Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (Full Version)

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Marini -> Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 8:37:27 PM)

I read an article that explains why raising the age to receive social security is another form of "class warfare", and I agree for a variety of reasons.

Here is the article I read: A Class Warfare fix for Social Security

Though life expectancies as a whole have risen, here are a few facts, that most of us should already know:

women tend to live longer than men, whites tend to live longer than blacks, and the rich tend to live longer than the poor.

According to a British study, unskilled manual laborers had the lowest life span, while doctors were at the top.

This may be breaking news for some, but the average life span for BLACK Americans, these days is 67.
67 is the average life expectancy for ALL BLACK AMERICANS, regardless of their social class.

It gets worse, the CBO in 2008, stated there is a growing disperity in life expectancy between individuals with high and low income, and in more and less education.

These implications of the widening gap in life expectancy by socioeconomic status are clear for Social Security. …
This widening gap would in fact, reduce the program’s progressivity — the extent to which it redistributes resources from high-income to low-income beneficiaries on a lifetime basis.

All these facts and more, are in the article "A Class Warfare fix for Social Security" by Andrew Leonard.

It is sad and ironic that , those that work the hardest will have to work even longer and harder, and some having worked hard for close to 40-50 years, MIGHT live long enough to get a social security check for a year or two, before they die.

Why not just raise the age to 70, and borrow the line from Scrooge?
Let's have "them" work hard and pay into the system 40-50 years, and die without ever receiving a dime!
This will help us reduce the surplus population, and have more money to help reduce the deficit!

Peace



erieangel -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:04:49 PM)

Remove the income cap on payroll taxes.

Means test social security payments. While admittedly, social security was never meant to be a "pension" program and the major source of income for retirees, that is what it has become.



TreasureKY -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:08:39 PM)

For me, I couldn't care less if I ever receive Social Security.  I pay plenty into it, and have done so for over 33 years, but I honestly have never believed it will be around by the time I'm old enough to collect anyway.  I've never planned on it, and have never wanted to rely on it.  It wasn't ever meant to be anything but a supplement program anyway.



Marini -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:12:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

For me, I could care less if I ever receive Social Security.  I pay plenty into it, and have done so for over 33 years, but I honestly have never believed it will be around by the time I'm old enough to collect anyway.  I've never planned on it, and have never wanted to rely on it.  It wasn't ever meant to be anything but a supplement program anyway.


I agree it was created to be a "supplement program", and many people NEED the supplement.
I bet if you felt you might NEED it, you would be writing a different sort of post.

But hey, we can decrease the surplus population here, let them work until they drop dead, or let them eat cake.



imperatrixx -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:14:30 PM)

Ah yes, true American individualism. If I personally don't need or want it, nobody else should have it.



defiantbadgirl -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:16:49 PM)

Raising the retirement age is a recipe for disaster. Too many companies are getting rid of older workers and refusing to hire them. Raising the contribution cut off is a much better idea. Many politicians also consider cutting benefits to medicare and medicaid a necessary evil. Medicare cuts will result in many elderly people who already choose between food and medication being unable to pay their rent and becoming homeless. Medicaid spending caps will result in nursing home patients being evicted once their spending caps are reached and disabled adults with chronic illnesses suffering slow painful deaths. This would cause riots and an all out war between the American people and the government. Cutting benefits in these areas is impossible because the result would be catastrophic.



Marini -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:17:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Ah yes, true American individualism. If I personally don't need or want it, nobody else should have it.


That's the spirit, ESPECIALLY since many people these days don't have jobs in which they will receive a pension!
How dare they work hard, pay state and federal taxes, and be taxed to death on everything they buy, contribute to social security and desire their lil social security check!

Next people will be expecting to receive some sort of national health care!



imperatrixx -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:22:56 PM)

Yeah it's so weird, whenever you try to argue for any social justice issues in the US on these boards, you usually get the same response. I don't care. I don't want that. I do this, therefore everyone should.

Is there some sort of GOP training program that teaches you "yes, you really are the center of the world, and everything that doesn't benefit you is worthless"?



playfulotter -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:25:43 PM)

Since so many people have no savings at all we are going to be in a world of trouble in the next few decades.....not that we are not already!



domiguy -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:33:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

For me, I could care less if I ever receive Social Security.  I pay plenty into it, and have done so for over 33 years, but I honestly have never believed it will be around by the time I'm old enough to collect anyway.  I've never planned on it, and have never wanted to rely on it.  It wasn't ever meant to be anything but a supplement program anyway.


then to what charity will you be donating your check? This is more ill conceived utter bullshit and nonsense.

your check should be in the vicinity of $20,000 or more annually. I am sure that it has never been a concern.

What a dishonest thing to say.



TreasureKY -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:33:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Ah yes, true American individualism. If I personally don't need or want it, nobody else should have it.


No one has said that nobody should have it.  [8|]

I had this discussion with my father some 33 years ago when I got my first paycheck and a good chunk of it went to FICA.  When I say I have never believed that Social Security would be around by the time I retire, I meant it.  My father was wise enough to know back then the financial problems this country is having right now. 

