Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 2:00:48 AM)

http://translate.google.no/translate?hl=no&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fartikkel.php%3Fart%2520id%3D10080610

Google Translate may not be the best, but this is pretty clear: "In online debates marks Anders Behring Breivik as well read, and one with strong opinions about Norwegian politics. He promotes a very conservative opinions, which he also called nationalist. He expresses himself strongly opposed to multiculturalism - that cultural differences can live together in a community. "



Charnegui -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 2:07:55 AM)

Just another idiot, who didn't had the right to have a permit to own fire-arms.
87 death at this minute and who'll know how many more will die.
Dressed up like a policeman and carried weapons. He is also believed to have planted the bomb that went of yesterday afternoon.

He has a history on Facebook, expressing himself against muslims and we call it not a terrorist, but an extremist.
The Norwegian King and Prime-minister went into hiding last night. Just heard the prime-minister say, he was going to adress those youngsters later on today.



Aneirin -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 2:30:04 AM)

So, of the extremists that inhabit so many online forums, how many of them will take a step further and become a terrorist, how about here for instance, how many potential terrorists post here ?

But what does it take for an extremist to become a terrorist, what trips them over the edge to make their prejudices become reasons to kill others ?

But when a terrorist acts who is it that is their target, the people they bare prejudice against, or just people regardless of their beliefs, how would a terrorist be able to discriminate from those they don't like and those who are no problem to them, as is indicated in the indescriminate use of bombs. And as for shooting people, in order to add weight to one's beliefs, surely a terrorist should be asking the victims what they believe first, as to not just makes the terrorst an out and out killer nothing else, a mad dog in society and a threat to it.

But a question might be asked, what makes an extremist, what propels people on forums to spew hate and bile ?




DomKen -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 2:40:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://translate.google.no/translate?hl=no&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fartikkel.php%3Fart%2520id%3D10080610

Google Translate may not be the best, but this is pretty clear: "In online debates marks Anders Behring Breivik as well read, and one with strong opinions about Norwegian politics. He promotes a very conservative opinions, which he also called nationalist. He expresses himself strongly opposed to multiculturalism - that cultural differences can live together in a community. "

I'm shocked, shocked.



Politesub53 -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 2:44:55 AM)

Well well, another Muslim hater, who would have thought it.

Here is a link to the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259989



rockspider -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 2:50:42 AM)

This thing is absolutely weird and contradictory. If it had been an Islamic terrorist it would certainly had made a lot more sense, with his choice of targets. In a perverted way I am glad they caught him alive so we might find out of what his motivation was. This incident wakes the same feelings here in Scandinavia as the Oklahoma city bombing did in USA. We have always known the ultra wing is active here, but really seen them as a bunch of harmless clowns. That is obviously going to change now. This is also the biggest terror/criminal incident since WW2 in the whole of Scandinavia, so the chock is enormous here. I, as everybody else is watching the news carefully but in reality the police is saying very little.



Politesub53 -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 2:58:10 AM)

The police have already said a lot, and they did so fairly quickly. They established the two attacks were linked, they established it was the work of one man and they established it wasnt a Muslim attack.

There wasnt much more they could establish until they had had the time to do a full search. Why is it weird just because it was an attack by the right ?  It isnt as though we havent had plenty of right wing violence, even since WW2.



Aneirin -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 3:27:59 AM)

Right wing extremist views are on the rise it seems world wide, and undoubtedly the relative ease of immmigration is helping with that, but also so is the media in it's reporting of events that we would never know about in the course of our normal day, thus with some causing an emotional response that causes them to dislike for no other reason than the media presented it to them.

But the definition of extremism is an uneasy one, see;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremism



LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 3:31:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Right wing extremist views are on the rise it seems world wide, and undoubtedly the relative ease of immmigration is helping with that, but also so is the media in it's reporting of events that we would never know about in the course of our normal day, thus with some causing an emotional response that causes them to dislike for no other reason than the media presented it to them.

But the definition of extremism is an uneasy one, see;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremism



No matter which definition you use, throwing bombs and killing people is pretty "extreme" and you know blaming the media is really odd, you mean it would be so much better if we had a dictator who would decide what the media lets us know and how they present it?
That really never worked well and in the days of the internet, it's becoming much much harder - thankfully!



FirstQuaker -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 5:16:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Right wing extremist views are on the rise it seems world wide, and undoubtedly the relative ease of immmigration is helping with that, but also so is the media in it's reporting of events that we would never know about in the course of our normal day, thus with some causing an emotional response that causes them to dislike for no other reason than the media presented it to them.

But the definition of extremism is an uneasy one, see;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremism



No matter which definition you use, throwing bombs and killing people is pretty "extreme" and you know blaming the media is really odd, you mean it would be so much better if we had a dictator who would decide what the media lets us know and how they present it?
That really never worked well and in the days of the internet, it's becoming much much harder - thankfully!


