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RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/23/2011 6:37:30 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

The quality of our partners reflects the quality of our character in any relationship. What is that saying? "You judge a man by the company he keeps"?

Of course, in a D/S relationship, I think it extends a little bit beyond that rule of the thumb. When one person is conforming to the personal preferences of another, the person's style of dress, physical appearance and mannerisms become a reflection of those preferences. Alternatively, when someone make a degree of their happiness dependent on the approval of another, the state of that person's mental health becomes a reflection of the leadership skills of the other person.

So, like all one-liners, there is some practical merit to it. However, I think people tend to take this notion too far, particularly in fictional literature, misrepresenting the influence and power a dominant has over a submissive to god-like proportions.

I have yet to feel like some artisan, molding my submissive, like a ball of clay, into my own personal vision. Usually, I am just happy when I can get them to take out the goddamn trash consistently.





M didn't grab me to mould me, he liked what I already was. :)

Ok, there's bits he's not that fond of, but I'm not fond of those bits either:) ( I do like some of them, though)

I'm very different to M and my outlook isn't exactly the same, either. It's pretty close but different enough for me not to care about everything that he does. Despite that, he still owns me.

We reflect the ethos we have individually. He appreciates mine and I appreciate his.

I live a bohemian type of life , he lives a much more structured one........we end up complimenting each other.

Overall, it's clear that we respect each other and are loyal to the other's view because we understand why we hold them and understand the importance.

I think we (M and I) are an indication of the type of person that we are attracted to.

I do not behave well because of M, I behave well because of ME. When I don't behave well, my first bother is letting myself down, not that I've let M down.

I don't need M to describe how a fairly decent person ought behave. He must trust that I will behave in a way that is acceptable to us both, despite faintly disparate lifestyles. And I have to trust that he can understand a lifestyle that isn't like his own.

I can understand the reflection thing up to a point. My youngest sons make me look like the most Superb Parent.....I'm content with that, but I am also perfectly aware that they'd make anyone look good, on their own merits.

M can only secure my following by it making sense to do so. In conclusion, it's going to say something about HIM that he picked me, and it's going to do the same in reverse.

What we really care about is being *in it together*....That affects us both. Maybe it's been said already............ but the fact that we're together says that we *approve* of each other, not of EVERYTHING about each other.

PS. The trash is the easiest part of it:)

agirl









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RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/23/2011 6:50:34 PM   
DecadentDesire


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Joined: 6/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
PS. The trash is the easiest part of it:)

agirl


Really? Do you by chance have a younger sister, or perhaps even, daughter, who's single and looking for a bossy, controlling, overbearing male?

Even though that statement was a tongue-in-cheek attempt to poke a little fun over the omnipotent power of the Dominant, I'm actually frequently surprised how much the issue of the trash IS an issue for me. It's probably due to the age range of girls I date.


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/23/2011 7:40:48 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
PS. The trash is the easiest part of it:)

agirl


Really? Do you by chance have a younger sister, or perhaps even, daughter, who's single and looking for a bossy, controlling, overbearing male?

Even though that statement was a tongue-in-cheek attempt to poke a little fun over the omnipotent power of the Dominant, I'm actually frequently surprised how much the issue of the trash IS an issue for me. It's probably due to the age range of girls I date.



I seriously have no idea why popping a bag of rubbish in a bin could possibly be a problem.

Unless you're dating very spoiled and idle 13 yr olds ?? :)

BUT.....My son's don't even SEE rubbish unless it's spilling onto the floor. ( I've waited to see how long it'd take) Yet the moment I say, * That bag needs serious attention, chaps!* They are right on the case!  That don't seem to *see* it until it's pointed out. Yes, I think they are fuckwits in that area....but they are brill in others.

BUT.........I remember years ago that my eldest son said * Mummy, I TRY to see what needs doing but I just DON'T. PLEASE just leave a list, TELL me, point it out, itemise it and I'll do it willingly. So I did that.......... and hey presto............he meant it.

I have to say though, dear Rabbit, that M rarely gives a flying crap about rubbish, washing up, messes in the bedroom, wet towels or other down to earth stuff like the rubbish:)............and I'd hate him to change. I think it's probably due to the age range of bloke I got tied up with.......grin

agirl

















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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/23/2011 9:14:39 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		To me, it makes sense in three ways.