However, he also explained to me that the reality is that a good many people do not have the self-discipline and sufficient means to plan for their own retirement.  Because of that, Social Security is needed.

The pity of it is, the program has been poorly managed from the start.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:34:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

Yeah it's so weird, whenever you try to argue for any social justice issues in the US on these boards, you usually get the same response. I don't care. I don't want that. I do this, therefore everyone should.

Is there some sort of GOP training program that teaches you "yes, you really are the center of the world, and everything that doesn't benefit you is worthless"?
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/151109

But THIS is the one you should read carefully...



TreasureKY -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:38:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

For me, I could care less if I ever receive Social Security.  I pay plenty into it, and have done so for over 33 years, but I honestly have never believed it will be around by the time I'm old enough to collect anyway.  I've never planned on it, and have never wanted to rely on it.  It wasn't ever meant to be anything but a supplement program anyway.


then to what charity will you be donating your check? This is more ill conceived utter bullshit and nonsense.

your check should be in the vicinity of $20,000 or more annually. I am sure that it has never been a concern.

What a dishonest thing to say.



Not dishonest at all.  Think what you want.

My portion is already allocated for charity.   I'll simply never apply for benefits.



Marini -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:39:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

For me, I could care less if I ever receive Social Security.  I pay plenty into it, and have done so for over 33 years, but I honestly have never believed it will be around by the time I'm old enough to collect anyway.  I've never planned on it, and have never wanted to rely on it.  It wasn't ever meant to be anything but a supplement program anyway.


then to what charity will you be donating your check? This is more ill conceived utter bullshit and nonsense.

your check should be in the vicinity of $20,000 or more annually. I am sure that it has never been a concern.

What a dishonest thing to say.



ALL the people that say they don't WANT or NEED social security, should send the money back, and help decrease the deficit.

Let's hold our breaths, while all the wealthy people donate their monthly checks to help reduce the deficit.

Treasure, why dedicate it to charity?
Why not use the money to help reduce the deficit?



TreasureKY -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:48:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

For me, I could care less if I ever receive Social Security.  I pay plenty into it, and have done so for over 33 years, but I honestly have never believed it will be around by the time I'm old enough to collect anyway.  I've never planned on it, and have never wanted to rely on it.  It wasn't ever meant to be anything but a supplement program anyway.


then to what charity will you be donating your check? This is more ill conceived utter bullshit and nonsense.

your check should be in the vicinity of $20,000 or more annually. I am sure that it has never been a concern.

What a dishonest thing to say.



ALL the people that say they don't WANT or NEED social security, should send the money back, and help decrease the deficit.

Let's hold our breaths, while all the wealthy people donate their monthly checks to help reduce the deficit.

Treasure, why dedicate it to charity?
Why not use the money to help reduce the deficit?


Stop and think for a minute, please.  There's no need for me to do anything.  The money I've contributed in the past has already been spent by the government.  The money I pay in now and the future is currently being used to care for those who collect payments right now.  If I never apply to receive benefits, then the charity is that those contributions made by those younger than me can go towards others who need it.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:49:04 PM)

Better yet, why not earmark the money to the local Senior Services so that all those seniors who "lacked self-discipline" and didn't have the ability to make "sufficient" money as laborers (because they lived paycheck to paycheck just meeting living expenses), can benefit from her "oh so wise and wealthy" retirement that doesn't need the money.

This way, those Seniors could have money needed for medication, housing, food. Those "silly" things they should have been planning for while they were busting their ass trying to make ends meet.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:51:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Stop and think for a minute, please.  There's no need for me to do anything.  The money I've contributed in the past has already been spent by the government.  The money I pay in now and the future is currently being used to care for those who collect payments right now.  If I never apply to receive benefits, then the charity is that those contributions made by those younger than me can go towards others who need it.



Really? Because if the government has their way, that money will be moved to support some other program.

If you actually apply and collect it, you can donate it where it is actually NEEDED. Although it seems that you really couldn't care less about those less fortunate and were raised by someone who also looked down on them, so your view is understandable.



imperatrixx -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:52:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
No one has said that nobody should have it.  [8|]


You're right, I'm sorry.

It's just a strange response to me...thread says poor people won't be able to reach social security age, response says yeah well I don't care if I never get social security.

It would be like a thread about gay marriage, with someone replying "well I'm straight and I don't even want to get married."



TheHeretic -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:54:56 PM)

What was the average life expectancy when the program was created, and when the age was set at 65?



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class Warfare against poor! (7/24/2011 9:56:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

This way, those Seniors could have money needed for medication, housing, food. Those "silly" things they should have been planning for while they were busting their ass trying to make ends meet.
Yeah, sure, right. [8D]

I personally knew a woman whose cousin's best friend's hairdresser's dog groomer knew a family of 28 who bought a new Cadillac EVERY FUCKING MONTH!!! With FOOD STAMPS!



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