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RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 6:02:04 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

We call those IOU's "Treasury Bills" or "Treasury Notes" and they're backed by the Full Faith and Credit of the United States.

As long as the US pays its debts on time, there's nothing to worry about.

Oh, yeah. Boehner's holding the Full Faith and Credit of the United States hostage...

Regardless, the actual "trust fund" does not exist.

And your take otherwise is your own personal ideological slant on the issue, attempting to justify that fact.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 7:35:23 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		So Boenhner and the tea party aren't holding the Full Faith and Credt of the nation hostage to their own ideological demands ?
How do you figure that ? They have stated that they are more than willing to raise the debt limit.....provided a deal is reached on expenditures ie: cuts...a deal that is ideologically pure ie : no revenue increases.
If that is not holding it hostage,what is it ?
Where is the slant ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 8:01:17 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Look social security is broke, but rest assured treasure will get her check.

This is one thing that will not be allowed to be swallowed up or done away when hard decisions have to be made.

maybe she won't get all that was promised, or maybe it will be taxed at a higher rate or maybe she will have to wait a bit longer to receive those checks, but they are coming.

You admit that SS is broke, yet claim to have knowledge that she will "get her check" anyway.

How do you "know" this?

And why has the government the ability to change the terms of the "agreement" about SS?  If someone was told for 33 years that if they put "x" into the system, at a certain date they would receive "y", then why is this ok with you?

Firm




It's not "okay," never said it was. You and I, at our "advanced" ages should receive some sort of benefit from the contributions that we have made. I think that there is no way possible that the benefit will be completely removed.

This is a time for serious players when it comes to dealing with this deficit and getting a working and meaningful budget in place.

What sickens me is how one side (the Republicans, for the most part) are acting like they are the fiscally responsible party when from '01-'09, under their watch, the budget shot to the moon. They seemed not to car at all about being "fiscally responsible" during that time frame.

Now we have a bailout that was left at the feet of this President and the incurring financial fallout.

Forget the blame let's all start taking accountability and move forward.

Are we the country that is going to dump our aged, handicapped, impoverished and sick?

Is the expectation of quality health care a right or a privilege?

How much military do we need?

How important is providing a meaningful and solid education to the welfare of a country and to insure it's continued success?

Tough questions, too much for me for I must go poop now.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 8:34:50 AM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Look social security is broke, but rest assured treasure will get her check.

This is one thing that will not be allowed to be swallowed up or done away when hard decisions have to be made.

maybe she won't get all that was promised, or maybe it will be taxed at a higher rate or maybe she will have to wait a bit longer to receive those checks, but they are coming.




Social Security is not broke, that is right wing falsehood. Nor does social security contribute to the debt and deficit as it is self-funded. I'm unsure of the exact years, but social security has enough on hand at this time to pay all obligations for several years, then 80% of those obligations into perpetuity. The question is how to make the program solvent so that it can pay 100% of its obligations for perpetuity.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 8:42:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yes and no, most of that money is in IOUs since it has been robbed repeatedly for 30+ years. So, while theoretically true, you can't viably increase on the positive side with a negative, sorta like a sub-prime default there.

A fellow by the name of Al Gore wanted to put social security in a lockbox (that is, earmarked 100%, no fucking the dog with it)  it was soundly defeated and the idea denigrated at the time.

IOUs dont have a sustaining nutritional value even if you smear Reagan vegetable puree all over them.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/25/2011 8:51:12 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 9:02:20 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~

Social security is fiscally sound. It's a well-designed program.

For years, the surplus has been loaned to a solid, credit-worthy borrower....the U.S. Treasury.

So why can't we just call in the loans? Trouble is, we, the taxpayers, are ultimately the ones who borrowed it. Consequently, we're the ones who owe this money....to ourselves.

We can complain about irresponsible and short-sighted politicians. But we'd have to include the short-sighted irresponsibility of the voters who followed their short-term zeal in tax cutting and borrowing vs. building long term financial viability.

Raising the age two years seems a reasonable approach. Those who can't work are still eligible for disability. Calling it class warfare against the poor seems pretty extreme.

But we could also increase the social security payroll tax, and eliminate the cap. That would help some. I don't know as it would resolve the matter.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 9:27:26 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And if we weren't already borrowed to the hilt on everything under the sun, we would be shining like the Aztec sungod, no biggie, we borrowed from our government sponsored 401(k) and we have to pay it back at interest, (to ourselves) but we also borrowed........and we also borrowed.......and we also borrowed........

so, who what when where why and how, are we gonna pay for this and who gets paid first?  the check is 33-35% short of the bills, kids.......how you wanna do it?  lose cable sure, and the internet, and eating out (especially, since we are doing alot of that) and .......shit, still short...........now what?   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 10:07:43 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And if we weren't already borrowed to the hilt on everything under the sun, we would be shining like the Aztec sungod, no biggie, we borrowed from our government sponsored 401(k) and we have to pay it back at interest, (to ourselves) but we also borrowed........and we also borrowed.......and we also borrowed........

so, who what when where why and how, are we gonna pay for this and who gets paid first?  the check is 33-35% short of the bills, kids.......how you wanna do it?  lose cable sure, and the internet, and eating out (especially, since we are doing alot of that) and .......shit, still short...........now what?   


still short? Live under a bridge, eat dirt, cat/dog food, and then die OR use the Paul Ryan method.
Paul Ryan look a like pushing grandma off a cliff

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 10:11:26 AM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And if we weren't already borrowed to the hilt on everything under the sun, we would be shining like the Aztec sungod, no biggie, we borrowed from our government sponsored 401(k) and we have to pay it back at interest, (to ourselves) but we also borrowed........and we also borrowed.......and we also borrowed........

so, who what when where why and how, are we gonna pay for this and who gets paid first?  the check is 33-35% short of the bills, kids.......how you wanna do it?  lose cable sure, and the internet, and eating out (especially, since we are doing alot of that) and .......shit, still short...........now what?   