For starters, just looking at Carol as my chosen life partner she is clearly a reflection of me. She is, after all, my choice. An astute person could learn a lot about me simply by knowing her.

Then, due to the TPE nature of our relationship, I am very directly and sometimes very deeply molding and shaping her. Looking at the finished product again says a lot about me. It is the product of my own hand.

Finally, looking at the smile that lives on her face so frequently also, I'd like to believe, says a lot about me. This may be the most important thing I'd like someone to know about me. I may or may not be true this or true that and honestly I don't care. But what I truly am is a guy who adores his wife and is really good at translating that into action. You wouldn't need to know Carol for more than about 10 minutes in any context at all to figure that out.

So yes, I believe that people's partners are reflections of them... not just subs.. partners and circle of acquaintances in general. Your dom/mentor is also a reflection of you. He is the man you have chosen and respect. Like Carol, he is your choice and I could learn some really interesting things about you simply by learning about him. People don't exist in a vacuum. We are social creatures. And the one of the strongest social bonds of all is with one's primary partner.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/23/2011 11:22:53 PM   
FelineFae


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Joined: 1/23/2009
From: i do wander everywhere...
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quote:

He tells me that he gains submission by bolstering confidence and improving self esteem.


In most relationships, each partner should add to the confidence and self esteem of the other. A partner that detracts from the other's sense of confidence and self-worth is called "toxic" and it's not long before your real friends start refering you to an abuse hot-line. Just sayin'.

quote:

Then he said something I hadn't heard yet, that a submissive is a direct reflection of her Dominant.


Yep.


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/24/2011 5:08:22 AM   
mysouldesire


Posts: 85
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Correct.  A sub is a reflection of his/her Dominant.

1. The Dom chose him/her.  E.g., if I choose an alcoholic, lying girl who has no manners, it broadcasts that I am a desperate man who chose anyone.
2. He/she chose the Dom.  Assuming he/she had a choice, then this Dom "won out" over the others.  A vote of confidence.
3. He/she reflects good or bad treatment.  A sub who is healthy and happy implies that his/her Dom treats him/her well.





Correct, a dominant is a relection of his/her submissive

When 2 individuals are insink, into each other, have the same interests, are honest, caring, have good communication...it doesnt matter what label they wear.......

Since when can one indivudal train another not to lie, not to be an alcoholic, not to be an asshole, etc? One must choose to not be a liar, boozer and asshole.

From where I come from, self esteem is not gained by encouraging me or attempting to give me confidence, it is gain by acceptance in who I am and helping me to be better than I am. Women/submissives are not the only peopl;e on this planet who lack self confidence, self esteem.

When M seems to have a bad day and is in the pits, what do I do? Say he's a relfection of me and oh poor me I had a bad day....NO !!

Why do we lack common sense? Dominant men/women are not heros and are not the only creatures who have it all together.

Men:women reflect each other, their inner spirits, NOT labels.

Edited to add:
What Jeff said in his final paragraph.

< Message edited by mysouldesire -- 7/24/2011 5:11:14 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/24/2011 7:56:53 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

I'm actually frequently surprised how much the issue of the trash IS an issue for me. It's probably due to the age range of girls I date.


Nah, I lived with a 40-something man and woman and they did not see the trash either. She worked part time and it was her job to clean but despite numerous family meetings, it was never done to my satisfaction. After I announced my intention to move out (there were other factors of course) he offered to get a 2/2 so I would have my own bathroom, but by this time I was no longer willing to share a kitchen either.

Back on topic - when I threw a dinner party for a Dom who had me under consideration, he was a tad anxious because my performance would be a reflection on him. I was not nervous, as he'd given me no notice, and all my energy was focused on the task at hand. (It came out quite well, despite the serious scrounging I had to do to make a nice meal for four without going shopping.)

(in reply to DecadentDesire)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/24/2011 9:42:41 AM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae





quote:

He tells me that he gains submission by bolstering confidence and improving self esteem.


In most relationships, each partner should add to the confidence and self esteem of the other. A partner that detracts from the other's sense of confidence and self-worth is called "toxic" and it's not long before your real friends start refering you to an abuse hot-line. Just sayin'.

quote:

Then he said something I hadn't heard yet, that a submissive is a direct reflection of her Dominant.


Yep.




Actually, I know all about toxic relationships, I've been in them most of my life. Most I have ended, but there is one I can not. I have a sister who is very toxic to me.