On no fear, the Anglo-Sphere governments spend a lot of time and effort on the web, be it the "misinformation correctors" contracted by the Canadian government, the Foreign Office hacks (4000 more proposed just for the Olympics) in the UK, or the New Zealand SIS. Then there is that shining new US government contract for software that will let the operator control up to 500 users at a time on sites like Face Book and Yahoo.

The 50 cent brigade has nothing on them.



nephandi -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 5:31:11 AM)

Greetings

quote:

This thing is absolutely weird and contradictory. If it had been an Islamic terrorist it would certainly had made a lot more sense, with his choice of targets.


It is not that difficult to understand this lunatic choice of targets, the summer camp he attacked where a youth gathering for young members of the political party Arbeiderpartiet, or the workers party. In Norway we have many political parties and one of the biggest ones and the one that is currently in power is the workers party, also in Norway every political party have a youth organization, it is from this organization that almost all of the higher up members of the party originates, the kids at that camp would is the future of the workers party, in thirty years or so some of them will be at the top of Norway's most powerful party, the lunatic probably wanted to strike a blow at the workers party by striking a blow at it's future, it's youth.

quote:

He has a history on Facebook, expressing himself against muslims and we call it not a terrorist, but an extremist.


He is called the same as any terrorist when spoken of in Norway, he is charged by the terrorism laws in Norway on two accounts so yes he is called a terrorist, however he is also called an extremist, which is the reason for his action, just as other terrorists have also been called extremists.

quote:

In a perverted way I am glad they caught him alive so we might find out of what his motivation was.


I am not glad the man was taken alive, in Norway the punishment for violence is ridiculously low, at worst he risks 21 years in prison. 21 years in a comfy prison with TV in the cell, internet, kiosk and so on. I am not an advocate for the death penalty, I am against it, however it is against every sense of justice I have that a man who have killed nearly 100 people, who have shot down over 80 kids in cold blood, some of them mere teenagers, there where children as young as 11 years old on that island, should get away with 21 years in prison. It makes me furious.

quote:

No matter which definition you use, throwing bombs and killing people is pretty "extreme" and you know blaming the media is really odd, you mean it would be so much better if we had a dictator who would decide what the media lets us know and how they present it?
That really never worked well and in the days of the internet, it's becoming much much harder - thankfully!


When it comes to the media I have a bit of a mixed emotion, on one end I agree with you, we need a free media and it is hard to imagine how it could be in any way be regulated without loosing much of what living in a democracy is about, but on the other end it is no doubt that the sensationalist way that the media rapports can lead some twisted people into mindless hatred. I do not blame the media for this tragedy, but I do wish that they at time would show a little restraint in how they rapported on some news.

I wish you all well



LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 5:48:20 AM)

One thing I fail to understand is why he targeted children? Is there any explanation?

I can't understand any violence of that kind, but especially towards children it's just beyond anything that anybody can comprehend.

As for the media presenting news in a certain fashion, it's down to our responsibility to not subscribe to the sensationalists, they will lose readership and advertisers, we have a choice what we read and we are to blame to a certain degree.



nephandi -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 6:06:59 AM)

Greetings

quote:

One thing I fail to understand is why he targeted children? Is there any explanation?


Well the police is not finished interrogating the monster yet so no one knows for sure, but if I am to make a guess it would be to harm the future of the workers party as most high standing politicians in Norway started on in the various parties youth divisions. I think he had a bit of a nip it in the bud mindset, sick as it might be.

This for example is from the man's blog, I will translate it, it shows that he really fears the kids in the worker party's youth division.Stoltenberg is the leader of the workers party and our prime minister.

(Vi kan ikke akseptere at Arbeiderpartiet subsidierer disse voldelige «Stoltenberg jugend» som systematisk terroriserer politiske konservative.)

Translation: We can not accept that the workers party subsidize these violent "Stoltenberg Youth" who systematically terrorizes the politically conservative.

quote:

I can't understand any violence of that kind, but especially towards children it's just beyond anything that anybody can comprehend.
 

I guess some people are just twisted enough to do it.

quote:

As for the media presenting news in a certain fashion, it's down to our responsibility to not subscribe to the sensationalists, they will lose readership and advertisers, we have a choice what we read and we are to blame to a certain degree.


Off course, we are all to blame to a certain degree, however I still think the media should moderate themselves a bit. I am not for the law moderating the media, but I do think they should take more responsibility and choose how they present the news accordingly.

I wish you well



LadyConstanze -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 6:25:51 AM)

You'll always have moderate, informative media and the sensationalist media, the sensationalists will not listen to anything or only pay lip service to moderating themselves, which is a sad state, they'll only change if their way of "reporting" will become unprofitable.

