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RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:40:49 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

AHHHHHHHH....now I understand.  You are a fool.  Christ was no liberal.  According to the bible, Christ said that the man who does not work, should not eat.  It is also in the bible that the good lord will provide, not for your desires but for your needs.  You only need to do three things; have faith in God, have a plan and implement that plan every day.

Christ was not a liberal and you are a sanctimonious, blasphemous, self serving, hypocritical ASS for suggesting the same.  How disgusting.  You invoke Jesus to steal from your neighbor. 

Do you believe in free will?  When you give to the poor that is charity and charity is philanthropic.  When money is taken from you to redistribute to people that don't work as hard as the rest of us (usually to buy votes which is why LBJ implemented his welfare scheme in the 60's and is quoted by his aid as saying "I'll have them n*****s voting democratic for the next 200 years) is TYRANNY.  So you, my friend, are a petty tyrant wrapped in the cloak of Christianity.  For the record, I am Catholic.  I have taken in the homeless...taken them in, fed them, washed their clothes, let them use my shower, etc.  All clothes I no longer wear, I donate.  All cars I have used (and used the shit out of but they still ran) got donated to organizations like Kars for Kids. I have donated to leukemia foundations and supported two children with the United Christian Children's Fund in response to an answered novena. 

Petty, little tyrant who has found a book to support his views.



Not good enough.

"Jesus told him, "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Matthew 19:21

If you really listened to Jesus you wouldn't have any money for the government to take so it wouldn't matter to you.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:43:16 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

My “problem”, as I believe you would see it, is that I am a Christian... If a person is really a Christian, he or she cannot be anything else but a liberal.

Your problem is that you can't read. Nothing in the text you quoted requires (or even contemplates) turning your money over to the government and trusting a bunch of bureaucrats to dispense it.

K.


Oh my God, Kriata, you are smarter, more well reasoned and more freedom minded than our grand Pope, Fighterdirecto.  Its guys like Fighter that makes the anger people feel for Christianity almost (almost ) seem reasonable.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:44:55 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Loyal to the country can mean different things.  Patriotism cannot.  Patriotism is one thing and that is the love of the ideals on which your country was founded.  So if you are a communist, you are not a patriotic American...it is not a question of borders, it is a matter of ideals.



I'm about 1000% sure that the founding fathers were not against communism. Mostly because it hadn't been invented yet.

Slavery on the other hand...

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:46:41 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

racial group, a different gender or was born in a different country.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Didn't do any potato peeling, did do a tour at NSA though.  And if you are a veteran you know that as a group they are least likely to harm the country.  Many are asked to put their lives on the line daily and to assume that they are going to turn around and attack the country is insulting.  It is a fact that the vast majority of veterans are fanatically loyal to the country and it is a fact that since Viet Nam it has been popular on the left to vie them as baby killers.  

You're claiming to have worked at NSA but not to be a veteran. Which advanced degree do you hold and from which institution? Math or Computer Science?



If you had read the exchange that led to this you would have noticed that I am a veteran

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:46:56 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

AHHHHHHHH....now I understand.  You are a fool.  Christ was no liberal.  According to the bible, Christ said that the man who does not work, should not eat.  It is also in the bible that the good lord will provide, not for your desires but for your needs.  You only need to do three things; have faith in God, have a plan and implement that plan every day.

Christ was not a liberal and you are a sanctimonious, blasphemous, self serving, hypocritical ASS for suggesting the same.  How disgusting.  You invoke Jesus to steal from your neighbor. 

Do you believe in free will?  When you give to the poor that is charity and charity is philanthropic.  When money is taken from you to redistribute to people that don't work as hard as the rest of us (usually to buy votes which is why LBJ implemented his welfare scheme in the 60's and is quoted by his aid as saying "I'll have them n*****s voting democratic for the next 200 years) is TYRANNY.  So you, my friend, are a petty tyrant wrapped in the cloak of Christianity.  For the record, I am Catholic.  I have taken in the homeless...taken them in, fed them, washed their clothes, let them use my shower, etc.  All clothes I no longer wear, I donate.  All cars I have used (and used the shit out of but they still ran) got donated to organizations like Kars for Kids. I have donated to leukemia foundations and supported two children with the United Christian Children's Fund in response to an answered novena. 

Petty, little tyrant who has found a book to support his views.



Not good enough.

"Jesus told him, "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Matthew 19:21

If you really listened to Jesus you wouldn't have any money for the government to take so it wouldn't matter to you.



No...you are wrong.  You are taking that passage out of context.  He told that to a man that wanted to follow him as an apostle.  The man was wealthy and Christ told the man what you cited above.  The man told Christ that he was (and I'm paraphrasing) crazy and that he asked for too much and the man went away.  Christ then said to his apostles that a camel has an easier time passing through the eye of a needle than entering the Kingdom of Heaven.  Christ used that man to teach a lesson and the lesson Christ taught that day was that God is jealous and you can have no love of anything above God.  Because if you do, the thing you love above God is your Master.......not God.



(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:47:17 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

"Jesus told him, "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Yeah but who wants to be perfect?

