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RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 4:23:23 AM   
0ldhen


Posts: 2221
Joined: 12/27/2010
From: Henhouse in Trolltopia, Harleyville USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis

If you're against laws about seat belt usage, why do you believe that minor children should have to wear them?


Mostly because minor children have yet to reach an age where they have done the research to make an informed choice of their own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


So again money trumps choice. How about this, you see me get flipped off a motorcycle or expelled from a car in a crash, just let me lay there and die. That is the way I want it. Keep your money. (in fact shoot me like a lame horse)

Can I fall in love with you ? I won't be much trouble, just hide some assets for me and we'll have a nice life, if you know how to cook that's a plus. Just don't ask me to ride on the roads. How do you feel about dirt biking ? I love to crash. I spent half my life trying

I told you all before that very few people want real freedom.


Yup, proud owner of a DNR/DNI here myself. If I am ever crippled to the point of not ever being able to ride the wind, to feel the rolling thunder captive between my legs......I hope somebody does me the kindness of shooting me.....

LMAO.......Termy...Thank you for the compliment. I know ya perved me, so you are well aware that only a confirmed lifelong biker could ever put up with me.

But yes, dirt rider here, it is how I learned to ride. I've been in love with two wheels since I was 12. And 154mph is the fastest I've ever went out in the fields, it was like the best sex you've ever had, only more exhilarating. Like the shirt says "Facing death every weekend is what keeps me alive".....it is a feeling that unless you've done it, you just cannot understand.

Small crashes are fun, you simply must have "I broke xyz" yarns for sitting around in the evenings.

And since everybody is sharing stories here about crashes and helmets, I'll share mine;

I was riding, yup, in a helmet, when I was cut off my another driver going the wrong way. Reacting quickly (good riders always look as far ahead as possible), I discovered I had 3 options, hit the other driver, hit a small crowd of pedestrians, kiss a big tree. I kissed the tree.

My so strongly endorsed here, DOT, 380 dollar full face helmet split right right up the middle, a long large shard of it pierced my chin, shattered my teeth, pierced my soft palate, another two inches and it would have pierced my brain rendering me a vegetable. Those of you who know me personally have seen the scar under my chin, as well as heard the story in full.

But for those of you whose main concern is "your" tax dollars paying for my hospital expenses, I was fully covered by MY insurance and MY pocketbook.

Funny, here it is the Fourth of July, the day our Forefathers declared, ENOUGH, we want the FREEDOM to decide, here we all are arguing over FREEDOM.

I personally feel a lot of stuff is illegal that should actually be a choice,seatbelts, drugs, helmets, smoking, the rights to marry who and how many at one time, sexual preference(remember folks, the gov says a lot of bdsm is still illegal), firearms, euthanasia, etc......

Walks off waiting for the lovely and talented Mods to move this down to P+R........

_____________________________

Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't.

Za'beeta Regal, Et Vogo O' Lurwadra'd Wyka Go Abosh Inunsey.

(in reply to LinnaeaBorealis)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 4:52:01 AM   
0ldhen


Posts: 2221
Joined: 12/27/2010
From: Henhouse in Trolltopia, Harleyville USA
Status: offline
One more post on here then I'm done, to those of you who for some reason keep commenting "don't expect us to feel bad for you" and" how fun/yucky/awful it is to scrape brains off a road or care for an accident victim.

First off, unless I missed it, did that guy ASK the newspapers to carry an article about him if he ever crashed? Did he ask any one of you to pity him? If he is like most bikers I know, he is thanking whatever gods he ended up with for the grace of dying doing what he loved.

How many bikers have you seen wearing patches/tee shirts/bumper stickers that read "If I crash, please cry for me"?

Do you think that because the news carried the story the biker wanted them to? Do their riding brothers mourn, hold events, yes they do, but most often they do not go seeking publicity for it, the events are by and for bikers.

Second, you keep grumbling about how YOU are being held accountable in some way or another for the injured party. That injured party probably also paid taxes, probably had insurance, so has probably covered paying for the cleanup of said brains. Next, why should anybody feel sorry for the folks doing the cleanup or care? Aren't they in the line of work they picked? Aren't they getting paid for it?

Third, a good fire hose should clean up brain splatter and or blood in a matter of minutes. Carrion eaters and bugs will clean the juicy bits out of the grass.

God and Goddess Bless America, keep it free, keep it proud. Happy Birthday USA.

< Message edited by 0ldhen -- 7/4/2011 5:30:53 AM >

_____________________________

Everyone crashes. Some get back on. Some don't.

