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Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:08:36 PM   
subtlyAlpha


Posts: 41
Joined: 7/14/2011
From: The United States
Status: offline
(my very first thread outside of Intro! *happydance*)

This is something I've encountered a couple of times (and as I think about it, from the same 'demographic'), and I wanted to run it past the wide variety of opinions here, to see if I can get a better understanding of it.

I've been 'instructed' to call Dom's who I'm just starting to talk to (as in within the first few days) Sir.

It grates me. It makes me feel like they are demanding a level of 'respect' higher than the one that they have earned. It makes me feel like they are focusing on me as a submissive, rather than as a woman who submits. It makes me feel like they are trying to 'skip' the getting to know you part of a relationship, and heading full speed into 'kneel, bitch!'. It's usually accompanied by them calling me 'good girl' or 'little one', as well. *sideeye*

It's explained as being a matter of respect - as acknowledging them as Dominants, and respecting their position and authority. Well and good, from their point of view.

I'm new - I'll freely admit that. I only became consciously aware of my submissive tendencies about 9 months ago, and the one Dom that I had a brief (and long-distance) relationship with was, and is, a dear friend, so perhaps that's shaped my perspectives on how initial contacts and interactions should go. In my mind, there is a clear progression from one stage to another - stranger, acquaintance, friend, lover/Dominant. Those stages might take 3 years or 3 months to progress through, depending on the people involved - but it's a progression. It's not a leap from stranger to Dom, because that's the side of the dynamic they claim.
Play partners are a bit different, in my mind, as there isn't the same expectation that the individual who flogs me in the Club will ever be anything but a willing Top. And just because they are in the role of a Top, they might not even be a Dom/me.

I'm very polite, courteous, and diplomatic to a fault at times, and I tend to respect everyone - even those who have not yet 'earned' it. Being instructed to call someone I've just met in the lifestyle Sir, though? It - irks me. I feel like at the start of our interaction, we are equals - two humans approaching each other, and trying to learn enough about the other to see if we want to be more than ships passing in the choppy online waters. And there ain't no way they would call me Ma'am - nor would I want them to. Kiya is JUST fine.

To me, it seems like it would be more valuable to progress through a relationship to the point where I wanted to call them Sir. Where calling them Sir seemed simply natural. It would indicate a change in attitudes, perceptions, dynamic and expectations - on both sides of the kneel.

So.

Am I being unreasonable here? Is the progression of connection/relationship that much different in BDSM? Is it truly outlandish to expect to be able to consider a Dom a friend before one considers them their Dom? Is it exceptionally unsubby to believe I'm the equal of any Dom until we chose to enter into a power synergy/exchange relationship? (And I won't go into how I feel about equality as people/humans AFTER that. *wrygrin*)

And, perhaps the core question - how best do I express that I feel like they don't have the 'right' to demand a stranger call them Sir, without casting aspersions on their experience and dynamic? I usually handle it by not 'addressing' them at all.....

Thank y'all in advance for any insights on this....

K.



_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak.

My opinions/clarifications relate to me and my dynamic/potential dynamic, and those involved in it. No one else. Srsly.


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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:16:05 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		There are very, very few people on this site that I call Sir, or that I call Ma'am. And those who I DO CALL THAT, are people who I respect enough to do so ( even though I have never met them in person, their writings here have earned them my respect ).

CHOOSING to call someone Sir/Master/Ma'am, is just that. A personal choice. Even in a relationship, you make the choice to call that person what you choose ( of course, within a relationship, you may be required to call that person these names, but it is still a choice that you make )

Conversing with someone on the other side (CMAIL), in my opinion, is the same as conversing with them on this side. If I like the person, and I like what they have to say, and the communication has gone on long enough that I feel a sense of 'trust' in their words, and I respect what they have to say...then yes, sometimes I will add the title of respect to the correspondence.

It's still a choice though.

So...no. I don't think you are being unreasonable in NOT wanting to call them by titles. I think you are being smart in insisting that this be a choice you make....not one that is forced upon you.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:22:49 PM   
KenRath


Posts: 16
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline 		Calling someone Sir is not exclusive to the Lifestyle and it a good deal of cases is taught to some at a very young age. It is mostly a term of respect for someone as a human being reguardless of status.

So calling another Dom Sir does not seem to me an inappropriate instruction. However, the response you get from a Dom after doing so is something best discussed with your Dom if it is something that you do not appreciate.

In the end communication with your Dom can and likely will resolve the situation.

(in reply to subtlyAlpha)
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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:23:03 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Does a self-imposed title have much meaning?

I have a Master.
He never demanded that I call him that, and when I wished to it was a priviledge that was earned.

It was something that grated on me too. And no, your thoughts are not unreasonable.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:35:22 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline 		 
My view on honorifics is as follows:

They should ONLY be used for the one who owns you (or someone you deeply respect), as it's something that's EARNED, not given, and doing otherwise only CHEAPENS it.



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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:36:00 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlyAlpha
Am I being unreasonable here?


