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In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 8:59:45 AM   
KneelingSub25


Posts: 63
Joined: 12/9/2006
From: New York City
Status: offline
Excerpted from a message that I sent to a woman on CollarMe: 

"I don't know why, but I feel the need to say a few things to you.  I don't expect a reply.  If you do reply, I expect it to be a brief, obscenity-laced insult, at which point I will stare indignantly at my computer screen for having been "bested" by your acerbic wit once again (i.e., I will laugh it off and go my merry way). 

I just want to talk about my perceptions of the D/s lifestyle and my experiences in it.  I was technically "in" the lifestyle from the time I was a prepubescent teen until today, which is roughly 15 years.  While I didn't know much about the lifestyle as a teen, I had intense sexual fantasies of being dominated.

Over the years I've met about a dozen "lifestyle" Dommes from CollarMe for real-time play, but the vast majority of my D/s experiences have been online.  As you know, I've periodically assumed the role of a Dominant, too, although I consider myself to be a natural submissive.  (Sometimes I would assume the role of a Dominant to broaden my perspective).

Anyway, quite recently, I attended three local Kink events that were hosted by a group.  This was my first experience attending a group event (virtually all of my encounters up until this point had been one-on-one or small groups of two or three people).   

A few things struck me.  First, I noticed that the majority of people attending were male Doms and female subs.  In a crowd of 20 or 30 people, I may have been one of only 2 male subs present.  Second, I detected a general perception of "male subs" that was quite different from the perception of "female subs."

Let me preface this by saying a few things: everyone was very, very nice to me.  They were friendly, open, genuine, and had a sense of humor (acquired through years of life experience).  In truth, they were good people, and they were quite accepting of me.  So, nothing that I am about to say is a reflection on them.  It is a reflection on the lifestyle generally.  

One female sub said, "it's good to finally meet a male submissive with a personality."  I inquired further.  "Lots of male subs are...just kind of creepy: they don't say anything, they leer at women, and they just want to get sexual."  Would she have said the same thing about shy female subs? 

Here's what I think:  the majority of women in the "lifestyle" (Dominant women, submissive women, switch women) seem to regard males as unnecessary/useless/superfluous until proven otherwise.  That is to say, they believe it is the duty of the male to capture the woman's attention (whether it be for D/s play or for friendship).  This relates equally to male subs and male Doms.  The truth is, in the enlightened age of feminism, women and men are not treated equally in the D/s lifestyle.

Let me contrast this approach with what I've experienced in the FinDom world (viewed by virtually all Lifestylers as being illegitimate and "fake," akin to stripping).  I've encountered many, many, many bad FinDommes over the years.  Many of them didn't like the lifestyle, or had no interest in learning about the lifestyle.  They were in it for the money and would often say as much. 

However, there was a small handful of FinDommes that were exceptional.  Once they realized that a sub was serious, they would get inside his mind.  They would ask a lot of questions, they would show an interest in the sub.  How does the sub process things?  What are his quirks?  What are his expectations?  They set about training the male sub by engaging with him, understanding his needs, and gradually pushing his boundaries. 

In short, these exceptional FinDommes provided me with what almost every female sub expects from a male Dominant: engagement and interest. 

However, I would never expect this level of treatment from a "Lifestyle Domme."  Why not?  Because it's all about her and getting her needs met.  Who I am as a person matters little to her.  The question they all ask is this: "What can you do for me?"  The question that the exceptional FinDomme asks is this: "Who are you?"  First and foremost, the exceptional FinDomme wants to know her sub. 

I hope that in twenty or thirty years, there will be as many male subs as female subs attending these lifestyle events.  Maybe one day a male submissive can have the same expectations as a female submissive on CollarMe and other sites.  Until then, when I think of "lifestyle Dominants" and "real-time D/s," I think of people like you."


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:05:51 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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Heh. Feel better now?

The lifestyle dommes you know are not like the lifestyle dommes I know.

