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RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 12:27:24 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
who is "they" and by what authority do they require to know anyone's PRIVATE business


The "they" I was referring to is those persons who would target me to attempt to steal my firearm if that information was published. Do they have any right to that information? I don't believe so but if it would make the pacifists feel better to print it I have no objections. Maybe it would get the guns out of the hands of those 1400 felons in Florida and make Florida's licensing system that is already 99.9982 % effective in screening out felons even better.


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RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 12:38:31 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		there is a good way to do that.

assign one government agent to every person to guard and insure they have no gun.

The supreme court in essence said we the people means we the states.

Now I can understand that if you want to APPLY all those OLD assed definitions I post that everyone rejects.  I said many times that the only way this can make any sense is if the OLD definitions used under the king are adhered too.

remember feudalism also was a contract that the king [as state] abused, just like the in america where the State [as king] is abusing right now .

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/4/2011 12:39:28 PM >

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 12:43:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Didn't the founders say something to the effect that "Rights are bestowed on us by "GOD" and not "men?"

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RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 12:43:40 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Aren't you forgetting that magna charta thing you're fixated with? That stopped a lot of abuses.

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RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 12:44:41 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Didn't the founders say something to the effect that "Rights are bestowed on us by "GOD" and not "men?"


yeh but the guv does not recognize GOD in any court even though that is the orign of the "LAW".

rights have been converted to privileges and further converted [devolved] to "interests".





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/4/2011 12:45:51 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 12:46:22 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Just like the right of a monarch to do as he fookin' pleases under feudalism, in fact.

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RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 12:50:51 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Just like the right of a monarch to do as he fookin' pleases under feudalism, in fact.

no not at all
that is a misnomer
the monarch has always has his courtiers and precisely like to today they change the "meanings" of the words, OR change the words and retain the same meanings,  and they own the courts for show trials.  It fools anyone who is not educated in law and grammar. 

Remember the monarchy claimed they got rid of feudalism when THE CHANGED THE NAME from "subinfeadination" to "substitution" by grant that carries the heriditaments. 

In other words they changed the fucking name while it remains functionally the same, and claimed it was different. 

Hence nothing changed but the names.

Sovereignty has nothing what so ever to do with either the monarchy or feudalism.

That does not mean it was not one of several methods used to control people.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/4/2011 12:55:40 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 12:58:15 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Just like the right of a monarch to do as he fookin' pleases under feudalism, in fact.

no not at all
that is a misnomer
the monarch has always has his courtiers and precisely like to today they change the "meanings" of the words, OR change the words and retain the same meanings,  and they own the courts for show trials.  It fools anyone who is not educated in law and grammar. 

Remember the monarchy claimed they got rid of feudalism when THE CHANGED THE NAME from "subinfeadination" to "substitution" by grant that carries the heriditaments. 

In other words they changed the fucking name while it remains functionally the same, and claimed it was different. 

Hence nothing changed but the names.

Sovereignty has nothing what so ever to do with either the monarchy or feudalism.

That does not mean it was not one of several methods used to control people.

I'm game.
Find some citations about a monarchy (it'd be nice if you could name a specific monarchy for an example, but I'm not holding my breath) hornswoggling their subjects with a linguistic bait and switch when they already had absolute power and could whatever the fuck they wanted with impunity in any case.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:02:52 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Didn't the founders say something to the effect that "Rights are bestowed on us by "GOD" and not "men?"


which also on the other side of the coin can be applied to all those who refer to "rights" UNDER the constitution.  No such thing.

The 14th changed the government into a club that declared contract as the highest law and the privileges and immunities are to avoid the rigors of the strict common law and without that you are subject to the judges decisions.

Judges today are the final say and ultimate RULERS of the once common law based countries colonized by england


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:05:36 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Just like the right of a monarch to do as he fookin' pleases under feudalism, in fact.

no not at all
that is a misnomer
the monarch has always has his courtiers and precisely like to today they change the "meanings" of the words, OR change the words and retain the same meanings,  and they own the courts for show trials.  It fools anyone who is not educated in law and grammar. 