K.

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:49:13 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Loyal to the country can mean different things.  Patriotism cannot.  Patriotism is one thing and that is the love of the ideals on which your country was founded.  So if you are a communist, you are not a patriotic American...it is not a question of borders, it is a matter of ideals.



I'm about 1000% sure that the founding fathers were not against communism. Mostly because it hadn't been invented yet.

Slavery on the other hand...


The Founding Fathers were specifically against socialism and rejected Rousseau and other theorists that preceded him.  You are a socialist?  Do us all a favor and move to a socialist country.  People like you are only impediments to freedom and success.

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:49:36 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
No...you are wrong.  You are taking that passage out of context.  He told that to a man that wanted to follow him as an apostle.  The man was wealthy and Christ told the man what you cited above.  The man told Christ that he was (and I'm paraphrasing) crazy and that he asked for too much and the man went away.  Christ then said to his apostles that a camel has an easier time passing through the eye of a needle than entering the Kingdom of Heaven.  Christ used that man to teach a lesson and the lesson Christ taught that day was that God is jealous and you can have no love of anything above God.  Because if you do, the thing you love above God is your Master.......not God.



No, it wasn't a man who wanted to follow Jesus as an apostle, it was a man who wanted "eternal life" which I'm guessing means the heaven-sort, not the immortal-on-earth sort.


16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,

19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:50:45 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
No...you are wrong.  You are taking that passage out of context.  He told that to a man that wanted to follow him as an apostle.  The man was wealthy and Christ told the man what you cited above.  The man told Christ that he was (and I'm paraphrasing) crazy and that he asked for too much and the man went away.  Christ then said to his apostles that a camel has an easier time passing through the eye of a needle than entering the Kingdom of Heaven.  Christ used that man to teach a lesson and the lesson Christ taught that day was that God is jealous and you can have no love of anything above God.  Because if you do, the thing you love above God is your Master.......not God.



No, it wasn't a man who wanted to follow Jesus as an apostle, it was a man who wanted "eternal life" which I'm guessing means the heaven-sort, not the immortal-on-earth sort.


16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,

19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”


Post the rest of it.

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:51:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Loyal to the country can mean different things.  Patriotism cannot.  Patriotism is one thing and that is the love of the ideals on which your country was founded.  So if you are a communist, you are not a patriotic American...it is not a question of borders, it is a matter of ideals.



Uh, that is about as wrong as it gets.  Patriotic Americans could certainly be communists, if it serves the country's best intrests. 

And by the same token Corporate Appeasement which has been a tenet of the rabid right is not serving our country's best interests, and while we are at it, many of their other stances are in that same vein.

So, I am going to have to consider whether the rabid right are indeed patriots, because patriotism does not include the self-serving actions and outlook of the few.




< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/11/2011 10:52:33 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:54:54 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Loyal to the country can mean different things.  Patriotism cannot.  Patriotism is one thing and that is the love of the ideals on which your country was founded.  So if you are a communist, you are not a patriotic American...it is not a question of borders, it is a matter of ideals.



Uh, that is about as wrong as it gets.  Patriotic Americans could certainly be communists, if it serves the country's best intrests. 

And by the same token Corporate Appeasement which has been a tenet of the rabid right is not serving our country's best interests, and while we are at it, many of their other stances are in that same vein.

So, I am going to have to consider whether the rabid right are indeed patriots, because patriotism does not include the self-serving actions and outlook of the few.





Wrong. Hamilton called for a monarchy and was told that wasn't what the country was founded for. 

Hamilton told Washington that Washington could be king and Washington told him he couldn't.....because this wasn't a monarchy. 

So I disagree with you.  You cannot be a communist or a socialist (which is what liberals overwhelmingly are) and be a patriot.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:55:11 AM   
FirstQuaker


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Joined: 3/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Loyal to the country can mean different things.  Patriotism cannot.  Patriotism is one thing and that is the love of the ideals on which your country was founded.  So if you are a communist, you are not a patriotic American...it is not a question of borders, it is a matter of ideals.



I'm about 1000% sure that the founding fathers were not against communism. Mostly because it hadn't been invented yet.

Slavery on the other hand...


Not true, communism has been around forever, not by that name. A lot of primitive people's societies are basically communist, the 'workers' hold the 'means of production' in common and divvy up the proceeds among their members.

While this might work on a small scale, once it gets outside of family clans and tribal areas the troubles begin. Usually when either some priests or some thugs show up and think they are entitled to do more of the sharing and less of the gathering then the rest.

< Message edited by FirstQuaker -- 7/11/2011 10:56:14 AM >

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:56:05 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Imperatrixx, you are leaving out the most important part of that passage of scripture.  Post the rest of it, please.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:56:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
No...you are wrong.  You are taking that passage out of context.  He told that to a man that wanted to follow him as an apostle.  The man was wealthy and Christ told the man what you cited above.  The man told Christ that he was (and I'm paraphrasing) crazy and that he asked for too much and the man went away.  Christ then said to his apostles that a camel has an easier time passing through the eye of a needle than entering the Kingdom of Heaven.  Christ used that man to teach a lesson and the lesson Christ taught that day was that God is jealous and you can have no love of anything above God.  Because if you do, the thing you love above God is your Master.......not God.