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:21:16 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25
One female sub said, "it's good to finally meet a male submissive with a personality."  I inquired further.  "Lots of male subs are...just kind of creepy: they don't say anything, they leer at women, and they just want to get sexual."  Would she have said the same thing about shy female subs? 


I don't claim to have deep insight into the mind of female subs or dommes, but from the conversations I've had I would say that the female sub above was probably talking from experience rather than prejudice.

If you're not one of the creepy, leery, masturbatory subs, you'll probably do well - If you're smart, articulate and in tune with yourself then you are probably a relatively rare commodity.

quote:




Here's what I think:  the majority of women in the "lifestyle" (Dominant women, submissive women, switch women) seem to regard males as unnecessary/useless/superfluous until proven otherwise.  That is to say, they believe it is the duty of the male to capture the woman's attention (whether it be for D/s play or for friendship).  This relates equally to male subs and male Doms.  The truth is, in the enlightened age of feminism, women and men are not treated equally in the D/s lifestyle.



Yep this is totally true, and it's a consequence of the market. If you're getting 100 emails a day (or an hour) from hopeful doms/subs/switches/etc etc then practicality dictates that you be very choosy.

quote:





Let me contrast this approach with what I've experienced in the FinDom world (viewed by virtually all Lifestylers as being illegitimate and "fake," akin to stripping). 


Nope, this bit is bullshit. I absolutely don't think that FinDom is viewed by "virtually all Lifestylers" as being illegitimate.

quote:



I've encountered many, many, many bad FinDommes over the years.  Many of them didn't like the lifestyle, or had no interest in learning about the lifestyle.  They were in it for the money and would often say as much. 



Sure! There are loads of obvious freeloaders and piss takers, but the genuine ones do tend to stand out.

Plus... the obvious piss-takers also serve a need. I'm quite sure there are plenty of dudes out there who get off on being utterly humiliated and used by these people.

quote:



However, there was a small handful of FinDommes that were exceptional.  Once they realized that a sub was serious, they would get inside his mind.  They would ask a lot of questions, they would show an interest in the sub.  How does the sub process things?  What are his quirks?  What are his expectations?  They set about training the male sub by engaging with him, understanding his needs, and gradually pushing his boundaries. 

In short, these exceptional FinDommes provided me with what almost every female sub expects from a male Dominant: engagement and interest. 


Yep, you've been able to find a handful of FinDommes that really did match your requirement needs. My personal reaction is "fuck me... a whole handful? Dude, you're obviously very good at this!" - Finding even one person who can match with you needs and wants is a hugely difficult thing, even on a site like this.

quote:



However, I would never expect this level of treatment from a "Lifestyle Domme."  Why not?  Because it's all about her and getting her needs met.  Who I am as a person matters little to her.  The question they all ask is this: "What can you do for me?"  The question that the exceptional FinDomme asks is this: "Who are you?"  First and foremost, the exceptional FinDomme wants to know her sub. 

I hope that in twenty or thirty years, there will be as many male subs as female subs attending these lifestyle events.  Maybe one day a male submissive can have the same expectations as a female submissive on CollarMe and other sites.  Until then, when I think of "lifestyle Dominants" and "real-time D/s," I think of people like you."



Don't give up hope. I think there are plenty of "Lifestyle Dommes" that want to ensure their sub's needs are met, want an actual relationship, but you need to be patient and bear in mind that they're wading through piles of crap every day to try and find the perfect sub.