Za'beeta Regal, Et Vogo O' Lurwadra'd Wyka Go Abosh Inunsey.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 8:05:17 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"and if they do not die they linger on forever and a day in brain injured states with the rest of us taking care of them "

Not me. Kill me.

I understand what you say, but that is not freedom. Almost nobody wants true freedom.

T^T


True "freedom"... nope, don't want it because most people around me couldn't handle the honor system. There are just enough rude inconsiderate pricks out there to make true freedom an impossibility. And since we have to live with others, it seems to me we should be respectful of them, including not squashing our heads like ripe mellons and expecting the other human beings walking around to scrape us up off the road... how rude!


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 8:35:15 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

a lot of stuff is illegal that should actually be a choice,... smoking


Um....smoking is legal.

(in reply to 0ldhen)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 9:00:29 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		are we talking tobacco?

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 9:36:59 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 0ldhen
2% of all motorcycle riders will have an accident, .29% of these will be single vehicle accidents, the rest involve cars/trucks
6.9% of all car drivers will have an accident
Only .0007% of MC riders will suffer a fatal accident,
While.0002% of cars will experience a fatal accident

And, "thinning the herd" hmm....how bout we just shoot the cage drivers who cause the majority of bike accidents?


Lots of statistics in your post. None to support the statement I italicized. I hear that sentiment bandied about by motorcyclists and their advocates often. Are there any statistics that actually support that statement?

2% of all motorcyclists will have an accident. That sounds reasonable. If I had to guess I would say that about 2% of the motorcyclists I see are the asshats who speed through traffic, weave through lanes and abuse emergency lanes like Termy's cousin did. I try to watch out for bikes. Hard to do when they are ripping through traffic exploiting the small size, quick acceleration and easy maneuverability of the vehicle. Harley riders are the best. They seem to ride in a sane fashion and seem to do all they can to let themselves be seen. Those crotch rocket rice burners are the worst.

The irony of that guy buying the farm during that protest is just too rich.


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"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." Sidney J. harris

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 9:52:15 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

are we talking tobacco?

Good point.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 9:53:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I hear that sentiment bandied about by motorcyclists and their advocates often.


It's the reason we have to have the law.

Obviously, those folks won't like it.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/4/2011 9:54:02 AM >

(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 9:57:50 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Imus..I am off to bed, so am not going to wade through shitloads of pages.. but from 2006: http://www.motorcycle-accidents.com/pages/stats.html

(which is what I had stored...)

ETA:  if you can get your hands on a copy of the Hurt Report, not only will it break down the stats on comments above, it will also tell you the stats on what colors of the bikes/cars/etc are involved, and will give you more concrete numbers of helmet/no helmet fatalties.. of course those numbers are only as good as the principalities doing the reporting, and as recent as the last compilation of the report....

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 7/4/2011 10:01:20 AM >

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 1:36:16 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 0ldhen


quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis

If you're against laws about seat belt usage, why do you believe that minor children should have to wear them?


Mostly because minor children have yet to reach an age where they have done the research to make an informed choice of their own.



I'm sorry that you chose to end my quote where you did. The rest of it read, "Don't you think that should be up to the parents?" Because my belief is that if you are going to go for all-out freedom from the government interfering, there should be some discussion of laws that keep parents from making decisions for their children based on their own belief systems. I'm not being snarky here, I'm being completely serious.

One case that comes to mind is parents who lost custody of their child because their religious beliefs precluded their seeking medical attention for her. To me that's wrong on so many levels, not the least of which is the church vs state argument.

I don't know if I would have used a safety belt for my children had there been such things available back then. I probably would have, but it's sort of moot & second-guessing. But if you use the safety equipment for the children but not for the parents, you run the risk of the child being traumatized by seeing their parent injured or killed because of not wearing the safety equipment themselves.

Yes, it's possible to be badly injured & even killed due to the safety equipment but that is so much more rare than when not using it, that it tends to almost be a fluke. I worked in the medical field for over 20 years & I saw far more people with much worse injuries due to the lack of safety equipment than because of it, believe me. And most of those injuries could have been completely prevented by using the safety equipment.

But I do agree that the government has no business making laws that require such usage.

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 2:38:42 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Um....smoking is legal.


