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Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 5:15:57 PM

winspiritsbaby

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This question was somewhat sparked by 'fantasy69maker's thread.

I understand the psychological definition of masochism which is that pleasure is taken from pain and/or humiliation. What I'm not sure of is this: If that pleasure is derived from pleasing your Mistress/Master/Domme/Dom and not directly from the act itself, would a person still be considered a masochist?

Post #: 1

RE: Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 5:33:33 PM

DarkSteven

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I suspect that you'll get lots of opinions all over the map.

My answer is no. To me, a masochist gets pleasure directly from pain, while a submissive gets pleasure from pleasing.

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RE: Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 5:38:01 PM

winspiritsbaby

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I do believe you are right on the amount of opinions I will receive, I think along the same lines as you DS, but since my opinion is only one, I was curious as to what others thought.
And thank you for replying

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Post #: 3

RE: Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 5:38:54 PM

LillyBoPeep

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that's an interesting question. ^_^ i wouldn't say a person was a masochist if that didn't find pain (physical and/or mental, depending) "pleasurable" in some way. but really, a lot of the self-ascribed terms we use in kink aren't used in the clinical or text-book-definition sense, anyway.
but many people who engage in S&M with a Dominant partner will readily say "i am not a masochist, i just do it because he likes it."

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RE: Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 5:40:28 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

To me, a masochist gets pleasure directly from pain, while a submissive gets pleasure from pleasing.

+ 1

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Post #: 5

RE: Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 5:51:51 PM

winspiritsbaby

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Thank you Lily and kali.

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RE: Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 6:43:23 PM

HannahLynHeather

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now this one is a real fucking ball of yarn, one i can really relate to. we can, i think, all agree that the simplistic view of a masochist is that the pain gives them pleasure. it's this way with me, hell i even enjoy hurting myself at times. now heather, she's different, she doesn't fucking like pain at all, but she does get pleasure from being hurt by me. for that reason i'm inclined to say yes.

the one time she played with another top heather barely managed to put up with it, and had to beg off before it went very far. this is because the pain the other top inflicted just hurt, she didn't get the kick of hurting for me. so for that reason, i'm inclined to say no.

it's fucking complicated and that's the truth.

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RE: Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 7:46:27 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I suspect that you'll get lots of opinions all over the map.

My answer is no. To me, a masochist gets pleasure directly from pain, while a submissive gets pleasure from pleasing.

This

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RE: Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 9:18:42 PM

DecadentDesire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: winspiritsbaby

This question was somewhat sparked by 'fantasy69maker's thread.

I understand the psychological definition of masochism which is that pleasure is taken from pain and/or humiliation. What I'm not sure of is this: If that pleasure is derived from pleasing your Mistress/Master/Domme/Dom and not directly from the act itself, would a person still be considered a masochist?

Closest word I have been able to find for that is martyrdom. I think it suits a little better than masochism, but it's not a perfect fit in either case.

< Message edited by DecadentDesire -- 7/13/2011 10:15:01 PM >

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RE: Question about masochism - 7/13/2011 10:13:55 PM

juliaoceania

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My first dominant was a sadist, and my second not so much. My pleasure from masochism comes from the top/dominants enjoyment of the act as much as the act itself. In other words, I get more pleasure if my partner is a sadist too, and if he isn't it really isn't as good for me.

For me enduring for another's pleasure is a part of mine, although I enjoy erotic pain intrinsically, also... I do not know if that makes me a real and true masochist, I prefer being just me.

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Post #: 10

RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 12:08:59 AM

foxling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
For me enduring for another's pleasure is a part of mine, although I enjoy erotic pain intrinsically, also... I do not know if that makes me a real and true masochist, I prefer being just me.

+1, me too. Though I don't always identify as a masochist, as it's a label I find really awkward to wear, despite getting off on certain kinds of pain and generally enjoying pain as part of sexual activities. Taking it 'for' him, because he enjoys the sadism, starts to happen as displacement if it's a kind of pain I don't actively like or can't eroticise.

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Post #: 11

RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 12:09:58 AM

myotherself

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I'm a masochist. I can play with Tops and the pain sends me to that happy subspacey place, but I get no sexual thrill from it. It's fun and I always have a good time.

When I play with Master, the pain is altogether different. The wonderful pain sensations I get are all wrapped up in pleasing him, the knowledge that I'm going to get mind-blowing sex at some point, the fact that he is REALLY getting off on hurting me.

It's like comparing moonshine to the best vodka...both are good, but given the choice I'd rather have the vodka

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RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 12:42:26 AM

winspiritsbaby

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Thank you all for your responses.
Decadent...I think you're right, martyrdom does seem to fit a little better.

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RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 3:27:55 AM

BurntKitty

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Masochist chiming in here! For me, it's all about the physical pain (never emotional or humiliation). I also agree if the top is also a sadist, then it get even better.