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:21:27 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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hey thanks for regurgitating your "brilliant thesis" all over the rest of us who don't even have a clue of who you are. =p

quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25

One female sub said, "it's good to finally meet a male submissive with a personality."  I inquired further.  "Lots of male subs are...just kind of creepy: they don't say anything, they leer at women, and they just want to get sexual."  Would she have said the same thing about shy female subs? 



female subs say things like that because, in their experience, it's true. most of the male subs i've met in person have been JUST like that. completely without personality or anything interesting about them. their only motivation in talking to you seems to be to convince you that, secretly behind your subby walls, a corset-and-latex wearing FemDom is just waiting to break out -- yeah, no.
many of them see women as objects to get their kinky fix, even if they profess otherwise -- actions speak louder than words.

what you dont understand is that for many MDom/fsub couples, the focus is on the needs of the MDom, too. =p many fsubs get a great deal of satisfaction from seeing to those needs, and, by doing so, they see to their own needs as well. so your rant about "Lifestyle Dommes" being concerned with their own needs really doesn't get very far with someone like me, who DOES want to see after the needs of someone else. =p haha

are you seeking out a long term relationship? many fsubs are -- and so their approach and expectations are a bit different, in many ways, than someone who is seeking a play partner. the wording of your post makes it seem like you're more interested in play, so it's not terribly surprising that you're going to get a different kind of reception. you define the women by what they do ("lifestyle" vs. financial domination, blah blah blah) rather than who they are, which is what you're complaining about. ironic, no? =p
you're competing with who knows how many other guys for the attention of this woman; maybe you're just not doing whatever it is that would make you stand out to her to cause her to give you this engagement and interest.
with the financial Domme, though, maybe you did -- since people are attracted to a wide variety of different things, that's not surprising at all.

i really don't see the point of your post. you're complaining, basically, about being a minority in a particular kinky community, which may or may not be a reflection of communities elsewhere. you're complaining that you aren't getting enough attention, or the kind of attention you want, from women you contact -- well get used to it, buddy, because that's real life. you're complaining about "lifestyle dommes" because you feel they don't care who you are -- well maybe you just weren't their type? maybe you weren't interesting to them? the laws of attraction differ for each person you meet -- again, that's real life, get used to it.




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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:28:24 AM   
DesFIP


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If you had gone to a bar and started up a conversation with a woman who said it was nice to talk to a man who was interested in what she had to say and looked her in the eye, as opposed to staring at her breasts - would you really have thought it was just her perceptions and that most of the women there did the same to the men?

I can assure you that I don't go around staring at a man's body part and then tell him that it's his own fault I won't look him in the eye, that I would if only his eyes were set in that body part. Almost every woman has had such a crude comment made to her.

Men tend to lead with their sexuality, women on average want a relationship to feel safe to indulge their sexuality. Beyond that, there are a lot of male subs who have never had a relationship with a female dominant. All they know about it comes from their own sexual fantasies and from porn. And porn is unrealistic and fosters unrealistic expectations in people without any experience.


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:35:17 AM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25


However, I would never expect this level of treatment from a "Lifestyle Domme."  Why not?  Because it's all about her and getting her needs met.  Who I am as a person matters little to her.  The question they all ask is this: "What can you do for me?"  The question that the exceptional FinDomme asks is this: "Who are you?"  First and foremost, the exceptional FinDomme wants to know her sub. 



You know, it's funny...one of the first things I ask a man who contacts me here to do is to tell me who he is beyond the label and the kink. Rarely do I get a response that doesn't include his list of kink/sexual wants first and foremost.

It would seem, according to the OP, that in order to be taken serious, I should be charging a fee. Sad really.

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 7/13/2011 9:36:10 AM >

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:37:08 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

It would seem, according to the OP, that in order to be taken serious, I should be charging a fee. Sad really.

According to the OP, sure. But according to shared reality, all you have to do is associate with men who aren't bitter.

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:42:36 AM   
Palliata


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There is so much wrong with this, I honestly don't even know where to start. First of all, why is financial domination considered illegitimate by the "majority?" Where was this poll conducted, and why did I not get my ballot? Secondly, where is the connection between an illegitimate activity and stripping?  Is stripping somehow a bad thing in some way I haven't been informed of? Thirdly, the claim that "normal" lifestyle dommes are horrible bitches who refuse to engage with their subs is absurd. Femdom would die out as a concept if that were the case - the market for random and meaningless abuse which disregards the submissive as a human being is rather small in my experience.

