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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 4:23:38 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
I could agree with your point assuming the premiss is correct...

Maybe to them it's more simple minded and the song is not about principles...

I was commenting on the idea of putting God before country, independently of songs and/or Mennonites. However, your kind speculation appears to arise from having failed to read the article:

That decision brought heavy criticism from Mennonites who oppose playing the anthem, believing it puts country before God.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/3/2011 4:37:16 PM >

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 4:53:15 PM   
BKSir


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Status: offline 		It also glorifies the war, which goes against their pacifist views. But whatever. So they don't want to sing a song. Pardon me if I'm the only one here who is thinking "Whoop de fuckin' doo".

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 4:56:49 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I don't respect that at all. It's not about country. It's about principles and ideals, the very ones that enable them to practice their religion freely. To place your personal religious views above those principles and ideals is to adopt exactly the same stance toward them as that being promoted by the Christian Right.



And if the Christian Right maintained the same attitude about affecting social and political discourse, I would probably not feel they were all that bad. The fact is that Mennonites and Amish lead an encapsulated existence in most aspects of their life and have for hundreds of years. Most of the Amish and Mennonites alive today are descendants of people who settled America before it was the United States.
    I mean, I see what you're saying and get the principal, but like how do you draw lines with these people, they're from a way different swatch of christian cloth than the 'so-called' christians that sprang up after the formation of of the country when it was an economic opportunity to do so.
   And given the principal conveyed how do ya reconcile it when as has happened at various times Native Americans take down the flag (Never mind getting them to sing the anthem). What do ya tell them? "Get out of my country"?
  Take John Trudel and the sentiments expressed in "Cry Your Tears". This man is pretty deeply religious, clearly not 'christian' or even a little close to 'right wing'. But he puts the old faith of his own ancestors way before the country. Back when he was young, he did his time in the navy complete with a tour of Vietnam. And yet, if you tell this man to put the spiritual path of his people behind allegiance to a flag that was out front of the troops that rounded his people up and gave them a spiritual beating that would last em almost 200 years, I guess the advice would be good luck and try not to set your expectations too high.
   Does their attitude make me resent them or associate em with the religious aspects of the world that ARE fucked? Nope.



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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 6:03:44 PM   
kat321


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The issue isnt what the students do, its what school policy is.


What in the Constitution allows the government to require a policy in which a private institution must play the national anthem, especially if said anthem infringes upon religious practice? 

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 6:24:34 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kat321

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The issue isnt what the students do, its what school policy is.


What in the Constitution allows the government to require a policy in which a private institution must play the national anthem, especially if said anthem infringes upon religious practice? 



What in the constitution allows the government to funnel money to private institutions?

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 6:28:22 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: kat321

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The issue isnt what the students do, its what school policy is.


What in the Constitution allows the government to require a policy in which a private institution must play the national anthem, especially if said anthem infringes upon religious practice? 



What in the constitution allows the government to funnel money to private institutions?


I remember Bush's faith based initiatives... for or against?


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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 6:32:08 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: kat321

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The issue isnt what the students do, its what school policy is.


What in the Constitution allows the government to require a policy in which a private institution must play the national anthem, especially if said anthem infringes upon religious practice? 



What in the constitution allows the government to funnel money to private institutions?


I remember Bush's faith based initiatives... for or against?



against, obviously

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 6:38:04 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		Federal school loans should be offered to whatever school is accredited. Loans are not the same as grants. Loans are repaid and the interest is supposed to sustain the program for future students. As with any loan, there are risks, but the risks of student loans staying in default is lessened by the fact you cannot claim bankruptcy with student loans, they follow you forever and ever and ever

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 6:41:27 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Federal school loans should be offered to whatever school is accredited. Loans are not the same as grants. Loans are repaid and the interest is supposed to sustain the program for future students. As with any loan, there are risks, but the risks of student loans staying in default is lessened by the fact you cannot claim bankruptcy with student loans, they follow you forever and ever and ever