(in reply to FelineFae)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/24/2011 10:17:54 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae





quote:

He tells me that he gains submission by bolstering confidence and improving self esteem.


In most relationships, each partner should add to the confidence and self esteem of the other. A partner that detracts from the other's sense of confidence and self-worth is called "toxic" and it's not long before your real friends start refering you to an abuse hot-line. Just sayin'.

quote:

Then he said something I hadn't heard yet, that a submissive is a direct reflection of her Dominant.


Yep.




Actually, I know all about toxic relationships, I've been in them most of my life. Most I have ended, but there is one I can not. I have a sister who is very toxic to me.



My toxic relationship with my youngest sister was the easiest one for me to end.. Simply ignore her.

As for a sub/slave being a reflection on their dom...to a point yes. For the most part I do my best not to make him look bad in any light and before he even chose me I was not the type of person to reflect bad even upon myself because I simply don't like to be looked upon as a fool.

But there is a point where we have to remember that there is a person who has their own values, likes, dislikes, etc...that were there and always will be there before the Dom came along and will be there after he's gone. The thing is those are things he saw and knew about coming into the relationship and he obviously doesn't find a problem with those things or aren't as big a deal to destroy us.




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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/26/2011 6:22:57 PM   
Awareness


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Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline 		  Remember.  There are no stupid questions.  Only stupid people.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/26/2011 6:37:50 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I'm always somewhat torn on the "reflection" idea.

He and I are reflections of what kinds of people we admire and are attracted to, yes.

But he chose me because he thought I was pretty cool as-is, and he's not going about changing me into his own image.  I am a reflection of the rules he puts on me, and of the joy I feel from being in his life, and he's a reflection of the kind of woman that's important to him, and of the joy he feels from being in my life.

We influence each other, yes, but I'm not so sure we reflect each other.


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/26/2011 7:12:01 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		Thank you all for the serious and thoughtful responses. As in everything, there are many opinions and I had thoughts about myself, just wanted to see what others had to say about the issue.

And, littlewonder, yeah, I tend to ignore to ignore my older sister. Luckily we don't live in the same state and don't see one another often. But when our mom was ill and in the hospital, from which we knew she'd never come home, my sister came to Erie and spent more than a week sitting at her beside watching her die. I couldn't do that. Though time off was available to me I went to work just to keep busy and you wouldn't believe the fights we had about that!! My younger sister and brother didn't sit at her beside either, but they both passes because of their personal obligations, but I am still criticized months after the fact...

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/28/2011 4:37:01 PM   
HardtotheKore


Posts: 78
Joined: 7/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Recently I have been chatting with a Dom who seems to know what he is talking about...

He tells me that he gains submission by bolstering confidence and improving self esteem.

He said that vanilla interests are just as important...A lot of things that are common sense and which I already knew.

Then he said something I hadn't heard yet, that a submissive is a direct reflection of her Dominant.

To me that makes some sense, but I would like to get further thoughts on this as He did not elaborate much on the idea.


Lucky for you that you've found one that "seems" to know what he's talking about.
The key word is "seems"
"bolstering confidence and improving self esteem" Generally text book psychology and you likely have confidence and self esteem or you would have never asked these questions. It looks like you're questioning, that is what you should do.
"direct reflection of her Dominant" isn't very original but truth to it only IF you're a true submissive to the Master
"He did not elaborate much" because he doesn't have a clue. The earlier statement is the "essence" of how two become one.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/28/2011 4:43:13 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardtotheKore

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Recently I have been chatting with a Dom who seems to know what he is talking about...

He tells me that he gains submission by bolstering confidence and improving self esteem.

He said that vanilla interests are just as important...A lot of things that are common sense and which I already knew.

Then he said something I hadn't heard yet, that a submissive is a direct reflection of her Dominant.

To me that makes some sense, but I would like to get further thoughts on this as He did not elaborate much on the idea.


Lucky for you that you've found one that "seems" to know what he's talking about.
The key word is "seems"
"bolstering confidence and improving self esteem" Generally text book psychology and you likely have confidence and self esteem or you would have never asked these questions. It looks like you're questioning, that is what you should do.
"direct reflection of her Dominant" isn't very original but truth to it only IF you're a true submissive to the Master
"He did not elaborate much" because he doesn't have a clue. The earlier statement is the "essence" of how two become one.



Well aren't you just as cheerful as can be? You don't know this guy, and everything we've heard about him has been positive. Why assume the worst?