Remember the monarchy claimed they got rid of feudalism when THE CHANGED THE NAME from "subinfeadination" to "substitution" by grant that carries the heriditaments. 

In other words they changed the fucking name while it remains functionally the same, and claimed it was different. 

Hence nothing changed but the names.

Sovereignty has nothing what so ever to do with either the monarchy or feudalism.

That does not mean it was not one of several methods used to control people.

I'm game.
Find some citations about a monarchy (it'd be nice if you could name a specific monarchy for an example, but I'm not holding my breath) hornswoggling their subjects with a linguistic bait and switch when they already had absolute power and could whatever the fuck they wanted with impunity in any case.


yeh well you are right in that is difficult because power does depend on which king was in power at the time.   While I have the information 8 terrabytes its not easy to simply pull one citation it out on a whim any more.  It overloads my grep.


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/4/2011 1:06:43 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:09:37 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		So you've got nothing, and can't back up your claim.
Thought so.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:09:50 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		One can cite the jabberwocky in terms of constitution and law, and it would be as valid as any I have seen from you.

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RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:11:06 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		He's probably working on the "what I tell you three times is true" principle.
(Or is that the Snark?)

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:19:04 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"There is no right to own property in the Constitution. "

Not so fast. What does the word "their" mean in the fourth ?

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable......... "

Their papers and effects would be in their houses which would most likely be built on their land.

How else would this be construed, reasonably ?

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:28:06 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Didn't the founders say something to the effect that "Rights are bestowed on us by "GOD" and not "men?""

Nope. They were careful to use the word "Creator".

T^T

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:34:24 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So you've got nothing, and can't back up your claim.
Thought so.


sure I can if you want to pay for a finders fee for the research time to go through all those fucking files.   I gave you the information and I post information I have handy beyond that I charge.  There is another way, you can always take me to court that is the only way I am obligated to prove anything but when I do than you have many additional fees.

So if you are too cheap to pay then you have to wait till I run across it.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:35:51 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Didn't the founders say something to the effect that "Rights are bestowed on us by "GOD" and not "men?""

Nope. They were careful to use the word "Creator".

T^T


I stand corrected, good point.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:36:36 PM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline 		-FR-

This is the Second Amendment of the US Constitution:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It actually specifies regulation. And it gives the reason for the right to bear arms as the need for a militia. Now, at the time, they needed that to fight against Native Americans in the West, as well as potential threats by British, Spanish, and French armies against our land...and even to fight slave rebellions. Now...we own the whole country. The "militia" idea makes me think of civilians going to the Mexican border to shoot and patrol.

I think that Americans should have the right to keep guns (definitely hunting rifles and shotguns, handguns should be legal but regulated...personally I'd ban most gangsta rappers from owning guns just from their irresponsible gun lyrics) but I don't think that should be based in the Second Amendment because that ties gun ownership to civilian militias and I am not too keen on civilian militias taking the law into their own hands.

I wonder if "a well regulated militia" could be compared to something like the National Guard. If so...then wouldn't the modern interpretation be something like "if you want a gun, join the National Guard"?

< Message edited by imperatrixx -- 7/4/2011 1:37:52 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:37:37 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

He's probably working on the "what I tell you three times is true" principle.
(Or is that the Snark?)



nah lots of people take that approach when proven wrong by their supremeee creamie court god


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Gun rights vs responsibilities by the government - 7/4/2011 1:37:44 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So you've got nothing, and can't back up your claim.
Thought so.


sure I can if you want to pay for a finders fee for the research time to go through all those fucking files.   I gave you the information and I post information I have handy beyond that I charge.  There is another way, you can always take me to court that is the only way I am obligated to prove anything but when I do than you have many additional fees.

So if you are too cheap to pay then you have to wait till I run across it.


You're the one who claims that you have a case for your line of bullshit: substantiate it, or withdraw it.

(I bet the dog ate your homework every night when you were at school...)

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 7/4/2011 1:41:00 PM >

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 40
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