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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 9:56:29 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Good for them. Lets see how quick they sing that tune if Federal grants loans and scholarships are pulled because they in effect promote their religion.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 10:15:37 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Kind of a stretch there, fl.


How so?


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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 10:40:41 AM   
Musicmystery


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As you were.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 11:12:06 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Good for them. Lets see how quick they sing that tune if Federal grants loans and scholarships are pulled because they in effect promote their religion.


Why would they be pulled?

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 11:20:22 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Sorry, I just assumed that you were replying to that statement within the context of this thread, since the quote you replied to about Mennonites putting God before country most likely had something to do with the OP about the Mennonite college placing its religious outlook over the national anthem.

If you were just comparing some random theoretical Mennonites with the religious right, I apologize, but you really shouldn't go off topic like that.

Okay, I apologize for jumping on you. Actually, I wasn't contemplating the issue in the narrow context of the OP or even as narrowly as some "theoretical Mennonites." I don't care who does it. The point of my post was, and is, that this idea of putting "God before country" is a radical business; it can be invoked to justify fucking anything. While it may sound vaguely sweet and sincere and pure of heart, what it amounts to in its unvarnished reality is placing your personal notion of what "God wants" above the principles and ideals embodied in the Constitution of the United States.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/3/2011 12:04:15 PM >

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 11:40:06 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Good for them. Lets see how quick they sing that tune if Federal grants loans and scholarships are pulled because they in effect promote their religion.


Why would they be pulled?


Read again, please. there is a key word in there.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 11:52:32 AM   
kat321


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Good for them. Lets see how quick they sing that tune if Federal grants loans and scholarships are pulled because they in effect promote their religion.


Shall we infer from this statement that all federally backed student loans should not go to schools that have and promote thier religious affiliations? (Brigham Young, Notre Dame, Southern Methodist U, Duke, Georgetown, DePaul, American, Baylor.....to name a few.) 


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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 11:55:57 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kat321

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Good for them. Lets see how quick they sing that tune if Federal grants loans and scholarships are pulled because they in effect promote their religion.


Shall we infer from this statement that all federally backed student loans should not go to schools that have and promote thier religious affiliations? (Brigham Young, Notre Dame, Southern Methodist U, Duke, Georgetown, DePaul, American, Baylor.....to name a few.) 





Yes. And preferably all schools that have no religious affiliation as well, since the Federal government has no consitutional role in education to begin with. But certainly any school that believes that it owes no recognition to the trough it feeds at.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 12:14:15 PM   
kat321


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Yes. And preferably all schools that have no religious affiliation as well, since the Federal government has no consitutional role in education to begin with. But certainly any school that believes that it owes no recognition to the trough it feeds at.


At least you are consistent in your application.

I am wondering how you ascertain whether one is 'feeding at the trough without paying recognition'.  Is singing the national anthem at a sporting event more important that sending graduates into public service (Peace Corps, ROTC, community outreach organizations, charitable work, etc.)? 

By the way, I have no connection to Goshen, nor do I support (or not support) their academic or religious curriculum.  I also don't know the number of Goshen grads that go into any of the above.... but I do question whether singing the national anthem is an important factor as compared to what any student/graduate might do that can be considered giving 'recognition' to their country.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 12:19:33 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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Status: offline 		I am kind of torn. But, I gotta defend their right to make the decision to stop playing it.

If it causes them any hits in the pocketbook, I will be anxious to see if their convictions stay as strong though.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 1:12:10 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kat321

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Yes. And preferably all schools that have no religious affiliation as well, since the Federal government has no consitutional role in education to begin with. But certainly any school that believes that it owes no recognition to the trough it feeds at.


At least you are consistent in your application.

I am wondering how you ascertain whether one is 'feeding at the trough without paying recognition'.  Is singing the national anthem at a sporting event more important that sending graduates into public service (Peace Corps, ROTC, community outreach organizations, charitable work, etc.)? 

By the way, I have no connection to Goshen, nor do I support (or not support) their academic or religious curriculum.  I also don't know the number of Goshen grads that go into any of the above.... but I do question whether singing the national anthem is an important factor as compared to what any student/graduate might do that can be considered giving 'recognition' to their country.