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Post #: 14

RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 5:03:09 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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Great topic, ty for starting it, OP.

I think when most people speak of masochism or sadism, they mean physical masochism and physical sadism.

It is my opinion that emotional masochism and emotional sadism play a larger role in M/s or d/s relationships than many may be aware of, since I believe most who relate to the dominant role are on some level emotional sadists, and most who relate to the sub role are emotional masochists.

Which answers the question of: Why on earth would *anyone* take pain when they don't like it, just to please another? B/c they are an emotional masochist and get off on it.

When I first started getting into WWD many years ago, I did not relate to being a sadist or a masochist AT ALL. That was just not how I saw myself. Seriously, when I first started bottoming, I could not take a clothespin on my nipple, it was "too much for me." I know, it's hysterical to me now, but physical pain held no interest for me, in fact I hated it -- except under certain circumstances. Over time I began to take note of what those circumstances were, and what that meant about who I was.

I learned that as a submissive, I am an emotional masochist.

I also learned (much earlier on, since I came out as a dominant years before I acknowledged my sub side) that I was an emotional sadist. I LOVE to torture someone in a mental way.

It is my stance that every single aspect of bondage, dominance (or discipline, if you prefer), sadism and masochism can be played out entirely in the mental/emotional realm.

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RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 5:33:07 AM

Wolf2Bear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

"...To me, a masochist gets pleasure directly from pain, while a submissive gets pleasure from pleasing."

And fore some of us who fall on both sides of the equation, quite enjoy the pleasure from the pain and from pleasing the top/dom we are with

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Post #: 16

RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 5:35:15 AM

OwnedFemaleFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: winspiritsbaby
I understand the psychological definition of masochism which is that pleasure is taken from pain and/or humiliation.

The psychological definition is wrong. The proper definition of a masochist is one who acts like or has an interest in the behaviour described by the writer Leopold von Sacher-Masoch. He wrote about all kinds of things - pain, pleasure, cruelty, submission, fetishes, slave contracts and much more. His fantasies were mangled to fit the new-fangled 'science' of psychology, which needed labels for its project, and they chewed up the works of Masoch to get at them.

Masoch described (and seemingly related to) people who liked to be submissive to a powerful, dominant partner (in behaviour and appearance.) He wanted to be treated cruelly (physically, verbally and emotionally). He believed that in every relationship there was a 'hammer and an anvil' and he wanted to be the anvil. His work describes voluntary slave contracts between the characters, in which one would be the slave of the other for the mututal pleasure of both. There is some evidence that Masoch acted, or attempted to act out these fantasies in real life.

Ultimately, if you like to be submissive, or to be someone's slave, if you enjoy being treated painfully and cruelly by your partner then you are a masochist. This whole question of whether masochists find pain 'painful' or 'pleasurable' is really irrelevant and is a mislabelling of Masoch's ideas. It is the desire for cruel treatment which makes one a masochist, or not.

People often like to split BDSM into D/s (power and control) and s&m (physical play and pain) but in fact Masoch described all of this as one fetish. Those who would reject the label of masochist are often much closer to its description than they would guess.

owned xxx

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Post #: 17

RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 6:39:07 AM

Kana

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Oooooh, she hates, and I mean hateshateshates the pain. She twists, she cries, mewls, moans, whines, begs, grovels, pleads and suffers...buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut she absolutely adores the harsh control, the fact that I'll take what she would never give, that I'll make her suffer to slake my desires, and that I'll take her to the brink over and over again to do so.She loves (As in that wonderful love/hate/love thing slaves/subs have) the fact that I can and will treat her like a piece of meat, that I will just tear through all her pathetic id defenses and reduce her to a quivering piece of cunt meat.

My kink is power.
Hers is surrender.
All that we do are branches that spring from this main trunk.

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Post #: 18

RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 6:43:28 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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Kana? I...I think I love you. Marry me?

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Post #: 19

RE: Question about masochism - 7/14/2011 7:02:51 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Oooooh, she hates, and I mean hateshateshates the pain. She twists, she cries, mewls, moans, whines, begs, grovels, pleads and suffers...buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut she absolutely adores the harsh control, the fact that I'll take what she would never give, that I'll make her suffer to slake my desires, and that I'll take her to the brink over and over again to do so.She loves (As in that wonderful love/hate/love thing slaves/subs have) the fact that I can and will treat her like a piece of meat, that I will just tear through all her pathetic id defenses and reduce her to a quivering piece of cunt meat.

My kink is power.
Hers is surrender.
All that we do are branches that spring from this main trunk.

Beautifully stated. The foundation is mental; that you two play it out in a physical way is what you two (and many others) do.

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Post #: 20

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