I'm not too familiar with Norwegian politics (Dad's from Sweden - don't let's get started on the old Norway/Sweden squabbles) but from the little I've seen, violent was nothing I would have ever attributed to Norway or one of their youth organizations. This guy clearly seems to be insane, I just don't think that this should get him a pass. I'm with Aswad, an unfortunate accident would be most welcome.



Anaxagoras -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 6:32:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
The police have already said a lot, and they did so fairly quickly. They established the two attacks were linked, they established it was the work of one man and they established it wasnt a Muslim attack.

At first the media did report that the cause was unknown. A few articles I saw including a lengthy one from the Guardian which many people regard as something of an apologist for Islam also followed that train of thought (the link I posted on another thread to one of their articles was radically edited last night!). Was it premature? Probably. Was it unjustified? I don't think so. Norway has been subject to a large number of threats from Islamic sources. I saw this article http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/02/28/terror-threat-now-more-serious/ which clearly identifies Islamic extremism as a serious threat. The perception that the attack was possibly from such a source is understandable especially after Norway was strongly tied to the Danish cartoons fiasco in 2006. This was partly the reason for the terrorist attacks in Sweden last Christmas too.

quote:


Why is it weird just because it was an attack by the right ?  It isnt as though we havent had plenty of right wing violence, even since WW2.

Clearly there hasn't been an attack this deadly but generally speaking it does seem that left wing violence has been far more prolific in the West since World War Two, e.g. serious terror groups like ETA and November 17, and a myraid number of small groups like the Angry Brigade in the UK. Then there is the premeditated and highly prolific violence at left wing marches around the world with groups like J18 which has intensified of late.



DarkSteven -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 6:49:13 AM)

He is not a conservative as much as be is a dangerous lunatic.  Just like Jared Loughner, once someone is that far nuts, their political affiliation doesn't matter because it's totally off.  Until a political party adopts mass murder as part of their platform.



rockspider -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 6:55:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The police have already said a lot, and they did so fairly quickly. They established the two attacks were linked, they established it was the work of one man and they established it wasnt a Muslim attack.

There wasnt much more they could establish until they had had the time to do a full search. Why is it weird just because it was an attack by the right ?  It isnt as though we havent had plenty of right wing violence, even since WW2.

The weirdness in it is not the bomb attack as that was directed most likely against the highest government authority and what he most likely sees as a left leaning newspaper among others. What I do find weird is that he proceeds then to shooting at children of his own nationality. He is known for extremist views on Muslim immigration.
The Danish main TV channel has been sending in conjunction with their Norwegian counterpart since the news broke and up to 2 pm local time. I do speak Norwegian so I have been following it quite close. While the babble of words has been quite overwhelming the police have come out with very little in the fact department. Most of what is emerging is really originating from the press, who of course has gone in to something like a frenzy.
Might be the right has been quite violent in other parts of the world, but it is the first time in Scandinavia. Our intelligence services has been quite buzy monitoring the Muslim and the left wing environment and probably has neglected the right. They were never really seen as a treat.



Moonhead -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 6:56:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

One thing I fail to understand is why he targeted children? Is there any explanation?

I can't understand any violence of that kind, but especially towards children it's just beyond anything that anybody can comprehend.

As for the media presenting news in a certain fashion, it's down to our responsibility to not subscribe to the sensationalists, they will lose readership and advertisers, we have a choice what we read and we are to blame to a certain degree.

He didn't, as such: the kids were at the labour party's summer camp, so he presumably saw them as offspring of the loathsome integrationist scum in the government's majority party, rather than children. The tendency of extremist nutcases to rationalise their activities by dehumanising their targets is pretty well documented, sadly.



Fightdirecto -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 6:57:50 AM)

One Norwegian police official is referring to this terrorist attack as "Norway's Oklahoma City bombing". (http://news.yahoo.com/gunmans-background-puzzles-police-norway-044701742.html).

Random thought:

Almost every Right-wing terrorist attack in recent years seems to have at it's core the terrorist's belief that he is "saving" his country from his country's Left. For example, the Right-wing terrorist who shot up the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee in 2008 because of his belief that all Unitarians are Leftists and by killing them, he was performing an act of patriotism. (Man admits church shooting, says liberals should die)

quote:

According to the affidavit requesting to search Adkisson's home, the suspect told investigators liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country. Adkisson also blamed Democrats for the country's decline, according to the affidavit. "He felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets," the affidavit said. "Because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement ... he would then target those that had voted them into office."


As nephandi mentioned, it is believed that the Norwegian terrorist may have attacked the kids at the camp becuase he believed the camp was training the kids to be liberals.



FirstQuaker -> RE: Norwegian Terrorist: White, Right-Wing, Nationalist... (7/23/2011 7:03:26 AM)

The idea one can interpret some deep political meanings out the doings of a madman, and then attribute this mileage to one's political opponents appears to a popular one.

If the idiot had stopped at McDonald's on the way, some health food paladins would come out of the woodwork and blame junk food on the outrage



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