The issue isnt what the students do, its what school policy is.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 2:39:39 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I am kinda tired of that song myself.    America the beautiful would be better. 


I don't think you understand just how important the Battle of Baltimore was for a number of reasons, the chief of which, is that had the British succeeded in capturing and occupying the Port of Baltimore, it would have surely dealt a death-blow to the Union as it existed at the time. New England would have surely split and it is quite likely, that Great Britain would have established a permanent position, embolden their own plans to take Florida from the Spanish and then likely build an overwhelming force in which to take New Orleans.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 2:41:32 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Good for them. Lets see how quick they sing that tune if Federal grants loans and scholarships are pulled because they in effect promote their religion.


They may not take any. There are a number of small private colleges that take zero Federal dollars.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 2:49:24 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Good for them. Lets see how quick they sing that tune if Federal grants loans and scholarships are pulled because they in effect promote their religion.


They may not take any. There are a number of small private colleges that take zero Federal dollars.



Its not just direct dollars, but subsidies, loan guarantees etc. There is virtually no college that doesnt have some student receiving some sort of Federal support.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 2:52:56 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I am kinda tired of that song myself.    America the beautiful would be better. 


I don't think you understand just how important the Battle of Baltimore was for a number of reasons, the chief of which, is that had the British succeeded in capturing and occupying the Port of Baltimore, it would have surely dealt a death-blow to the Union as it existed at the time. New England would have surely split and it is quite likely, that Great Britain would have established a permanent position, embolden their own plans to take Florida from the Spanish and then likely build an overwhelming force in which to take New Orleans.



Which doesn't speak to the song sucking and having to listen to some bimbo mangle it even worse with her stylistic interpretation before I can watch any damn baseball or football game.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 3:45:39 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Here is the problem with the religious right, it isn't that they have their own ideals they live by, it is that they want force the rest of us to live by them too



Hope you are sitting down JO. We totally agree on this issue. Although the religious right are not the only group to try to force everyone to live by their ideals, that is the basis of this country....freedom.

Goshen is a private religious college. I'm actually surprised they have a sports program. Jehovah Witnesses must stand, but are not obligated to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools. Should they be kicked out of public schools (which receive federal funding)?

What most people forget is that freedom isn't just for those that agree with them. It is for everyone. I would love to prevent the KKK, the Hammerskins or the right to lifers from protesting. I hate what they stand for. Hating what they stand for doesn't give us the right to step on their freedom, as long as they do it peacefully without breaking any laws. Those groups can exercise their right to keep their lives "racially pure," or never have an abortion. We don't stomp on their freedom, they don't stomp on ours.

Goshen is a private religious school. They aren't preventing their students from registering for the draft or joining the military. They aren't burning flags. They simply don't want to sing a song. A SONG! They aren't the only school who doesn't either, check out the link. Other schools have taken the same stance. No one is griping about them.

Must have been a slow news week.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 3:48:36 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

I respect the fact that Mennonites put God before country

I don't respect that at all. It's not about country. It's about principles and ideals, the very ones that enable them to practice their religion freely. To place your personal religious views above those principles and ideals is to adopt exactly the same stance toward them as that being promoted by the Christian Right.

K.





  I could agree with your point assuming the premiss is correct.

  Maybe to them it's more simple minded and the song is not about principles and ideas but the description of a battle  "rockets and bombs and oh the horror and violence",  and all these guys are just a bunch of  Christian turn the other cheek types who never heard of a sword.




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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 3:53:52 PM   
lovmuffin


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   They never used to sing it but then they started singing it but then decided not to sing it anymore. I would be curious to know, since when did they never used to sing it ?






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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 4:07:41 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Yes. And preferably all schools that have no religious affiliation as well, since the Federal government has no consitutional role in education to begin with


How many kids do you have left to go through college WillBe?



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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 4:18:22 PM   
lovmuffin


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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am not complaining, it is their first amendment right to sing whatever they like.

I think the Fox News drones parrot whatever nonsense their flag waving audience will like



I'm not complaining either but there isn't enough context in the article to accuse FOX of being drone parrots.

Did some one from Goshen specifically say  "it goes against the school’s pacifist principals." or did FOX change the wording ?

Who was it on FOX that said this stuff ?

Was this said by an anchor or was it in debate between 2 opposing viewpoints ?



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