LafayetteLady
Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
quote:
ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Speaking of which.....everyone talking about how this employee (or others) could bring a lawsuit for harassment or hostile work environment against the employer, you are dead wrong. The employee has an obligation to report unacceptable behavior to the proper person in the company (boss, HR department, whoever) and give them an opportunity to correct the problem. If that step is missed, you aren't going to get diddly squat in a lawsuit against the employer because you didn't make them aware of a problem, therefore there is no case.
That's not true at all. In a case like this, the employee would likely quit rather than report it. He could then file a lawsuit. And he would probably win.
His argument would be that he didn't feel that he had any recourse, since the person hazing him was also his boss (in many blue collar environments, there is no formal HR Department to go to). He'd say that his peers were all enjoying it, so he didn't feel like he could complain without alienating all of his co-workers. (In cases like this, it is common for the victim to feel that they can't tell anyone without becoming an outcast).
His co-workers (and former employees of the company) would be called in to testify about how long this type of thing has been going on. It would inevitably come out that this type of thing has "always happened". And the employer would lose.
Moreover, the employee who brought suit wouldn't be satisfied simply by having the person who hazed him fired. Nor would he likely be satisfied to merely get his job back. Nope, he'd inevitably want to sue for money (from the company, not the fired employee).
It may not be like this in other parts of the world, but the United States is the most litigious country on the planet. Everybody wants to sue. And they never seem to want justice. They simply want money. I guess that's the American way.
You're right, the US is a highly litigious place, however, that doesn't mean that every suit that gets filed makes it to a court room. Many civil suits (which this would be) are going to get dismissed on the merits of the case.
I understand that you apparently are a business owner and as such, are reasonably concerned about such things happening. But I bet you couldn't site one case where something like this happened, the employee quit without a word to their boss as to why and then brought suit and got it to court and actually won.
Feeling like you can't tell anyone is not going to fly as a defense. I may not own my own business, but I worked in the legal field for twenty years, so I know what happens in lawsuits.
Again, I never said that the OP's behavior was correct, but that doesn't mean that his "victim" has a valid lawsuit. As litigious as the US is, even with the ability for anyone to file a civil suit against anyone, it still doesn't mean that they have a case that would win.
Further, the whole concept of filing suit with money being the desired outcome doesn't fly either. In an employment suit, a plaintiff can't simply say, "I want to money for what they did to me." Even though you can not want your job back, it doesn't leave you with big damages to seek as an award. Civil cases have a different level of proof than criminal cases. Of course, everyone is going to say how the proof necessary in a civil case is preponderance of the evidence, which is a lower standard, therefore making it easier to win. However, that isn't the case. In an employment suit, the plaintiff's first damages are lost wages. Lost wages only last until the plaintiff finds other employment. Since these types of suits are lengthy and tend to last a couple of years, the plaintiff will have to find other employment. If they take a lesser paying job, they will have to prove that they couldn't fiind employment at the previous rate, not just go from making $20 an hour to minimum wage without that justification. That is referred to as "actual damages."
The other damages (what you are talking about) are "punitive damages," what the general public refers to as pain and suffering. The plaintiff needs to show how they suffered from what happened. How do they do that? Well, let me assure you, simply saying, "it maded me feel 'x'," isn't going to cut it in a court room. That's where going to your employer is going to be important. A judge isn't going to give someone money just because the plaintif/victim says they didn't feel comfortable going to their employer about the situation. And while it is possible for it to be a jury trial, the reality is that while you might be entitled to a jury, it is a higher risk for the plaintiff. Juries don't know the law, and when the jury instructions are given, they are very limited to provide for this lack of knowledge, so a lot of civil cases will simply go straight to a judge who knows the law. Without proof of pain and suffering, i.e. reports from therapists, you didn't meet the burden of proof.
We live in such a litigious society becase people think they can sue about anything. Well, they can. But that doesn't mean that there is a lawyer who is going to take your case (they have to be able to make money from it), and it doesn't mean that after all is said and done the plaintiff will win his case. In the US if you lose, you still have your legal costs to pay. So in a situation like this, the potential for a big money award doesn't exist making filing a lawsuit a most costly avenue and sadly, in most cases, is going to take more time and money than the "victim" is going to get. This isn't a clear cut case where behavior continued for a long period of time.
So you can own all the business you want, but unless one of them is a law firm, you are mistaken as to what is likely to be the outcome.
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