RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor!

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RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 9:58:47 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Better yet, why not earmark the money to the local Senior Services so that all those seniors who "lacked self-discipline" and didn't have the ability to make "sufficient" money as laborers (because they lived paycheck to paycheck just meeting living expenses), can benefit from her "oh so wise and wealthy" retirement that doesn't need the money.

This way, those Seniors could have money needed for medication, housing, food. Those "silly" things they should have been planning for while they were busting their ass trying to make ends meet.

Don't you understand? The money I've contributed over the years has already been spent. It's gone. It is nothing more than a debt on the books at this point.

The money I continue to pay in goes the same way.

I'm simply not going to ever collect on that debt and ask the next working generation to support me.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 21

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:05:10 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

Why aren't any of the politicians talking about ending these free trade deals and bringing decent paying jobs back? Instead they'd rather make cuts that will result in a war between the people and the government. More decent paying jobs means more Americans being able to pay higher taxes and more tax revenue for the government to use to pay off the debt. For some reason they'd rather piss everybody off and create riots.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 7/24/2011 10:06:28 PM >

_____________________________

Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 22

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:14:14 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Why aren't any of the politicians talking about ending these free trade deals and bringing decent paying jobs back? Instead they'd rather make cuts that will result in a war between the people and the government. More decent paying jobs means more Americans being able to pay higher taxes and more tax revenue for the government to use to pay off the debt. For some reason they'd rather piss everybody off and create riots.

I just started a thread about foreign aid, click on the numbers and who gets what.

If I start a post tonight about the millions of jobs lost due to outsourcing, and the names of the companies that make the most profits and how they treat they workers, and the amount of profit they are making {on the backs of the unemployed here in America}, you might become so depressed it would be dangerous.
Will create the post in the future.

< Message edited by Marini -- 7/24/2011 10:18:02 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 23

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:16:16 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

"ask the next working generation to support me"

That`s exactly what is going to happen if your money runs out before you do?

What are you going to do if that happens,refuse help? Go hungry? Live under a bridge?Sleep on a friend`s couch until you expire?

Say you`re lucky enough not to have most of your money spent,swindled or stolen by the time you lose your health,what about the hardworking World War II generation elderly who aren`t so lucky?

What should we do,not support them out of principal?

What the GOP are trying to do and have always tried to do historically,is to destroy the thin safety net we have.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/24/2011 10:17:53 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 24

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:17:46 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Yeah it's so weird, whenever you try to argue for any social justice issues in the US on these boards, you usually get the same response. I don't care. I don't want that. I do this, therefore everyone should.

Is there some sort of GOP training program that teaches you "yes, you really are the center of the world, and everything that doesn't benefit you is worthless"?

More like a Dem training program.
Have you noticed for the past few decades that some in our govt. wanted us to be the "world leader" (Hillary Clinton *still* does!) and get involved in wars and provide for third world countries to the tune of $trillions of dollars?
When asked why the U.S. was getting involved in Libya her reply was; "Because we have a "unique" capability!" Yeah, that's the problem, military expenditures dwarf all others and have bankrupted us!
And look at that fat drunken clown Ted Kennedy and all the taxpayer money he pissed away on foreign allotments over the decades!
And yes, Bush 43 pissed a whole bunch of our money away in Iraq and Afganistan and the last I checked the News wires they're *still* looking for the $20B that has somehow "dissapeared" in Iraq.
If we hadn't tried to be "world leader" we wouldn't be having this conversation would we? We wouldn't be in this mess!
People would have pensions, there'd be plenty of money for Social Security and 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened.
There's an old saying that we all learn from our childhood; "Mind your own business!"
And that goes for countries too!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 7/24/2011 10:22:32 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to imperatrixx)

Post #: 25

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:22:53 PM

playfulotter

Posts: 2195
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

What she is saying is just that she isn't depending on it...she doesn't have to due to her circumstances but many do and they are the ones going to be in a world of trouble....Save for your retirement and don't expect to get Social Security is what everyone should be doing..hey if you get it you will be that much better off.....enough said.

< Message edited by playfulotter -- 7/24/2011 10:24:10 PM >

_____________________________

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” ― Benjamin Franklin

"Some people are otters, some people are rocks." ~Sheldon Cooper

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 26

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:25:15 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

What was the average life expectancy when the program was created, and when the age was set at 65?