Your expectations are not unreasonable but your response to the issue ("It grates me.") is unreasonable to some degree. When you encounter someone whose methodology does not suit your own simply move on without the grating. "I usually handle it by not 'addressing' them at all....." is the best approach. There are jillions of folks who do this stuff and do it in the very manner you despise and do it quite successfully. If that approach is not your cup just move along and don't let it grate on you.

To me, it seems like it would be more valuable to progress through a relationship to the point where I wanted to call them Sir. Where calling them Sir seemed simply natural. It would indicate a change in attitudes, perceptions, dynamic and expectations - on both sides of the kneel.

While this is clearly the best approach for someone to take when interacting with you it's not necessarily the best approach for everyone simply because it works for you. There are just too many widely diverse folks involved in all of this to try to map out one really good way for everyone to maneuver.



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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:42:30 PM   
subtlyAlpha


Posts: 41
Joined: 7/14/2011
From: The United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenRath

Calling someone Sir is not exclusive to the Lifestyle and it a good deal of cases is taught to some at a very young age. It is mostly a term of respect for someone as a human being reguardless of status.

So calling another Dom Sir does not seem to me an inappropriate instruction. However, the response you get from a Dom after doing so is something best discussed with your Dom if it is something that you do not appreciate.

In the end communication with your Dom can and likely will resolve the situation.

I actually agree with the first bolded - and I've been known to call people outside of the lifestyle Sir or Ma'am without prompting - esp. if they are older than me, AND I don't know their name.

That isn't quite the situation, here.

And to the second bolded - if I HAD a Dom/me, this wouldn't be much of a question. I'd do as they instructed me to. I'm a 'free submissive' (saw that on another thread, and it's perfect!) as thus I have to plot my own path.

The essence of it is that these individuals are still strangers to me - perhaps just barely on the edge of being an acquaintance, and they are demanding this of me solely BECAUSE I identify as a submissive.

To the other posters - I don't know how much value a self-imposed title has. It depends on the title, and on what criteria they are using to grant it to themselves. I consider myself a Priestess. That's between me and my Gods, though, and I don't demand that other people call me that - or recognize that I see myself as one. Not their relationship. Not my right.
And yes, after a period of time of knowing someone, calling them Sir or Ma'am comes naturally to me. Master and Mistress I still draw a hard line at for those who are not in a relationship with the individual being addressed that way.

K.

_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak.

My opinions/clarifications relate to me and my dynamic/potential dynamic, and those involved in it. No one else. Srsly.



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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:45:02 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		You are to call me either Steven or DarkSteven.  Anything else I will have to earn.

As long as I'm not getting called "shithead", I figure I'm not being shown disrespect.


_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:45:49 PM   
subtlyAlpha


Posts: 41
Joined: 7/14/2011
From: The United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlyAlpha
Am I being unreasonable here?


Your expectations are not unreasonable but your response to the issue ("It grates me.") is unreasonable to some degree. When you encounter someone whose methodology does not suit your own simply move on without the grating. "I usually handle it by not 'addressing' them at all....." is the best approach. There are jillions of folks who do this stuff and do it in the very manner you despise and do it quite successfully. If that approach is not your cup just move along and don't let it grate on you.

To me, it seems like it would be more valuable to progress through a relationship to the point where I wanted to call them Sir. Where calling them Sir seemed simply natural. It would indicate a change in attitudes, perceptions, dynamic and expectations - on both sides of the kneel.

While this is clearly the best approach for someone to take when interacting with you it's not necessarily the best approach for everyone simply because it works for you. There are just too many widely diverse folks involved in all of this to try to map out one really good way for everyone to maneuver.




Oh, that's a GIVEN! *lol* Gods, I might have to add this disclaimer to my siggy - my opinions/clarifications relate to my and my dynamic/potential dynamic, and those involved in it. No one else. *lol*

Thank you, MasterSlaveLA - it does feel a bit 'cheap'.

K.

(how the heck do you multiquote?)

_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak.

My opinions/clarifications relate to me and my dynamic/potential dynamic, and those involved in it. No one else. Srsly.



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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:46:16 PM   
KenRath


Posts: 16
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline 		If you do not have a Dom then there is no one to instruct you to do anything. So in that reguard if you do not want to do it then tell them to go screw themselve.

The last part of my response was based on the assumption you have a Dom, so that is my bad.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:46:21 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I've been 'instructed' to call Dom's who I'm just starting to talk to (as in within the first few days) Sir.


Who gave you these "instructions"

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:48:55 PM   
subtlyAlpha


Posts: 41
Joined: 7/14/2011
From: The United States
Status: offline 		~fr~

;) Thanks DS! *lol*

KenRath - *lol* - I'm far too polite to tell someone that. *wrygrin*

Julia - why, the Dom's who want me to call them that, of course! *lol*

_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak.

My opinions/clarifications relate to me and my dynamic/potential dynamic, and those involved in it. No one else. Srsly.



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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:55:25 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlyAlpha


I've been 'instructed' to call Dom's who I'm just starting to talk to (as in within the first few days) Sir.