I approve of financial domination for the same reason I approve of foot fetishism and the eating of D batteries - it's not my life, it's not my problem, it's not my business.


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:05:46 AM   
KneelingSub25


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Joined: 12/9/2006
From: New York City
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quote:

The lifestyle dommes you know are not like the lifestyle dommes I know.


That's fair.  I am not suggesting that I speak for all the submissives or dominants in the lifestyle.  I am only stating my opinion, an opinion based on my personal experiences.   


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:07:15 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

most of the male subs i've met in person have been JUST like that. completely without personality or anything interesting about them. their only motivation in talking to you seems to be to convince you that, secretly behind your subby walls, a corset-and-latex wearing FemDom is just waiting to break out -- yeah, no.


Although I clearly identify as a sub, most of the emails I receive are from sub men wanting to orally please me - yeah, that will happen.

OP - like crazy ml says:

quote:

If you're not one of the creepy, leery, masturbatory subs, you'll probably do well - If you're smart, articulate and in tune with yourself then you are probably a relatively rare commodity.


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:12:11 AM   
KneelingSub25


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From: New York City
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quote:

First of all, why is financial domination considered illegitimate by the "majority?" Where was this poll conducted, and why did I not get my ballot? Secondly, where is the connection between an illegitimate activity and stripping?


Once again, I'm not relying on quantitative data.  My evidence is anecdotal.  This isn't presented as a research study.  This is just my opinion. 

I have nothing against stripping or even prostitution.  I think prostitution should be legalized, and I don't consider it immoral.  I think there is a "real" difference, however, between an experienced FinDomme and a stripper dressing up as a Dominatrix in leather for a bachelor party.  Remember the wording I used:  "fake," akin to stripping.  Once again, I'm not judging stripping, just distinguishing "stripping" from "Domming."    Critical. reading. skills. 


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:14:27 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

secretly behind your subby walls, a corset-and-latex wearing FemDom is just waiting to break out -- yeah, no.
Or in my case, behind your maleness. I kid you not, I have been approached by "straight" male subs who tried to convince me I really was a crossdresser and should be their "Domme".

When I made the Arswine sockpuppet account, I received mail from a mail sub who tried very hard to convince me that it wasn't a joke account, despite that being utterly obvious. Face it, there are a good number of people identifying as male subs who really don't give a damn about your gender or orientation, or role...they want to be dominated by something and want it NOW!


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:16:31 AM   
LadyPact


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I want to preface this by saying that I am replying in this particular style *not* with the intention to pick your post apart.  You've got some points where I agree, some I don't agree, and some that I'm teetering on the brink.  You did want discussion, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25
I had intense sexual fantasies of being dominated.

We'd probably have some debate about fantasies = living.  Not the point of your thread, so I'll move forward.

quote:

Over the years I've met about a dozen "lifestyle" Dommes from CollarMe for real-time play, but the vast majority of my D/s experiences have been online.

This is probably part of the issue.

quote:

A few things struck me.  First, I noticed that the majority of people attending were male Doms and female subs.  In a crowd of 20 or 30 people, I may have been one of only 2 male subs present.

I normally wouldn't split a paragraph, but this is contradictory to My experience.  I don't think I've *ever* been to a munch where only two sub males attended.  I think it would shock Me beyond belief.

quote:

Second, I detected a general perception of "male subs" that was quite different from the perception of "female subs."

This part, I do agree with.  The problem on this one is how male subs are perceived when first entering the lifestyle.  A good percentage of them spawn their interests from their sexual desires alone, relying more on fantasy than reality.  There's no balance in it.  Women tend to look more at the overall picture.

quote:

Let me preface this by saying a few things: everyone was very, very nice to me.  They were friendly, open, genuine, and had a sense of humor (acquired through years of life experience).  In truth, they were good people, and they were quite accepting of me.  So, nothing that I am about to say is a reflection on them.  It is a reflection on the lifestyle generally.  