Here's a funny for ya... I have accounts in Cambridge, ma where it's getting pretty fuzzy where you can smoke cigarettes. And about a year ago, I was hanging out on the grounds of MIT, where one of my clients has his office. He's an old Deadhead like me and a guy who basically is like me (mostly gave up weed when the kids came along). But it was his 54th birthday on this particular day and he'd just given his final and we decided to grab lunch.
   After enjoying a sandwiches in a quad on the grouds, he yanked out a little pipe and recited this ridiculously long name this strain he had on him and we took a few hits. Immediately a campus cop (MASPD Auxillary like on most MA campuses) and he say "Gentlemen, if I smell that again, I'm going to have to give you a ticket". We grinned and complied.
   About half an hour later I was at the Charles st. Platform and watched a guy placed under  arrest for smoking tobacco ... the world is a funny place these days.






Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 2:46:25 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline 		And here's the thing about that: apparently smoking dope gives you worse lung issues than smoking tobacco. Hmmmmm.....

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 2:47:38 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Those crotch rocket rice burners are the worst. "

I used to know one. He drove a car like an asshole as well. He fucked me on a deal and if he ever walks into this house he is going to lose a pinky finger. (please assume that is a joke)

Now about the cage drivers causing most of the cycle/auto accidents, one would have to be pretty hard headed not to accept that as common sense. Four wheelers are in an enclosure, AC on, talking on a cellphone and protected by seat belts and air bags. Bikers are out there vulnerable to all kinds of mishaps. Perhaps some of the crotch rocketeers are nuts, but most people have this instinct called self preservation. Some four wheelers think the are invulnerable even to big trucks carrying 10 tons of steel.

Having driven for near forty of my fifty years on this rock, I see what people do out there. Do you need statistics to prove that some people do not want to die ?

One member here had a sig line that went something like "Only a biker understands why a dog sticks it's head out the window on the highway". Any form of safety detracts from the experience. You could just wear body armour and put a big cast iron box on the seat, and install seatbelts and airbags, but that defeats the whole purpose.

My cousin should've been smarter than that. I don't care that he was running on the gravel brum, but the stupid fucker should have known not to go so fast. In fact on the highway in a car when I see lanes of traffic backed up I slow down because people are stupid enough to dart out of line. What's more their destination didn't change, they just wanted to get ahead of everyone else. I don't want to wreck our cars, I would much rather blow their head off, but people get pissed off when you do shit like that so forget it.

One question, and I am not being snarky here : Just where do you drive that you don't think four wheelers cause most of the accidents on the road ? I mean between autos and autos, autos and motorbikes as well as autos and trucks.

Wherever it is, is there some cheap land there ? I'll sell of my shit and maybe build. Damn, it would be like great, without all the shit going down in the city. I really am not kidding. My life has been the city, but I really am tired of it, all the congestion. I went to Walmart yesterday and it was like a fucking zoo. I do not go to zoos. I will not support the imprisonment of animals. Well at least the non humanoid kind.

T^T


(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 2:50:43 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"And here's the thing about that: apparently smoking dope gives you worse lung issues than smoking tobacco."

Not true, but even if it is, so what ?

Respond to that if you want my personal experience on the subject. This includes my own situation and that of many I know. those who smoke one or the other as well as both or neither. I don't buy school boughten statistics.

T^T

(in reply to LinnaeaBorealis)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 3:01:58 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline 		Hence the "apparently" in the statement. I've not actually looked up the stats on it. And here's the deal: a risk factor is just that, a risk factor statistically. And those change as more & different studies are done. I was raised by a scientist, so I know that the results of any study can be skewed to say whatever the researcher wants them to say. There is very little, if any, pure research ever done. There is always someone's bias involved.

So I don't have stats on that. Didn't know that I'd need to prove the statement. Which of course, can't actually be proved one way or the other. You can give me anecdotal evidence from your experience, but it's not going to have much more meaning that statistics from various research projects.

I drove a big truck & it wasn't only the stupid car drivers that I had to watch out for; some of the 2-wheelers did some really stupid shit. Like the time I put on my left turn signal to move into the next lane & as I started to move, I checked my mirror one more time & a group of bikers had decided to pull into that lane to pass me. That could have been extremely messy & you know whose fault it would have been? Not theirs.

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 3:08:09 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"One more post on here then I'm done, "

Yuo ain't getting out of it that easily !

Remember I am on your side here, but you quoted stats that compared car drivers' accident to fatal other accidents. We have to keep it real here.

"First off, unless I missed it, did that guy ASK the newspapers to carry an article about him if he ever crashed? "

Well some people here will require a full video of his life to serve as proof that he didn't, but between the well brained I think it's a reasonable assumption that he did not ask to be immortalized by the media. As such, why was it public ? You ARE NOT going to like the answer. It is the same with seat belts. If wearing a seat belt could've saved someone's life they might make it public. It is VERY rare that they would publicize anything about the instances when a seatbelt actually caused injuries, or exaserbated them. The reason for that can be troubling and I think what I am about to say is true. Nobody can prove it, but when something makes sense.......