Not the Federal governments place. Anything youve said can be done at the state level where it belongs.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 6:54:03 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		The problem you have is not with a private school getting funds, it is with the federal government distributing them... you should start a thread about that topic because this one is about a private school choosing not to sing the anthem before sporting events... it is not about the dispersement of loans through the federal government

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 6:57:09 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

The problem you have is not with a private school getting funds, it is with the federal government distributing them... you should start a thread about that topic because this one is about a private school choosing not to sing the anthem before sporting events... it is not about the dispersement of loans through the federal government


1) learn to spell
2) it is about a religious institution getting funds from the US government and their actions, so yes, DISBURSEMENT of funds to them is totally relevant.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 7:05:40 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		Well sue me for drinking and posting on a holiday weekend...

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 7:40:00 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

it is about a religious institution getting funds from the US government and their actions,


Where in the OP was there a mention of federal funds going to schools? Since I posted the OP, I think I know what it says, and there is nothing in there about college loans

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 8:10:26 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Well sue me for drinking and posting on a holiday weekend...


If someone could be sued for the level of thought in their posts you'd support the Long Beach legal community.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 8:16:07 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Well sue me for drinking and posting on a holiday weekend...


If someone could be sued for the level of thought in their posts you'd support the Long Beach legal community.


Says the guy who thought this thread was about student loans


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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/3/2011 9:26:54 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Good for them. Lets see how quick they sing that tune if Federal grants loans and scholarships are pulled because they in effect promote their religion.


They may not take any. There are a number of small private colleges that take zero Federal dollars.



Its not just direct dollars, but subsidies, loan guarantees etc. There is virtually no college that doesnt have some student receiving some sort of Federal support.


Which is what is confusing me, willbe. Since when is playing the national anthem a requirement for those loans, grants or scholarship monies?

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/4/2011 2:15:58 AM   
imperatrixx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Which is what is confusing me, willbe. Since when is playing the national anthem a requirement for those loans, grants or scholarship monies?


Yeah that's what I want to know. I actually find that sort of thinking disturbing. That sort of knee jerk patriotism/nationalism to me has no place in a free democracy. Singing songs and waving flags is a parade show, sure it has meaning to some, but real love of country would be wanting a nation of educated, healthy, freethinking citizens. Not just monkeys who sing on cue.

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/4/2011 8:04:37 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

It also glorifies the war, which goes against their pacifist views. But whatever. So they don't want to sing a song. Pardon me if I'm the only one here who is thinking "Whoop de fuckin' doo".


Nope your not the only one.

I know this is such a shock because obviously it's the first time anyone has spoken about the song glorifying war.  No one has ever suggested the national anthem be changed or anything like that. 


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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/4/2011 8:20:51 AM   
Sanity


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It may have been someone being interviewed on FOX NEWS who said that, they like to present all sides to this sort of controversy. Or julias source may just be flaky as hell...

Here is a link to an actual FOX NEWS article on the matter, you will find that it is extremely balanced

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/07/national-anthem-banned-at-mennonite-colleges-sporting-events-sparking-outcry/

Far more balanced than julias source is



quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am not complaining, it is their first amendment right to sing whatever they like.

I think the Fox News drones parrot whatever nonsense their flag waving audience will like



I'm not complaining either but there isn't enough context in the article to accuse FOX of being drone parrots.

Did some one from Goshen specifically say  "it goes against the school’s pacifist principals." or did FOX change the wording ?

Who was it on FOX that said this stuff ?

Was this said by an anchor or was it in debate between 2 opposing viewpoints ?




< Message edited by Sanity -- 7/4/2011 8:21:25 AM >

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RE: Indiana college says no to national anthem - 7/4/2011 8:23:56 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

it is extremely balanced


How can anything be "extremely" balanced...balance is a condition of moderating extremes.

On the song issue...I'm in the "who gives a fuck" camp too.

And this time...FOX is just reporting the news, folks.

Yes, you can make an issue of deciding this was news. That's not surprising given FOX's demographic. Hey, if there's a break-through in home solar energy, it's more likely to run on NPR than FOX. It's how things work, and it doesn't spell bias at every turn.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/4/2011 8:26:04 AM >

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