Great point Rich, in the article it explains that the age to recieve social security SHOULD be raised, but gradually!!!!

This copied and pasted from the article: "
"Modernizing the Retirement Age. When Social Security was enacted, the average life expectancy for men in America was 60 years; for women it was 64. Today, average life expectancy has increased to 75 years for men and 80 years for women. Life expectancies are expected to continue lengthening throughout the century. Given these facts, and the choice among many Americans to work additional years, this proposal extends the gradual increase in the retirement age, from 65 to 67, occurring under existing policies, and speeds it up by 1 year. Once the current-law retirement age reaches 67 in 2026, this proposal continues its progression in line with expected increases in life expectancy. This will have the effect of increasing the retirement age by 1 month every 2 years. The retirement age will gradually increase until it reaches 70 in the next century." from the article
"Class Warfare Fix for Social Security" by Andrew Leonard.

The age should be raised GRADUALLY, by 1 month every 2 years, and the retirement age will gradually increase to 70.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 27

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:33:02 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

For me, I could care less if I ever receive Social Security. I pay plenty into it, and have done so for over 33 years, but I honestly have never believed it will be around by the time I'm old enough to collect anyway. I've never planned on it, and have never wanted to rely on it. It wasn't ever meant to be anything but a supplement program anyway.

then to what charity will you be donating your check? This is more ill conceived utter bullshit and nonsense.

your check should be in the vicinity of $20,000 or more annually. I am sure that it has never been a concern.

What a dishonest thing to say.

ALL the people that say they don't WANT or NEED social security, should send the money back, and help decrease the deficit.

Let's hold our breaths, while all the wealthy people donate their monthly checks to help reduce the deficit.

Treasure, why dedicate it to charity?
Why not use the money to help reduce the deficit?

Stop and think for a minute, please. There's no need for me to do anything. The money I've contributed in the past has already been spent by the government. The money I pay in now and the future is currently being used to care for those who collect payments right now. If I never apply to receive benefits, then the charity is that those contributions made by those younger than me can go towards others who need it.

You stop and think for a minute, you grandstanding windbag! You ARE going to get a check if you live long enough!!! Got it, sweetpants?

What we are asking you is, when you get it will you be donating it to charity or sending it back?

Think for a minute and then answer the question!

Damn, talk about being obtuse.

_____________________________

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 28

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:35:36 PM

playfulotter

Posts: 2195
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline

Well I bet she doesn't donate it to charity..but she is right about the major tenants of what might happen! You always have to be so negative Domiguy....

< Message edited by playfulotter -- 7/24/2011 10:42:19 PM >

_____________________________

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” ― Benjamin Franklin

"Some people are otters, some people are rocks." ~Sheldon Cooper

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 29

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:36:29 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Why aren't any of the politicians talking about ending these free trade deals and bringing decent paying jobs back? Instead they'd rather make cuts that will result in a war between the people and the government. More decent paying jobs means more Americans being able to pay higher taxes and more tax revenue for the government to use to pay off the debt. For some reason they'd rather piss everybody off and create riots.

SSHHH DBG, we don't often talk about the almost 1 million jobs LOST when we signed NAFTA!!!

US lost 700000 jobs with NAFTA

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 30

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:38:13 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

"What we are asking you is, when you get it will you be donating it to charity or sending it back? "

Where the fuck do you get "we" ?

T^T

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 31

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:44:37 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

marini asked a similar question, thus "we."

Got it, sunshine? Don't make me come over there and trip on your garbage.

_____________________________

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 32

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 10:49:54 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

Look social security is broke, but rest assured treasure will get her check.

This is one thing that will not be allowed to be swallowed up or done away when hard decisions have to be made.

maybe she won't get all that was promised, or maybe it will be taxed at a higher rate or maybe she will have to wait a bit longer to receive those checks, but they are coming.

_____________________________

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 33

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/24/2011 11:09:49 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: playfulotter

What she is saying is just that she isn't depending on it...she doesn't have to due to her circumstances but many do and they are the ones going to be in a world of trouble....Save for your retirement and don't expect to get Social Security is what everyone should be doing..hey if you get it you will be that much better off.....enough said.

