RE: Mental Health (Full Version)

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Arpig -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 6:45:24 AM)

quote:

Certain types of killing are wrong. Certain types are not
Wrong yet again barely, all killing is wrong. It isn't always avoidable, but it's always wrong, always. There are, to the best of my knowledge, no exceptions listed in the sixth commandment.

Once again, barely, like killing, you are wrong, and you have no factual, ethical, or moral standing.



barelynangel -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 6:46:34 AM)

Oh fuck arpig don't make this what it isn't -- if you want to do that start a new fucking thread. 

And as for your brilliance of the use of homicide on death certificates -- its medically accurate.  The death certificate doesn't imply whether or not the killing was legal or not, it simply states killing.

It simply means human killing human and that is usually why its used synonymously with murder except murder is the illegal killing.

IF it is legal it is right until such time it is changed.  The concept of right is an arbitrary term arpig.  For you death penalty isn't right -- good for you i hope your work to change it is working.   For me until such time it isn't legal -- it is right.   I don't believe its wrong and so i am not working to change it.

We could sit here forever bring up specifics of what ifs or specific things.  But let me ask you this -- is it right for a 17 year old boy to bludgeon his parents to death with a hammer, leave them on the bed with all kinds of stuff on top of them and the hammer between then and then have i think it was 40 kids over for a party?  IS THAT RIGHT?

But let's make the consequences up to but not including death himself because it's simply not nice to kill someone.  Hell let's let all people out of prison  cause ya know its just not nice to keep them locked up in the conditions they are. 

I don't mind the death penalty -- after what i seen i believe it should be on the table more often.  But i also feel bad for the person being put to death and on death row.  But i don't believe it should be taken off the table.

In many states i am out voted -- good for them.  In some states i am not out voted -- good for them.

angel

angel



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 6:50:58 AM)

quote:

So get off YOUR high sanctimonious horse and quit acting like those people in prison are the only people in this world who have had it horribly tough and needed to fight to survive. That is completely disrespectful to people who made the right choices.
and that is completely disrespectful to people who have the ability to follow a fucking discussion. nobody said the people in prison were the only ones who had it tough, nobody, so why don't you explain what thread you were reading, so we can follow your train of thought, because its sure as fuck on a different track than everybody else. anyway, thanks for pitching in barely.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 6:53:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Certain types of killing are wrong. Certain types are not
Wrong yet again barely, all killing is wrong. It isn't always avoidable, but it's always wrong, always. There are, to the best of my knowledge, no exceptions listed in the sixth commandment.

Once again, barely, like killing, you are wrong, and you have no factual, ethical, or moral standing.

Actually, Arpig, the 6th commandment originally said "Thou shalt not commit murder"  It kinda got changed as a convenience.



barelynangel -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 6:59:17 AM)

No Arpig --- THAT IS YOUR belief, not mine.  Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it a blanket belief and true.    I believe there are times killing is right - the death penalty is one of those times.  Mind you i am not saying its easy for i know sentencing or fighting for someone to get the death penalty is not easy.  Do not generalize that.  Being right doesn't mean its easy.

I have no issue with my ethics or morals, they simply don't match yours. It's really that simple.  You can keep repeating yourself but it won't make you correct in your blanket statement.

angel



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:01:11 AM)

I think the myth of a country club prison, is just that, a myth. I don't disagree that they are rough and terrible places, and I am very disturbed at the violence level. I think it is wrong to incarcerate people and not keep them safe. However, not all prisons are the dark and dank places shown in those pictures. I live about 5 miles from a minimum security facility. It is in the woods, and the inmates are trained to fight forest fires and build and maintain trails. Not exactly a country club, but not exactly a dungeon either.
On the death penalty issue, I am just going to let the zealots continue to knash their teeth and spin around in circles on that one. Despite their obviously deeply held beliefs, I won't be attending any candlelight vigils demanding the end of the death penalty. The fact is, the issue of eliminating the death penalty is not even on the radar in this country. It is legal, and it is going to keep happening, and I don't think that is going to change in my lifetime. I can live with that, because I think some people are just too evil to live.




barelynangel -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:01:43 AM)

What's funny is my beliefs have nothing to do with religion as many people's beliefs do.  They were honed by life and experience as i am not a practicing religious or even practicing spiritual person. 

angel



LillyBoPeep -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:03:06 AM)

well what if the 6th commandment isn't the basis of your moral code?
one of humanity's oldest problems has been trying to force one moral code on others who hold a different one. it's a sign of a terribly out-of-control ego to jump up on a soapbox and expressly state "you're wrong!!" to someone whose morals don't agree. there is no one universal moral/ethical code on the planet. that's an attitude that starts wars, an attitude that deems someone as "less than" for not agreeing.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:03:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel



So get off YOUR high sanctimonious horse and quit acting like those people in prison are the only people in this world who have had it horribly tough and needed to fight to survive.   That is completely disrespectful to people who made the right choices.




