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RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 8:20:33 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline 		Really? You want regime change instead of a democratic election?

Regime change can occur through conquest by a foreign power, revolution, coup d'etat or reconstruction following the failure of a state.

(in reply to ArizonaBossMan)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 8:32:56 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

This is what happens when you have rabid people in elected office..... it kinda shows you that some on the right that post here are cut from the same cloth.


The three most rabid people in elected office in recent memory are Alan Grayson, Anthony Wiener and DW Schultz..all Dems.


No kidding?

Thank God Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin, and Mitch McConnell don't qualify.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 8:35:00 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline 		I think this guy should at least make the short list.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/17/cain-opposing-mosque-construction-is-not-discrimination/

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 8:36:08 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Frankly we need more Congressmen like West and Joe Wilson who call it like it is... The time for "civility" is long past, thanks to Mr Obama. 


The time for civility ended with Reagan and his ass kissing of Falwell's Moral Majority.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 10:54:04 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The time for "civility" is long past, thanks to Mr Obama.
quote:

It did indeed all start with usurper Obama


Then find some Republican candidates whose minds aren't so weak that they are so susceptible to Obama's voodoo powers.

Honestly. Personal responsibility is long past too, apparently.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 10:59:39 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Frankly we need more Congressmen like West and Joe Wilson who call it like it is... The time for "civility" is long past, thanks to Mr Obama. 


The time for civility ended with Reagan and his ass kissing of Falwell's Moral Majority.



Can I get an "Aaaaaaaaaa-a-aaaa-men!"


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:09:05 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Frankly we need more Congressmen like West and Joe Wilson who call it like it is... The time for "civility" is long past, thanks to Mr Obama. 


The time for civility ended with Reagan and his ass kissing of Falwell's Moral Majority.



Can I get an "Aaaaaaaaaa-a-aaaa-men!"



The time for civility is long since over.  We need a balanced budget amendment.  Period.  Democrats should want that.  Republicans should want that.  Independents should want that.  Libertarians should want that.  Green party people should want that. You should want that.  I should want that.

If I lived outside of my means and said "ooops...sorry, I really wanted that Mercedes and the parties were fun too.  I'm just a little over budget by $200,000.00.  I'm just going to take that from the public trust...you know...your tax payer dollars and the tax payer dollars of your friends, neighbors, relatives etc."  Would you support that?  No.  So why would you support it from the government?

What would happen if we had a balanced budget amendment?  If government absolutely had to live within its means, what would happen?  Would there be a decrease in social spending and welfare?  Sure.  But doesn't there need to be?  Would there be a reduction in the defense budget?  Sure.  But isn't some careful cutting of that budget necessary?  Would there be less military adventurism?  Absolutely...but how many times in the past 30 years have we "really" been engaged in defending a vital national interest?  Should we be the backbone of NATO?  If we were energy independent, wouldn't our vital, national interests change dramatically?  Wouldn't our military spend more time on the border with Mexico than Afghanistan?  If there was a balanced budget amendment, wouldn't there have to be a major overhaul of the tax system that would almost certainly include a fair tax and a federal sales tax?

There is no time for civility.  This is the time that change is demanded...forced.  If the change doesn't work, well, we will be no more fucked than we are now.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:11:52 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

The time for civility is long since over.  We need a balanced budget amendment.  Period.  Democrats should want that.  Republicans should want that.  Independents should want that.  Libertarians should want that.  Green party people should want that. You should want that.  I should want that.


The problem is that one side wants it all their way, and they do not want to raise taxes to cover our obligations... as long as one side expects to have everything their way, there cannot be any balanced anything in government.

It comes down to some of us believe that good government needs funds to operate, and others would be happy if we had no government at all.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:16:32 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Frankly we need more Congressmen like West and Joe Wilson who call it like it is... The time for "civility" is long past, thanks to Mr Obama. 


The time for civility ended with Reagan and his ass kissing of Falwell's Moral Majority.



Can I get an "Aaaaaaaaaa-a-aaaa-men!"


Amen!

That's what got me to register Democrat.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:25:27 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

The time for civility is long since over.  We need a balanced budget amendment.  Period.  Democrats should want that.  Republicans should want that.  Independents should want that.  Libertarians should want that.  Green party people should want that. You should want that.  I should want that.


The problem is that one side wants it all their way, and they do not want to raise taxes to cover our obligations... as long as one side expects to have everything their way, there cannot be any balanced anything in government.

It comes down to some of us believe that good government needs funds to operate, and others would be happy if we had no government at all.


But that is where you are wrong.  We don't need a tax increase.  We have the revenue.  We spend it extravagantly.  You want to increase tax revenue?  Fine...do a fair tax and a federal income tax.  Everyone of all income brackets pays a certain percentage and people pay a sales tax on everything they buy.  So all Americans and non-Americans are payers into the system.  A tax increase?  That is ridiculous.  When you increase taxes (and you would arguably only increase the taxes on the rich who only make up 2% of the population) you only cause those being taxed to find more innovative ways of hiding or REDUCING their income.  Why would you look to tax only 2% when you could tax 100% and millions more that aren't even included in the percentage?  That does not make sense.  What are you trying to avoid, Julia?  Are you trying to avoid paying taxes?  You don't think you should pay 10% of your income?  Are you trying to avoid a Federal sales tax?  What is it you are trying to get away from that you would want to look to only 2-10% of the country to carry the weight for the remaining 90% and the illegal population?