I didn't snip this out based solely on the fact that I'm glad you said it.  Too often, folks complain about the reception that they receive at a munch.  That they found the atmosphere clique-y or they feel that people should have been falling all over themselves to greet the new person, paying no attention to anybody else.  Kudos on this.

quote:

One female sub said, "it's good to finally meet a male submissive with a personality."  I inquired further.  "Lots of male subs are...just kind of creepy: they don't say anything, they leer at women, and they just want to get sexual."  Would she have said the same thing about shy female subs? 

This kind of makes Me wonder just how many male subs in established dynamics this particular woman has met.  It sounds as though her experiences with male subs are based more on the stereotype, driven by first encounters with fantasists, had a great influence in forming her opinions.

quote:

Here's what I think:  the majority of women in the "lifestyle" (Dominant women, submissive women, switch women) seem to regard males as unnecessary/useless/superfluous until proven otherwise.  That is to say, they believe it is the duty of the male to capture the woman's attention (whether it be for D/s play or for friendship).  This relates equally to male subs and male Doms.  The truth is, in the enlightened age of feminism, women and men are not treated equally in the D/s lifestyle.

So much to cover here!  Gender aside, I don't happen to think anyone "needs" some great fulfillment that *must* be provided by an outside, unknown party.  I believe that healthy people are perfectly capable of finding self-fulfillment, happiness, and joy without dependency on another human being to create those things for them.  There is a difference between *wanting* to share your life with another person, instead of *needing* them to fill a void.

I do agree that males do find themselves needing to capture the attention of the female.  This is true in nature and is only emphasized with the imbalance of the D/s world.  A strong, confident woman is not lacking for attention.  If a male does not step up to become noticed, I can promise that someone else will be.

No.  Males and females are *not* treated equally within the D/s lifestyle.  It absolutely is a woman's market, side of the kneel not withstanding.  This is the very reason that female submissives have a greater opportunity of selection, have more options in selecting partners, etc than males do.  There have *always* been more males interested in kink than  females.  This swings the balance of power.  Even if the ratio is as low as 2:1, the woman is still doing the choosing between her two options.

quote:

Let me contrast this approach with what I've experienced in the FinDom world (viewed by virtually all Lifestylers as being illegitimate and "fake," akin to stripping).  I've encountered many, many, many bad FinDommes over the years.  Many of them didn't like the lifestyle, or had no interest in learning about the lifestyle.  They were in it for the money and would often say as much. 

In this, you are only looking at a shift of currency.

quote:

However, there was a small handful of FinDommes that were exceptional.  Once they realized that a sub was serious, they would get inside his mind.  They would ask a lot of questions, they would show an interest in the sub.  How does the sub process things?  What are his quirks?  What are his expectations?  They set about training the male sub by engaging with him, understanding his needs, and gradually pushing his boundaries. 

In short, these exceptional FinDommes provided me with what almost every female sub expects from a male Dominant: engagement and interest.

I would happen to think so.  Many are looking at the bottom line.  As a lifestyle Domme, I am looking at what makes Me happy in a compatibility factor.  There is a payoff for Me in the way I feel, My satisfaction, and benefits to My happiness.  The same can be said in regard to cold, hard cashWhen money is provided, there is an influential reciprocation intended.  Each party is getting a desire met. 

quote:

However, I would never expect this level of treatment from a "Lifestyle Domme."  Why not?  Because it's all about her and getting her needs met.  Who I am as a person matters little to her.  The question they all ask is this: "What can you do for me?"  The question that the exceptional FinDomme asks is this: "Who are you?"  First and foremost, the exceptional FinDomme wants to know her sub. 