No, it wasn't a man who wanted to follow Jesus as an apostle, it was a man who wanted "eternal life" which I'm guessing means the heaven-sort, not the immortal-on-earth sort.


16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,

19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”


Post the rest of it.



paraphrasing;

The man walked away with saddened countenance, knowing he would not enter the kingdom of heaven, because his riches were great...........

close enough.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:57:56 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
No...you are wrong.  You are taking that passage out of context.  He told that to a man that wanted to follow him as an apostle.  The man was wealthy and Christ told the man what you cited above.  The man told Christ that he was (and I'm paraphrasing) crazy and that he asked for too much and the man went away.  Christ then said to his apostles that a camel has an easier time passing through the eye of a needle than entering the Kingdom of Heaven.  Christ used that man to teach a lesson and the lesson Christ taught that day was that God is jealous and you can have no love of anything above God.  Because if you do, the thing you love above God is your Master.......not God.



No, it wasn't a man who wanted to follow Jesus as an apostle, it was a man who wanted "eternal life" which I'm guessing means the heaven-sort, not the immortal-on-earth sort.


16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,

19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”


Post the rest of it.



paraphrasing;

The man walked away with saddened countenance, because his riches were great...........

close enough.


Wrong...wrong and stupid.  The point of that lesson was what I said it was, that you can serve no Master above God.  But Kirata is right, man is not capable of living the life of Christ because man is imperfect.  He can aspire to live as Christ-like a life as possible but sin is part of the human condition.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 10:59:58 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Loyal to the country can mean different things.  Patriotism cannot.  Patriotism is one thing and that is the love of the ideals on which your country was founded.  So if you are a communist, you are not a patriotic American...it is not a question of borders, it is a matter of ideals.



I'm about 1000% sure that the founding fathers were not against communism. Mostly because it hadn't been invented yet.

Slavery on the other hand...


Not true, communism has been around forever, not by that name. A lot of primitive people's societies are basically communist, the 'workers' hold the 'means of production' in common and divvy up the proceeds among their members.

While this might work on a small scale, once it gets outside of family clans and tribal areas the troubles begin. Usually when either some priests or some thugs show up and think they are entitled to do more of the sharing and less of the gathering then the rest.


Hi First, I have been saying what you have been saying right along.  There are a number of communes in the Ozarks and they work well enough on their small scale.  Nowhere in the world however has communism emulated a communal life.  It always ends up being more like "Animal Farm".

(in reply to FirstQuaker)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 11:00:02 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Imperatrixx, you are leaving out the most important part of that passage of scripture.  Post the rest of it, please.


16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

< Message edited by imperatrixx -- 7/11/2011 11:03:40 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 11:02:07 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

The Founding Fathers were specifically against socialism and rejected Rousseau and other theorists that preceded him.  You are a socialist?  Do us all a favor and move to a socialist country.  People like you are only impediments to freedom and success.



I already have, actually.

Living in a country that has national health care, a minimum wage twice the US one, and a dollar that's held steady as the US dollar plummeted has made me see just how fucked up the US is.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 11:03:41 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

The Founding Fathers were specifically against socialism and rejected Rousseau and other theorists that preceded him.  You are a socialist?  Do us all a favor and move to a socialist country.  People like you are only impediments to freedom and success.



I already have, actually.

Living in a country that has national health care, a minimum wage twice the US one, and a dollar that's held steady as the US dollar plummeted has made me see just how fucked up the US is.


Well then I applaud you.  You are a man of your convictions and I wave to you from afar! :)

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: 1,002 active hate groups in the United States in 2010 - 7/11/2011 11:05:10 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Loyal to the country can mean different things.  Patriotism cannot.  Patriotism is one thing and that is the love of the ideals on which your country was founded.  So if you are a communist, you are not a patriotic American...it is not a question of borders, it is a matter of ideals.



Uh, that is about as wrong as it gets.  Patriotic Americans could certainly be communists, if it serves the country's best intrests. 

And by the same token Corporate Appeasement which has been a tenet of the rabid right is not serving our country's best interests, and while we are at it, many of their other stances are in that same vein.

So, I am going to have to consider whether the rabid right are indeed patriots, because patriotism does not include the self-serving actions and outlook of the few.





Wrong. Hamilton called for a monarchy and was told that wasn't what the country was founded for. 

Hamilton told Washington that Washington could be king and Washington told him he couldn't.....because this wasn't a monarchy. 

So I disagree with you.  You cannot be a communist or a socialist (which is what liberals overwhelmingly are) and be a patriot.



That is a non sequitur.  

Wrong. For Washington (who would have easily worked for King George to destroy America, had they only the foresight to give him his requested Major Generalship.

Nevertheless, the story of the Kingship is not true in any case, it is more rabid right misinformation and anecdotes much like the Joe the Plumber sort of suppostioins that are flouted about as future instead of factual support and reality.

http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/gbi/docs/kingmyth.html

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 80
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