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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 8:59:10 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
 it bothers me that a special course or month or unit must be set aside for that purpose.

agreed 100%

heather basically described my feelings about "months." it's sad that they're necessary, i would prefer that they weren't.


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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 9:01:30 AM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		I grew up in CA, Heather.. LOl

I agree with what you said about the recognition bit.. but as I said to Termy.. babysteps is going to be the path to 'universal' acceptance..

(universal being relaitve.. I think SOME societies will NEVER recognize 'the OTHER')

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 9:01:47 AM   
tammystarm


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Status: offline 		yeah maybe i was a bit rough with my language, it wasnt meant for the normal tennessens just the back woods hood wearing waste of flesh people :)

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 9:03:02 AM   
Canaille


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quote:

like it or not, we are not collectively at a point where we can say "omgz color/orientation/whatever doesn't matter" because it does.


No, not collectively, and we never will be. It's always going to matter to someone, and when that stops mattering, we're going to find whole new reasons to look down upon our elitist little noses at some other group. That is, sadly, human nature.

What I am against is the deliberate reinforcement of those differences by means of education. By stating that a person was important not just because they were historically important, but because they were black/gay/female is a backhanded way of saying that history and the people that read it should heap extra praise on them because, "omgz, they were this and they still managed to do something important!"

My teachers and my parents taught history. It didn't make a whit of difference to them who that history was about. If they had to struggle because they weren't part of the accepted social structure, they taught that, too, and it was the extra odds that they had heaped against them that made them special to me. I didn't identify with their "caste," I identified with them as people.

Like I said, I might have gotten phenomenally lucky.


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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 9:04:07 AM   
tammystarm


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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 9:12:11 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

agreed 100%
That's because we both have big brains!! Big, sexy, exciting brains.

<Of course that pretty much makes us zombie bait.>

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 9:14:25 AM   
HeatherMcLeather


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quote:

"omgz, they were this and they still managed to do something important!"
That's what bothers me about it too.

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 9:15:48 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		At my synagogue, we have maybe a dozen posters depicting accomplishments by individual Jews in numerous fields. They're displayed for our own perusal. It would be presumptuous as hell for us to insist that non-Jews have to read them.

If gays and lesbians want to chronicle their achievements, cool. But it's not the schools' place to promulgate it. But I don't wanna get to the point where our school graduates can't read, write, or add, but have better self esteem and more awareness of gay pride than any other country.

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 9:29:10 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather
You're all from the south <well except Icarys, I'm a southerner from his perspective>.

Not exactly.  LOL.

As to the OP, I happen to think it's a good decision.  We aren't quite yet at the point where we can just label it "history" because we all happen to be people.  We've made progress in areas such as changing laws, etc to remove discrimination regarding sexual orientation.  I can't say that part of history was taught to Me in school and I can't say that much, if any, was taught when My kids are going to school. 

It may not be the perfect way, but if this way gets those events and people who helped to shape our world added to the curriculum, I see that as a positive.


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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 9:35:14 AM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		yep, LadyP// babysteps..

thiose kids that follow the curriculum will hopefully take away a more tolerant view of the world, which they will hopefully pass along to THEIR kids.

There is NO quick fix.. it's a generational thing, IMO.

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 12:09:21 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Not to rain on the parade........

I have nothing against gay people. But this is about as lame as Black history month. What now we are going to segregate history when we can't segregate ourselves ? What's next, Irish history, People with bad backs history, Camel smoker's history, Toyota driver's history ?

You want to bring people together, how about just HISTORY ? And then those who learn will learn who was gay, who was fat, who drank Pepsi or Coke ?

T^T


Lol, yeah, and next thing you know it'll be, "midgets with blonde hair history." I can just see them protesting and wacking the tall people in the nuts with sticks; "SMALL POWER! SMALL POWER!

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 12:14:36 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Not to rain on the parade........

I have nothing against gay people. But this is about as lame as Black history month. What now we are going to segregate history when we can't segregate ourselves ? What's next, Irish history, People with bad backs history, Camel smoker's history, Toyota driver's history ?

You want to bring people together, how about just HISTORY ? And then those who learn will learn who was gay, who was fat, who drank Pepsi or Coke ?

T^T


Lol, yeah, and next thing you know it'll be, "midgets with blonde hair history." I can just see them protesting and wacking the tall people in the nuts with sticks; "SMALL POWER! SMALL POWER!


I can think of a few people that could use a good nutswhacking with a stick.

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 12:17:08 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		"Peddle your blather on your own dime and on your own time."

You get my dick up your ass as much as anyone. I agree with some of what you say. And when someone else tells you to shut up, they get it too, and that's that.

It is their fucking dime and it is their fucking time.

I was going to respond in agreement with something else you said, but now you have put me of, so it can wait.