This makes Me think that you, along with the female sub that was referenced above, really haven't had a lot of exposure to long term, female led dynamics.  A debate for another time, perhaps?

quote:

I hope that in twenty or thirty years, there will be as many male subs as female subs attending these lifestyle events.  Maybe one day a male submissive can have the same expectations as a female submissive on CollarMe and other sites.  Until then, when I think of "lifestyle Dominants" and "real-time D/s," I think of people like you."

I have no intention of misleading anyone.  I haven't been doing this for thirty years.  Even with the wide spread use of the internet the ratio numbers haven't become 1:1.  I honestly don't believe that I will ever see that in My lifetime.  Should that time ever come, there will still be competition over the most desirable female.

As for internet sites, the equality in numbers might come closer over time, but this certainly isn't that eraIt just isn't that difficult, even the minimal effort of opening an account and filling out a profile, for a woman to get what she wants.  It's really just not that hard for us, if we're looking to be satisfied with the thrill of the moment.



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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:18:38 AM   
KneelingSub25


Posts: 63
Joined: 12/9/2006
From: New York City
Status: offline
quote:

you define the women by what they do ("lifestyle" vs. financial domination, blah blah blah) rather than who they are, which is what you're complaining about. ironic, no? =p


I do not understand this.  I'm evaluating both lifestyle Dommes and finDommes (who might also be Lifestylers) based on who they are, not on "what they do."  In other words, I apply the same criteria to FinDommes as I do to Lifestyle Dommes.    Are you implying that I'm evaluating them differently?  The test, or standard, that I'm applying is the same. 


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:28:23 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quick question, and not meant to be snarky...

how many of the dommes of whichever stripe do you know REAL TIME..  menaing not from online and online only?

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:32:02 AM   
KneelingSub25


Posts: 63
Joined: 12/9/2006
From: New York City
Status: offline
quote:

quick question, and not meant to be snarky...

how many of the dommes of whichever stripe do you know REAL TIME.. menaing not from online and online only?


About a dozen real time. 


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:32:09 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I have nothing against stripping or even prostitution. I think prostitution should be legalized, and I don't consider it immoral. I think there is a "real" difference, however, between an experienced FinDomme and a stripper dressing up as a Dominatrix in leather for a bachelor party. Remember the wording I used: "fake," akin to stripping. Once again, I'm not judging stripping, just distinguishing "stripping" from "Domming." Critical. reading. skills.


Critical writing skills: the bolded makes sense and is very different from what you originally said:

quote:

Let me contrast this approach with what I've experienced in the FinDom world (viewed by virtually all Lifestylers as being illegitimate and "fake," akin to stripping).


I have a 200 hour yoga teacher certification (plus 3 years living at yoga center/ashram plus years of teaching) and feel the same way about aerobics instructors who get a weekend of training in yoga instruction.

(in reply to KneelingSub25)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:35:22 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
FR

How depressing. Lifestyle femdoms slammed again, submales slammed again . . . . Thank God for those, of both camps, that I've met through here.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to KneelingSub25)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:38:13 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
Financial Domination doesn't really need a defense, you are into it or you are not. If you are into it, then good for you, if you're not - then why the hell would it bother you? You just ignore it and pay it no attention.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:42:50 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
Hand me your wallet and kneel bitch!

*Clears voice* Now that I feel all domly and such, let's get down to some basic's. I can understand experiences giving you an impression, as I get my own impressions and can have some attitude along with them. However, in clearer moments, I know that people come in many flavors and just about the time you think they are all the same, you are reminded by a new flavor, most often, that there are other flavors.

I am one of the last one's that people would say is dominant... until they know me. lol I have seen and met a number of fem dom's and while I am very much like a couple of them, there are vast differences between us. I am not a sadist. What I am is one friggin strong woman, easy going and yet... determined, independent and when I see some other dominant women accepting things I would turn my nose up at or caving in to the whim or game of someone, I think... and they call me a fake? lol

There are many flavors... don't get stuck on certain flavors or you could be missing out on a vast amount of creamy goodness.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 7/13/2011 10:44:42 AM >


_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 20
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