When someone dies in an accident what happens ? If they have insurance the money is paid to people, beneficaries of a life insurance policy for example, or winners of a tort lawsuit because of the death. If they live however, doctors and hospitals get all the money. The same people who promote the use of seatbelts by the way. They want to work. They want to get paid to do their jobs, which does not happen when people die. Why would the helmet issue be any different ? Do I see a cnspiracy ? Not really, but people do act in their own best interests when concious.

Some really are dismayed by the carnage, but others are not. Take my word for it. Not everyone is Jesus Christ on this planet. Or Ghandi or Mother Theresa.

Maybe my view of the world is not all that rosy, but it took a long time to get here.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 3:25:51 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"You can give me anecdotal evidence from your experience, but it's not going to have much more meaning that statistics from various research projects."

Understood. About twenty years ago I was a front seat passenger in a 1976 Pontiac Grand Prix with a 455CID 4 barrell. We were cruising and boozing, but I wasn't driving. The limit was 35 and we were doing about 55. A guy pulls out of a driveway into the left lane on Brookpark road (SR 17). We were in the left lane and the guy was not moving fast, much under the speed limit while we were quite a bit over it. The driver changed to the right lane, but then so did the guy who pulled out in front of us. As he was doing so the left side of our car was deflected by the right side of his car sending us into one of those BIG telephone poles. I mean the big ones. Deceleration at it's finest. My head went almost through the windshield and I was picking pieces of glass out of my forehead for weeks or more. At the hospital they remarked that they figured I had learned my lesson about seat belts. I sure did.

When the somewhat irresistable force met the much more immovable object, people and items in the back seat ran into the back of the front seat in which I was seated. It moved almost a foot forward. It was enough that I couldn't reach the door handle to open the dorr. The backseat passenger had to do it.

With the seatbelt attached to the floor of the vehicle rather than the seat, that means my body would have been compressed to a much smaller volume in the area of the restraint device. The force required to bend the seat mount I would estimate as enough to break my pelvis. If you would like we can look for the numbers but I think it a fair assumption that I would have broken before the force that bent the metal. Yes that car was made out of metal. As such I would have probably suffered a broken pelvic bone. It could have been much worse, and a strong possibility exists that I would have been paralyzed, maybe permanently.

I'll take a smack in the head over that any day. MY CHOICE.

T^T


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 3:32:22 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
 

He's got that "Here, hit this" look on his face. I hope he inhaled and didn't waste it like Clinton. Fucking rich boys just want to waste all our good shit.

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 3:35:12 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline 		As I said in a much earlier post, the car accident that I was in where I wouldn't have been injured at all had I been wearing a seat belt wasn't enough to get me to wear one; it was that whole flying through the air believing I'd be dead when I stopped thing that did it for me. I just don't ever want to feel that feeling again in this life. MY CHOICE.

You know, we're really not on opposing sides here. I totally agree about the laws & letting others make their own choices as to risk. When I play with a Top, I do shit that other people kind of freak out about because they don't see at as a safe way to play. But it's MY CHOICE to play that way. I don't tell them they have to play like I do & I don't want them telling me I can't play how I like.

Kind of what I've been saying on this thread: don't tell me I shouldn't wear safety equipment & I won't tell you you have to. Deal???

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Carefull what you wish for,... - 7/4/2011 3:49:39 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Actually I said nothing of the sort. I just gave some of the "anecdotal evidence" which contradicts the establishment's view on it, which they impose arbitrarily.

Don't drive without buckling up, don't ride without a helmet, don't smoke, pot or tobacco. Don't take any risks.

But I luv me some risks. You see it differently fine. In fact if we happen to be driving along in Ohio and you are driving, I might wear the seatbelt if I don't think an accident is likely to occur. Reason ? Becaue they fine the driver for the passenger's non-compliance. I wouldn't want to cost you an extra hundred bucks. If I'm driving just don't distract me or throw shit out the windows. I have an anecdote about that, but I'll save it for another time.

Just as a point of reference forya, in the park one time I goaded a friend into "trying" to hit me, so I could show off and jump up on the hood of his car. I did but I bruised my ankle. I don't do that anymore. Later I thought, damn, if I would have broken his windshield he would be bitching up a storm. So fuckit.

T^T

(in reply to LinnaeaBorealis)
Profile   Post #: 40
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