so she has an address, phone line, and shower while she looks for work, would instead voluntarily live on the street and sell her own blood just so she can be physically near her boyfriend if her father had decided not to take him in.

Thank you, for understanding. That was how I read the statement as well, hence my comments.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 7:09:11 AM

tammystarm

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I greatly appreciate all post, i really do. But remember this is fibro, fibro is like a fast food combo, it comes with sides. It comes with depression. It doesnt have to be seasonal or any other form. It automatically comes with it, well at least that is the side my body chose. I appreciate it again and please take no offense to this..... but part of the fibro stigma is just that everyone is always saying you depressed because of the season, or this or that.... or if only you exercised more.... drank this or ate that..... Sure all of these things works, but its assuming i dont already do them, yanno? When fibromyalgia specialist have to just "throw things out there and try them" than you know your dealing with your own unique special thing (Whoo fucking hooo!)..... just food for thought. Kinda like all the grandmas giving a pregnant girl mega advice on pregnancy how to take care of the baby etc.... she has to do it on her own, not that she doesnt appreciate the input, but its her own special baby. My special baby just happens to have 20 heads !!!

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 7:16:02 AM

AlwaysLisa

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Ok, a question for those dealing with Fibro.....what comes first? Does depression trigger an attack, or do the attacks trigger depression? There isn't a whole lot on the subject that I can find via the internet as to whether depression is a bi product, or cause.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 7:18:14 AM

tammystarm

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Usually and as i said above everyones is different but for me, its the exhaustion fatigue and pain that triggers the depression. As i said i once was at the top of my game, i had it all and a very busy schedule always, and i loved it! so to wake up one day and be unable to move and then the next day and next...things got worse ....... well imagine..

BUT that is just most of the time, sometimes maybe the depression kicks in first.... thanks never really even thought of that until now.

This is what i do know;
for me;
it was working way too many hours as a deep tissue massage therapist always over booking myself, meanwhile my home life was starting to crumble, but i stayed in denial, i started hurting alot but thought everyday ill get one of the girls to work on this later and see my chiropractor, then i get a call i ignored it all day (it was from my childrens ex...so nothing ever was good there), the phone kept ringing and ringing, still ignoring it, i went and worked on one of the rams football players (yeah sorry that was a brag....it was freaking cool to work on a celeb!) and i felt the extreme burning pain on my right rotator cuff... finished the massage somehow..... then finally grabbed the phone in between cleaning the table and preparing for my next client all the while putting biofreeze on my shoulder, and there was the call... the call i knew i was always gonna get (and hence probably why i didnt answer it all day), my childrens father a man i had been with for 10 yrs was dead. After that things got blurry... pain got worse.... and i can remember not being able to find things, remember dates (think of a stoke victom) my speech was even off. Weird stuff happened constantly, my hip went out and i was using a cane.... i was only a little over 30yrs old. SO WOW WTF, how did this happen to me.... i felt i took great care of myself.....
before i could get into my doctors, i started going through my symptoms and my books on diseases and came to my attention that this just might be ME..... or aka fibromyaglia chronic fatique syndrome, etc. My doctor whom i adored, said she really wished she could put me in the hospital and put me down for about a month and let my body reset itself... i agree... to this day i still agree.

So waaah waaah waaaah
I have everything from severe migraines, to extreme muscle pain, to swelling, to IBS, depression, sometimes confusion , spasms, weird weird weird stuff! but its a part of me, and ill keep searching for that magically cure combo that will work for me, in the meantime, anyone up for some spring cleaning?

< Message edited by tammystarm -- 7/6/2011 7:31:56 AM >

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 7:50:13 AM

tammystarm

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FIBROMYALGIA
not same shit different day
its a mixed bag of nuts!
(grand pupah of nuts)

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 8:13:07 AM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

When you take the long way home, and sit in your car before you come in ya know you have a problem.

There ya go.

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RE: Fibro, school, house of 6 - 7/6/2011 8:19:56 AM

tammystarm

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But im not hiding from my family, i love them all so much. Its that im in pain im exhausted and now i have to go in with a smile on my face and here a hundred "moms" and "tams" and be everything i can be to those i love the most. I need balance.
My friend and i were discussing this issue about my kids not doing what they were told to do and i was at my limit. For days i talked to them, the night before i layed out their plan of action with a time limit, and reminded them the next morning i reinterated it and got there yes ma'ams.... then i get home and nothing is done! AGGGGHHHH first thing i did was pull the plug on the electronics, laptops, cellphones etc. the next was to make them do their chores and more, meanwhile i am having a conversation with my friend on facebook who remembers my mom well who said;
Tammy you need to channel your mom.
I said shit! thanks for the nightmares, now ill pee the bed!
Then i said, yeah the problem with this is, my mom would have smacked the cop who came to arrest her for smacking us, and well im terrified of the cops! lol

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