It grates me. It makes me feel like they are demanding a level of 'respect' higher than the one that they have earned. It makes me feel like they are focusing on me as a submissive, rather than as a woman who submits. It makes me feel like they are trying to 'skip' the getting to know you part of a relationship, and heading full speed into 'kneel, bitch!'. It's usually accompanied by them calling me 'good girl' or 'little one', as well. *sideeye*
Sounds like you've got a good grip on the situation.



quote:

It's explained as being a matter of respect - as acknowledging them as Dominants, and respecting their position and authority.
Okay, I'm the Queen of England, call me "Your Majesty". You can label yourself as anything you'd like, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you are what you say you are. And honestly, someone that pushes the "Sir" from a complete stranger is just a chest thumper.

quote:

In my mind, there is a clear progression from one stage to another - stranger, acquaintance, friend, lover/Dominant. Those stages might take 3 years or 3 months to progress through, depending on the people involved - but it's a progression.
It's no different than a vanilla relationship.

quote:

Am I being unreasonable here?
Nope. Stick to your guns. Keep searcing for someone that wants what you bring to the table.

quote:

how best do I express that I feel like they don't have the 'right' to demand a stranger call them Sir, without casting aspersions on their experience and dynamic?
I usually explain that I reserve the word "Sir" for people that I know in real life and that have earned my respect.

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:56:29 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Yeah I'm taken and I still get emails demanding it of me. I simply don't even respond at all and just delete...always have, always will.

If you want to be called "Sir" and you aren't my Master, then my suggestion to such men is to visit the grocery store and if you look old enough I'm sure they'll be more than happy to call you Sir. lol



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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 6:56:59 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

As long as I'm not getting called "shithead", I figure I'm not being shown disrespect.

Well fiddlefuck...there goes that idea

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 7:03:57 PM   
subtlyAlpha


Posts: 41
Joined: 7/14/2011
From: The United States
Status: offline 		~FR~

Thank you Oside! I like your response - I'll have to keep that one in mind.

LW - hah! True! I've gotta admit, I still twitch when the lovely cashier calls me Ma'am. *twitch* To be fair, it's never shown up in the FIRST email. That would get deleted, too. ;)

K.



_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak.

My opinions/clarifications relate to me and my dynamic/potential dynamic, and those involved in it. No one else. Srsly.



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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 7:08:04 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		One of the biggest problems I see these days are newbie fem subs who jump into relationships too quickly. Generally they meet someone online (which is fine, many people meet that way these days), but then they seem to think all the relationship rules fly out the window when one is seeking a dom as a partner.

Very early on they allow the dom to push them into a dom/sub dynamic, even though the two hardly know each other and have never met. One of the first ways to do this is to demand being called "Sir."

It has never bothered me, I use it as a filter. Someone who demands, asks or even just expects "Sir" early on is too focused on the dynamic and not focused on me and having us get to know each other.

BTW: I have the same issue with s-types who want to call me Ma'am or Mistress or gawd forbid, Goddess.

This is a relationship search like any other. The two of you don't have a dynamic, unless and until you *mutually* agree you have one. Until then, you have a period of exploration which in my mind should be kept as equal as possible.

OP, your thinking appears to be quite sensible. There are many posers and desktop doms on the other side, it takes time and patience to wade through the crap, but the rare gems *are* there.










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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 7:10:47 PM   
subtlyAlpha


Posts: 41
Joined: 7/14/2011
From: The United States
Status: offline 		Thank you, Chatte! I've got to admit, I tend to find myself nodding in agreement with most of your font.

And yes, that is one of the things about calling someone 'Sir' - it seems to invite a slippery slope of engaging too quickly and without the appropriate vetting.

K.

_____________________________

That which yields is not always weak.

My opinions/clarifications relate to me and my dynamic/potential dynamic, and those involved in it. No one else. Srsly.



(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 7:21:55 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		From what I can see, you're doing just fine.

Just a quick thought on the matter.  My screen name is Lady Pact.  That's My scene name, too.  Some people consider the "Lady" part also to be an honorific.  I don't have an issue if they see it that way.  They always have the option of calling Me "LP" or "Pact" or anything else that gives Me some indication that they are talking to Me.  (Shortening it to just "Lady" can be confusing, because a lot of us have that as the first part of a screen name.)  I don't mind being called Ma'am if, like as Irish Mist mentioned, it's somebody doing it because they do have respect for Me from knowing Me.  Aside from that, it's really not that big of a deal and those who try to make it into one are generally the ones who are dealing in online fantasy.  This internet site isn't a high protocol event and everybody here who isn't in a dynamic is just as free to deal with others as they see fit.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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RE: Early Use of Honorifics.. - 7/19/2011 7:28:25 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

One of the biggest problems I see these days are newbie fem subs who jump into relationships too quickly


This is nothing new, it was going on several years ago when I first discovered wiitwd.


quote:

but then they seem to think all the relationship rules fly out the window when one is seeking a dom as a partner


Same story as ever... nothing new here either.


I can honestly say I never thought I "had to" call anyone anything I did not feel like calling them. At one point I used to feel I had to answer every email that was sent to me, but even that ended once it became apparent that they did not read my profile, were disrespectful, and expected more from me than they had a right to.

I never understood why people feel that all of society's conventions end just because of the types of relationships we enjoy.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
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