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/28/2011 4:48:02 PM   
HardtotheKore


Posts: 78
Joined: 7/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardtotheKore

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Recently I have been chatting with a Dom who seems to know what he is talking about...

He tells me that he gains submission by bolstering confidence and improving self esteem.

He said that vanilla interests are just as important...A lot of things that are common sense and which I already knew.

Then he said something I hadn't heard yet, that a submissive is a direct reflection of her Dominant.

To me that makes some sense, but I would like to get further thoughts on this as He did not elaborate much on the idea.


Lucky for you that you've found one that "seems" to know what he's talking about.
The key word is "seems"
"bolstering confidence and improving self esteem" Generally text book psychology and you likely have confidence and self esteem or you would have never asked these questions. It looks like you're questioning, that is what you should do.
"direct reflection of her Dominant" isn't very original but truth to it only IF you're a true submissive to the Master
"He did not elaborate much" because he doesn't have a clue. The earlier statement is the "essence" of how two become one.



Well aren't you just as cheerful as can be? You don't know this guy, and everything we've heard about him has been positive. Why assume the worst?



Who's assume the worst?
And since you don't know me, I am quite cheerful.
But then again, an opinion is only that.

< Message edited by HardtotheKore -- 7/28/2011 4:49:33 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/28/2011 4:53:44 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardtotheKore
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardtotheKore

Lucky for you that you've found one that "seems" to know what he's talking about.
The key word is "seems"
"bolstering confidence and improving self esteem" Generally text book psychology and you likely have confidence and self esteem or you would have never asked these questions. It looks like you're questioning, that is what you should do.
"direct reflection of her Dominant" isn't very original but truth to it only IF you're a true submissive to the Master
"He did not elaborate much" because he doesn't have a clue. The earlier statement is the "essence" of how two become one.



Who's assume the worst?
And since you don't know me, I am quite cheerful.
But then again, an opinion is only that.


I took the liberty of bolding some things.


_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/28/2011 4:57:40 PM   
HardtotheKore


Posts: 78
Joined: 7/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardtotheKore
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardtotheKore

Lucky for you that you've found one that "seems" to know what he's talking about.
The key word is "seems"
"bolstering confidence and improving self esteem" Generally text book psychology and you likely have confidence and self esteem or you would have never asked these questions. It looks like you're questioning, that is what you should do.
"direct reflection of her Dominant" isn't very original but truth to it only IF you're a true submissive to the Master
"He did not elaborate much" because he doesn't have a clue. The earlier statement is the "essence" of how two become one.



Who's assume the worst?
And since you don't know me, I am quite cheerful.
But then again, an opinion is only that.


I took the liberty of bolding some things.


That's great but it's still an opinion and only that (Once again)
To politely remind, the topic does begin in the first post.

(in reply to Epytropos)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/28/2011 5:14:33 PM   
coookie


Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline 		I think the guy has his head screwed on right and seems to have a clue about what he is doing.
As she stated later in the thread (often it is helpful to read beyond the first post) that he had elaborated upon it.

Welcome to collarme though and you are allowed to post in sections other than "ask a master" just so ya know

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/28/2011 5:15:56 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		He did not elaborate much because I needed to go. Incidentally, I haven't gotten around to asking him what he'd meant by it either. I am trying to keep things vanilla between us for now, as we don't know one another well. We did meet, however. Though we live in the same county, he was considerate enough to suggest a coffee shop to which I could walk, even though he had to drive several extra miles. We sat in the shop several hours and talked nonstop, though we got off to slow start because I turned quiet at first. He helped me to find my comfort zone.

As to my confidence and self-esteem. You don't know me and it happens to be quite easy to project myself in a confident manner online with strangers. However, in truth I tend to be very shy and uncertain in social situations. Things online are seldom how they seem, though I have yet to find any complaint with this particular man.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: This might be a stupid question but... - 7/28/2011 5:27:17 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		I'm in the reflection camp... and in some ways, the boy is reflected in the dominant... my example is boots...

if my boy and I are out, and her boots are trashed.. that reflects on me.. if she looks sloppy and not put together, that reflects on me...now, she would never look sloppy or not put together (that's why she's MINE) and also

if my boots look like crap... that reflects on her... as in 'what kind of boy would let her dominant go out with grubby boots?' .... she's a bootblack, and boots are important to me...

does that help?



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(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 40
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