Well Barley, that's barely sane, but nevermind, I do recall the post where you were waxing on and on how master pays for your nannies and all that, must be so easy to be sanctimonious with a sugar daddy, maybe you should find sugar daddies and mommies for all those people who are in prison... If they'd be kept in luxury, I doubt they'd feel the need to commit crimes and risk prison.




erieangel -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:07:59 AM)

Both of my examples are not of people not choosing the alternative. As I said, one client on probation is doing most everything he needs to do, though at the bare minimum and often not as much time in treatment as he is supposed to, though that is flexible in my program. He averages 4-5 hours with me a week and it is supposed to be 6 so it is not bad. The other is just so damaged that living in a group setting did not work for him. A best case scenario would have been that he went to a personal care home rather than a place designed to promote and foster independent living. These are young men, both of them 20, both of them coming out of foster care system, neither have any family or other natural supports, both of them severely mentally ill. The boy in jail was kicked out of his foster home the day he turned 18 and he's been either homeless or in prison since except for the few months he's lived in my program.

I really don't care how you feel about either of them, you don't strike me as a person who has all that much empathy toward her fellow human beings. The damaged ones are the ones who need our empathy more than anybody else. It is not to excuse their behavior, if I wanted to do that, I never would reported threats made to me. It is to show caring and hope that they are not always so damaged.



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:09:11 AM)

quote:

THAT IS YOUR belief, not mine.
and your belief is completely fucked.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:10:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


Actually, Arpig, the 6th commandment originally said "Thou shalt not commit murder"  It kinda got changed as a convenience.


Does depend on the translation, some bibles still use "Thou shall not kill", amazes me that people are vehemently pro guns (as far as I know a gun was made with the intent of firing bullets that kill, a knife you can use for cutting stuff, a gun has no other use), anti-abortion (as it would be killing life before it is actually capable of surviving outside the body) but then pro capital punishment. What really gets me is the religious nuts who kill doctors and nurses in abortion clinics and claim it's not murder... Force a mother to raise a child without the means, let the child grow up without chances, but no qualms about executing the child later... Can't really say I can get into that kinda logic.




HannahLynHeather -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:14:07 AM)

quote:

What's funny is my beliefs have nothing to do with reason as many people's beliefs do.
fyp



barelynangel -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:14:19 AM)

Bursts out laughing --  How sad that is all you have left.

Yep damn straight i grew up in privilege, i was kept in privilege as a slave, i live well.  So what?  Are you seriously sitting here telling people that only you or people who have had it hard know? 

angel



Hillwilliam -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:16:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


Actually, Arpig, the 6th commandment originally said "Thou shalt not commit murder"  It kinda got changed as a convenience.


Does depend on the translation, some bibles still use "Thou shall not kill", amazes me that people are vehemently pro guns (as far as I know a gun was made with the intent of firing bullets that kill, a knife you can use for cutting stuff, a gun has no other use), anti-abortion (as it would be killing life before it is actually capable of surviving outside the body) but then pro capital punishment. What really gets me is the religious nuts who kill doctors and nurses in abortion clinics and claim it's not murder... Force a mother to raise a child without the means, let the child grow up without chances, but no qualms about executing the child later... Can't really say I can get into that kinda logic.




I was referring to the OLD translations prior to King James. 

We'll have to ask Steven but I think the Torah has the same thing.

YO STEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRR  We gots a queshtun.



barelynangel -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:16:24 AM)

quote:

and your belief is completely fucked.


Bursts out laughing, great discussion Hannah.   But you only believe that because  i don't agree with you.  So let's put it in that view.  Here i will help  -- "your belief is completely fucked, because it doesn't agree with mine."

So do i get to say that about your belief now -- because it doesn't agree with me?


Oh and Hannah, get some integrity -- if you change a quote don't use the quote feature or actually say you changed what i actually said to put words in my mouth.  You may think its funny but it simply shows you lack integrity.

angel



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:17:15 AM)

quote:

Are you seriously sitting here telling people that only you or people who have had it hard know?
no, she's saying you're full of shit



HannahLynHeather -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:23:07 AM)

quote:


So do i get to say that about your belief now -- because it doesn't agree with me?
no, sorry, it doesn't work that way because my beliefs would be fucked if they did agree with you, but since they don't agree with your beliefs, then they are by definition, correct, sane, rational, fact based, verifiable, and not fucked.

quote:

Oh and Hannah, get some integrity -- if you change a quote don't use the quote feature or actually say you changed what i actually said to put words in my mouth.  You may think its funny but it simply shows you lack integrity.
well, you see, that's what "fyp" means doughnt hole, it means "i changed the wording of your post to make a point" so it has no baring on my fucking integrity as i specifically stated that i changed the wording. thanks for playing barely, but really now, you're in way over your fucking head here. try this site, it's a forum more appropriate for you level of development: http://betweentalk.com/forum.php



barelynangel -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:24:56 AM)

And?     It's the nature of a discussion board.   I have people who have like views and people who don't and have different views. 

I mean i guess we can all sit here and sling your full of shit -- no your full of shit arguement and then you come back or another with no you are full of shit X2 and then someone comes back with no your full of shit xinfinity!!  Then everyone asks what comes after infinity.  Oh yeah -- your full of shit xinfinity x2 and then people start arguing about how you can't multiply infinity.  

angel



erieangel -> RE: Mental Health (7/19/2011 7:27:37 AM)

LadyC, I face the consequences of that kind of logic everyday in my work. Damaged boys who have become men and never had a chance to be or do anything worthwhile. Some come to my program through the prison system, though we are not half-way house; some come from foster care; still others come from their parents homes when their parents decide they don't have to or want to deal with the problems associated with their mental illnesses any longer. And it can be tough for them. New-found freedoms are sometimes abused and the need to engage actively in treatment is sometimes lost on them.



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