T^T

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 12:29:30 PM   
PeonForHer


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Am I getting the correct impression here - that America has some history now? How wonderful!

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 12:30:56 PM   
GreedyTop


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smartass.. shall I start making plans for punishing you NOW? 

*hugs*

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 12:43:52 PM   
Termyn8or


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"At my synagogue, we have maybe a dozen posters depicting accomplishments by individual Jews in numerous fields."

You're it DS. I have read the thread, but you are the quotable.

Jews are known for accomplishments. My family is very similar, the difference is that when young, we make it a point to study. Our Parents provide the means even amidst poor excuses for school systems. Even if you can't afford books you get a fucking pencil and paper, and make sure your kids know as much as possible. Knowledge is power.

Blacks on the other hand were stripped from a tribal lifestyle, enslaved and it was illegal to teach them to read for a time. This because White Men figured it out from the Natives here, that people are easier to deal with that way. Some legacy huh. But then in a couple hundred years they caught up. Few people know that a Balck Man invented the stoplight, no, more aptly put the stop signal. I am pretty sure it was not even lights. Little signs popped out of a pole telling people who had the right of way at an intersection. Until then I guess they just ran into each other and wrecked their cars. And this was quite some time ago.

Gays ? Over the history of this country, most gays were in the closet so to speak. Who knows about George Washingtom, did he have any kids ? Jefferson, Madison, all them guys. Gays have been found out plenty of times, postumasly after having a Wife for life ! So who knows ?

Segregating history in this way only serves to divide, and if you will, conquer. Why do we need to teach the story of Garrett Morgan in February ? We don't. He happened to be Black. Big fucking deal.

Teach ALL history, and while we're at it, teach the bad history, about the attempted genocide against the friendly Natives here while extolling the virtues of the rich slave owners who founded this country. Get real. Teach it all.

We really need to get our head out of our asses here. This guy invented that. If the student wants to know his race, sexual orientation, or hair color for that matter, let them discover.

So California is saying that there were no Gays in history, but all the sudden there are ?

Bullmotherfuckingshit.

And really if you want to celebrate specially for those of any race or creed in a private setting like a church (synagogue, whatever) do so. But this is what's called PUBLIC school. Noone should be singled out for praise or demonization.

T^T

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 1:16:48 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

when Termy figures out how to get the people who write up history curriculums and text books to include the achievements and history of everyone together, then he can whine about how lame a "history month" or "history unit" is.
personally, i don't believe in "history months," but i see them as necessary, because without them you get "white men came to america and ruled it. the end."



But that is his point entirely LBP. It would be one thing to make a law saying that everyone's contributions to history should be discussed. Last I checked, the Battle of Antetem (sp?) was not only taught in February.

If we found out that Thomas Edison was bi-sexual, would his achievements suddenly be removed from history? I don't think so.

The problem is that by designating a month, a week or a semester to a specific thing, we are, in essence, stating that things still should be segregated. I would prefer to see a discussion of Harvey Milk (the only single individual gay person I know of in history) take place during a discussion of politics as a whole, rather than "Gay History Day."

By bringing them all together, we cease to see them as "different." I don't want to diminish the great works of Martin Luther King, Jr. at all. Last I checked, he was for equality of ALL races. I believe time should be devoted to Dr. King in History Class, but as part of what would be at least a month of studying the Civil Rights Movement.

Again, by separating people by race or sexuality, we continue to segregate.

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 1:28:40 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

agreed 100%
That's because we both have big brains!! Big, sexy, exciting brains.

<Of course that pretty much makes us zombie bait.>



But if you make some great historical discovery or invention, do you want it included in history because it was great or because you were a lesbian?

Sorry, and I am well aware that people can be very unaccepting, but I think by placing the "gay/ethnic/female" spin on it diminishes the accomplishment of the person.

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 1:32:40 PM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		maybe its just me, but during the "month" classes when I was in school, it was HIGHLIGHTING the accomplishments of those who had historically been marginalized, at best.

While I agree that the months also tend to carry a flavor of segregation, again I say , BABY STEPS..

sadly, a goodly portion of the population still isnt all that accepting of any differences..

bring it into the schools in a manner that isnt seen as 'threatening' (to at least SOME of that frightened crowd), then education/familiarization will help to turn the tides, IMO

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RE: CA lawmakers pass bill to teach gay history - 7/6/2011 1:41:34 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		if you'd read her posts you'd see that she doesn't want to be singled out or differentiated because of the lesbian thing.
but if you remove the "months" then you're counting on people to include those things in a curriculum, and just last year officials in texas went about their business taking a lot of stuff like that out.

the months are a pain in the neck, but when people already see those contributions as "not worth the same" and go out of their way to get rid of them, then without the months, what are you left with?
maybe i'm a cynic, but i just don't believe most of the people going into teaching or most of the people on school boards are all that willing to actually be inclusive.


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