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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

But Mistress has a different social connotation, and you would end up standing in court explaining that you're into BDSM, the guy (or woman) you'd be suing could simply play stupid and say "What? BDSM? Ewww no, I don't do that...." How could you show that she does? I mean we don't go round and give our CM handles out to the vanilla world or advertise our hobbies - in fact I am keeping mine a secret because it's simply nobody's business but mine.

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ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

So you can own all the business you want, but unless one of them is a law firm, you are mistaken as to what is likely to be the outcome.

What you’ve said doesn't tally with what I've observed from working with american companies, over the years. And (I’ve just totalled) almost a third of my working life has been spent working with american owned or based companies.

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There are enough ambulance-chasers and arm-chancers more than happy to bring actions at a drop of a hat, and while US employment law often doesn't protect the individual to quite the same extent that UK and EU law does (even allowing for specific areas like Atlanta and the like, which tone down their employee laws to attract companies), the results can be just as damaging - I worked for a large global legal firm some years ago and one of the amazing stats they came out with was that more established (i.e. mature, not start-up) US-based SMEs go out of business due to legal action, from customers or employees (and they specifically cited employees) than from theft or other criminal activity. The second most common cause was employee fraud, which amazed me at the time, as I blithely assumed customer criminality would top the lists.

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Once you get out of the SME bracket into playing with the big boys it's taken even more seriously; the induction course a friend recently went through with a big US corporate was 6 days long, and spent a 2 and half days on "workplace behaviours" (the loose category for the sort of crap the OP outlined). Basically, US companies are more up to speed on the direct costs of poor management (being sued, legal contest fees, etc.), as well as the indirect ones (massive impact on reputation, difficulty in hiring qualified staff*) than are their UK counterparts. That's for a good reason - corporates don't invest millions in programmes unless there's a very good, money-driven, reason for it. Which makes me doubt your assertion that US companies don’t fear being sued by their employees even more – if the risk wasn’t there, and imminent, then the big boys wouldn’t gear up for it. They're not into wasting their own time, and more especially, money.

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*these are the real killers; the not inconsiderable cost of defending one or more lawsuits is buttons compared to the loss of reputation a company can suffer, and hiring quality trades (blue or white collar) can also become a nightmare on a local level if rumours persist. A very well known corporate started life in one US state and actually had to move base locations in order to escape their reputation, so badly starved of quality staff did they become, and that's not a rarity either. I can also think of an industry-leading software company in the UK that had little choice but to up sticks too, after a period where their then management layer absolutely pissed on everyone. Reputation is something that takes an age to build, but a comparatively short time to destroy.

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There is a world of difference between what is accepted in an office and what is accepted in a garage.

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Things are a bit different on our side of the pond, you have to follow procedures, but if the person can show without reasonable doubt that a complain would have caused more harassment it's different, also if the smacked guy has a diary where he noted each incident, that would be considered proof, now if he goes to his doctor and gets a sick note for anxiety the action has caused him, the guy will have a very good case, if he's clever, the smack on the head also causes him quite a headache which he can't shake anymore....

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Now he might not get a lot of money for it, but depending where you are, a court reporter might get wind of the case and this is ideal front page material for a slow news day, consider the damage the business will have. If it's garage, it will be "Joe, we don't bring our car there anymore, haven't you heard, they abuse the staff and hit them..." That would actually be the main concern for any business, not the money the guy might or might not get.

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Here, the local newspapers look through the filings, which are public record.  A court reporter getting wind and reporting it would lose their job (interestingly enough).  Court employees are held to a higher standard than civilians.  Even on a slow news day, the article would be buried somewhere, not front page news.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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I assume you are making the distinction of "sexual harassment" in the scenario where the behavior was against you, a female.  Because in no way, shape or form, does the OP's behavior meet the criteria for "sexual" harassment.  In a different business, hostile work environment or plain harassment, yes.  Sexual harassment would be a long shot even for a female.

Are you saying that men cannot sexually harass each other?

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP


I have to think she meant a reporter, not a court reporter.

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because I lived in a small town and doing something like that could easily get me blackballed from working in the food and beverage industry where I lived, I could get the tag "sue happy"... and I was young, so I found another job and I quit

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It is humorous for me to note I have heard these cases in my life as coming from men leveled at women, so the stereotypes of which gender commits which offense and who it is directed at can be misleading.

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Once again, and bold so you get the concept...

I do NOT agree with this OP's behavior, but since I actually AM in the US and well versed in US law, not just consulting for some US law firm on an unrelated matter, I actually KNOW how the laws in the country work.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Depending on the way a company's disciplinary action policy is written, you don't have to give an employee an opportunity to "correct" a number of behaviors.  Anything they have outlined as terms for immediate dismissal is covered in these areas and assaulting another employee is generally in that category.  There doesn't have to be an injury and the employee doesn't necessarily have to seek medical care.  (Though, as an employer, if the incident happened on paid time on company property, you have to offer it.  Even if they decline, you'll still have someone, like Me, sitting in an office filling out an incident report form to state that it was offered and the employee turned it down.)

You *might* be able to pull the sexual harassment bit out of it, even between two men, *if* the employee took the "you don't have to call Me Master" bit as a reference to the trainer's interest in BDSM as a sexual practice and the new employee interpreted it as being sexually propositioned.

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

A friend of mine who lives in Germany has told me that in Germany, such an employee would have to also bear your legal costs for filing a frivolous suit.  That is one way to deter people from being overly litigious. 

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

In the United States it is not all that hard to sue people for sexual harassment, and the law often deals with the perception of the victim. In other words if some guy went around using BDSM terminology he could be sued for creating a sexually hostile environment. Depending on if the settlement would be larger for the person suing, it might well be worth doing.

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

Sort of. Some mild kinky flirting. Things like "That's a nice outfit, know what would make it even better? Handcuffs." or "You look good enough to tie up" or "I have a gag that would match that blouse.". Things like that.

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ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

One of the students said "A democracy is when Miss Sunshine has had her coffee.  A dictatorship is when she hasn't."  Smart kids.