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 7/22/2011 11:36:15 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:41:59 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

But that is where you are wrong.  We don't need a tax increase.  We have the revenue.  We spend it extravagantly. 



What is our single largest expenditure of tax revenue? And do not count social security because that is a set aside program that should not even be talked about in regard to deficit spending.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:43:32 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

But that is where you are wrong.  We don't need a tax increase.  We have the revenue.  We spend it extravagantly. 



What is our single largest expenditure of tax revenue? And do not count social security because that is a set aside program that should not even be talked about in regard to deficit spending.


Why are you asking me a question without answering my question?  Try answering my questions first and then posit whatever your argument is and your questions and then I will do my best to answer your questions.  That is a discussion.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:47:34 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I do not see many questions in your post to me, I see question marks, but those questions seem largely rhetorical and designed to sell the idea we do not need tax increases.... okay, I am biting, we don't increase taxes... where do we cut? What is left to cut? Where is the vast majority of our tax dollars that we are spending so extravagantly going?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:47:44 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

We have the revenue.


He's another one who doesn't get that trimming a few million here, a couple billion there, from a trillion dollar deficit, is exactly like throwing $1 and a few $1,000 cuts at a million dollar deficit. Very small "help," and certainly NOT a solution.


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/22/2011 12:03:07 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:50:33 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

I think this guy should at least make the short list.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/17/cain-opposing-mosque-construction-is-not-discrimination/


Why, because he understands the law, apparently better than you do?

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:56:23 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not see many questions in your post to me, I see question marks, but those questions seem largely rhetorical and designed to sell the idea we do not need tax increases.... okay, I am biting, we don't increase taxes... where do we cut? What is left to cut? Where is the vast majority of our tax dollars that we are spending so extravagantly going?


Very disingenuous post.  I asked you direct questions, nothing rhetorical.  I asked why you wanted 2-10% of the country to carry the freight for the remaining 90% and the illegal population when you could have a flat income tax and a federal sales tax that would be revenue positive.  You didn't answer that question.  Please answer it now.

I asked whether you felt it was fair for you to pay 10% of your income to the federal government and a federal sales tax and you did not answer that question.  Please answer it now.

That's right...we do not need a tax increase.  We need a fair system of taxation that is revenue positive and it is at our fingertips but people like you oppose it.  I want to know why you oppose it, Julia.  Please answer that question.

So...where do we cut spending?  We can cut it everywhere, Julia.  The government could (but won't) call for a 10% reduction in all departments and programs across the board...one fast, surgical swipe.  But they won't.

There is a study being done where the government is paying people for toe nail clippings to have them analyzed for nicotine.  Ok....for fuck sake!  None of us believes that smoking cigs is healthy like drinking a glass of orange juice...ok?  We all know there are dangers and the extent of those dangers depend on amount of usage and genetics.  Do we really need this study?  There was a study years ago about whether potatoes "mate".  No fucking kidding.  Do we need that study?  Do we need to fund PBS and NPR and cowboy poetry readings?  Shouldn't the public fund the "extra curricular" things they like with their own charity?  There was a study in the past year or two about the dating habits of girls at Syracuse University?  Really?  Public money for that?

Ok...Julia I have asked you some very direct questions.  Please answer them.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 11:58:34 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Do we need to fund PBS and NPR...

If we fund Faux, (which we do) then yes...we need to increase that budget 10 fold.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 12:04:59 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
Folks--if we cut EVERYTHING outside of defense, SS, medicaid/medicare, and interest on the debt--it STILL wouldn't erase the deficit. DOES EVERYBODY GET THAT??? This means cuts in defense, cuts in entitlements, and increasing revenue. Anything else is just fantasy.


Not political opinion--simple mathematics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/budget-2010/

Anything else just isn't going to address the deficit.

And yes, that's gonna slow the economy. Welcome to reality, Ye Partisans on All Sides.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/22/2011 12:06:42 PM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 12:12:23 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


Folks--if we cut EVERYTHING outside of defense, SS, medicaid/medicare, and interest on the debt--it STILL wouldn't erase the deficit. DOES EVERYBODY GET THAT??? This means cuts in defense, cuts in entitlements, and increasing revenue. Anything else is just fantasy.


Not political opinion--simple mathematics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/budget-2010/

Anything else just isn't going to address the deficit.

And yes, that's gonna slow the economy. Welcome to reality, Ye Partisans on All Sides.




Jesus Christ...was that necessary?  Do you feel like you have accomplished something by writing in a large font?  I will admit that the blue is a nice color but you have added nothing to the discussion.

NO ONE believes that cutting everything by 10% will erase the debt.  No one is asking for the debt to be erased. LOLOLOLOL  If the debt showed a small but steady decline because of better management, that would be fine.  The debt could take a 100 years to bring down to the level it was during the Ford and Carter years and I don't think anyone would care as long as the debt clock was running, albeit slowly, in reverse. 

Now...I'm still waiting for Julia to answer my questions.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Bringing civility back to congress. - 7/22/2011 12:17:05 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

If the debt showed a small but steady decline because of better management, that would be fine.


See, even bold and in blue, you don't get it.

The debt is NOT going to show ANY decline--it's going to continue to grow larger. It might grow more slowly with some cuts, but it's going to continue to grow larger and larger, because there will still be an annual deficit.

Without defense cuts, entitlement scalebacks, and increased revenue, the debt will continue to grow. Mathematics.

I even linked you to the numbers. I know you hate research so.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 40
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