It doesn`t matter how much money you have,an illness can bankrupt ANYONE.Unless of course you have a string of hospitals or nursing homes,then you`re get`n payed.

We have, over a number of centuries decided that letting folks languish on the road-side, who can no longer care for themselves is not moral.

If at some point treasure (or anyone who`s out of luck) needs help,by default,the (only) ones who can help care for her will be the able bodied.That`s the social bargain we`ve grown into.

Part of the state taxes most people pay go to Medicaid and to hospitals,to compensate them for free care they give.We still don`t ask for insurance or money-up-front when you`re having a heart-attack.........yet.

And after the conservatives put us in this mess in the 1st place, we now all have to suffer losing part or all of the safety net?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to playfulotter)

Post #: 34

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 1:12:13 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

This may be breaking news for some, but the average life span for BLACK Americans, these days is 67.
67 is the average life expectancy for ALL BLACK AMERICANS, regardless of their social class.

This is extremely deceptive. The primary reasons for the difference is the much higher murder rate for blacks and smoking by blacks. When discussing SS much more relevant statistics are life expectancy for those that reach age 65 and 75, where there are only minor differences.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 35

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 4:52:10 AM

EternalHoH

Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

For me, I couldn't care less if I ever receive Social Security. I pay plenty into it, and have done so for over 33 years, but I honestly have never believed it will be around by the time I'm old enough to collect anyway. I've never planned on it, and have never wanted to rely on it. It wasn't ever meant to be anything but a supplement program anyway.

And in all honesty, SS is not bankrupting the nation. Medicare is. Unless you have bankrolled enough to buy private health insurance until you die (provided you are not cut off as being "too expensive to insure" by the insurance cos), your opportunity to sponge off the government dole is still forthcoming. Lets not crow too soon now.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 36

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 5:18:43 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Look social security is broke, but rest assured treasure will get her check.

This is one thing that will not be allowed to be swallowed up or done away when hard decisions have to be made.

maybe she won't get all that was promised, or maybe it will be taxed at a higher rate or maybe she will have to wait a bit longer to receive those checks, but they are coming.

You admit that SS is broke, yet claim to have knowledge that she will "get her check" anyway.

How do you "know" this?

And why has the government the ability to change the terms of the "agreement" about SS? If someone was told for 33 years that if they put "x" into the system, at a certain date they would receive "y", then why is this ok with you?

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 37

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 5:24:41 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Better yet, why not earmark the money to the local Senior Services so that all those seniors who "lacked self-discipline" and didn't have the ability to make "sufficient" money as laborers (because they lived paycheck to paycheck just meeting living expenses), can benefit from her "oh so wise and wealthy" retirement that doesn't need the money.

This way, those Seniors could have money needed for medication, housing, food. Those "silly" things they should have been planning for while they were busting their ass trying to make ends meet.

Don't you understand? The money I've contributed over the years has already been spent. It's gone. It is nothing more than a debt on the books at this point.

The money I continue to pay in goes the same way.

I'm simply not going to ever collect on that debt and ask the next working generation to support me.

You do realize that the Social Security trust is solvent for the next 20 years currently, and by removing the cap on contributions, solvent forever?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 38

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 5:30:01 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You do realize that the Social Security trust is solvent for the next 20 years currently, and by removing the cap on contributions, solvent forever?

That may be true ... theoretically.

In reality, all the "trust fund" money has been loaned to the Federal Government for other expenses ... and spent.

The SS "trust fund" has pretty much nothing but IOUs and the monthly income which is redistributed each month for current payments.

In other words, your "solvent" SS is a fiction.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 39

RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 5:38:43 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You do realize that the Social Security trust is solvent for the next 20 years currently, and by removing the cap on contributions, solvent forever?

That may be true ... theoretically.

In reality, all the "trust fund" money has been loaned to the Federal Government for other expenses ... and spent.

The SS "trust fund" has pretty much nothing but IOUs and the monthly income which is redistributed each month for current payments.

In other words, your "solvent" SS is a fiction.

Firm

We call those IOU's "Treasury Bills" or "Treasury Notes" and they're backed by the Full Faith and Credit of the United States.

As long as the US pays its debts on time, there's nothing to worry about.

Oh, yeah. Boehner's holding the Full Faith and Credit of the United States hostage...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 40

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