Posts 46 and 47 are both very accurate.  There never should have been a problem with social security.  It should have been sacrosanct. 

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 10:14:16 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Social Security is the largest pyramid scheme in the world.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 10:39:10 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And if we weren't already borrowed to the hilt on everything under the sun, we would be shining like the Aztec sungod, no biggie, we borrowed from our government sponsored 401(k) and we have to pay it back at interest, (to ourselves) but we also borrowed........and we also borrowed.......and we also borrowed........

so, who what when where why and how, are we gonna pay for this and who gets paid first?  the check is 33-35% short of the bills, kids.......how you wanna do it?  lose cable sure, and the internet, and eating out (especially, since we are doing alot of that) and .......shit, still short...........now what?   


Posts 46 and 47 are both very accurate.  There never should have been a problem with social security.  It should have been sacrosanct. 



Post 48 was very accurate also!


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 10:43:27 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So Boenhner and the tea party aren't holding the Full Faith and Credt of the nation hostage to their own ideological demands ?
How do you figure that ? They have stated that they are more than willing to raise the debt limit.....provided a deal is reached on expenditures ie: cuts...a deal that is ideologically pure ie : no revenue increases.
If that is not holding it hostage,what is it ?
Where is the slant ?

What is the Obama plan for the budget?  Seen anything other than sound bites?

The Republicans have floated several.  None of which Obama wants to approve.

Who is claiming that we will default on our Treasury bonds, although there is sufficient funds available to pay them for months?

Who is claiming that social security payments will immediately cease, although the funds to pay ongoing expenses are coming in at a rate that would pay those bills?

Who is playing politics with the "Full Faith and Credit" of the nation?

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 10:53:15 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Who is playing politics with the "Full Faith and Credit" of the nation?


Everyone.

Are you new to this country?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 11:27:20 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Who is being intransigent where the methods used to confront the deficit is concerned?
Who have signed pledges that remove one possible piece of the puzzle from the board ?
Whois viewing rescinding"temporary" tax cuts as a tax hike ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 11:44:59 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Wait....I think I know this one.......

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 11:47:25 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Read your new signature and scared my dog!

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 12:01:05 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Yeah MM,you do know the answer ... And as far as I can see you are ,along with some others,willing to see this as it is.Cuts alone will not get us where we want to go.Raising revenue,alone will not get us where we want to go.Ipso facto,and apparent to anyone with half a fucking brain one must use both methods to make the damm pie.
One party has already reached that conclusion...the other is stuck on the phrase "class warfare"... And spends it's time railing about the tyranny that the wealthy are subjected to under this socialist President who doesn't look like them and has a funny name.
This "crisis" is the property of the Republican party,lock stock and barrel....they can wail and cry that no plan has been put forth...but they cannot deny that a Democratic President has announced that he is willing to tweak SS,Medicaire and Medicaid at great political peril to himself and his party....but that same President states that in return we need to put some tax hikes on the table....and the Republicans walk out.One can not violate ones pledge...of course all of these gentleman have also taken an oath....which has primacy.The pledge or the Oath ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 12:01:35 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Who is being intransigent where the methods used to confront the deficit is concerned?
Who have signed pledges that remove one possible piece of the puzzle from the board ?
Whois viewing rescinding"temporary" tax cuts as a tax hike ?


I think it has already been made pretty clear... at least to anyone who has actually paid attention and has an ounce of common sense... that there is plenty of blame to go around.  Laying fault at one party or another's feet isn't productive. 

For what it is worth, I don't completely agree with the Republican (or Tea Party, if you care to view it that way) methods that are being employed, but I do understand what they are trying to accomplish.  The Democrats have long had their sacred cows to protect.  By taking a diametrically opposed and equally entrenched stance, the Republicans are trying to force a balance.  Problem is, balance requires compromise... otherwise, the teeter-totter stops being fun for anyone.

Besides, as any kindergartner can tell you... two wrongs don't make a right.

The question becomes, how do we get rid of the playground bullies?

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 12:07:14 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		How can you write that post and not recognize the inherent flaw contained therein Treasure ? You wrote. "The Democrats have long had their sacred cows to protect". One would assume you are speaking of SS Medicare and Medicaid....didn't the President recently place them on the table for negotiating reforms/cuts ?
IF the President can do thus with the Democratic sacred cows....can Republican legislaturs do less where their sill pledge is concerned ?
Againg I will ask,cause we bears repeating....which has primacy ,their oaths or their pledge?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Raising the age for Social Security? More Class War... - 7/25/2011 12:12:13 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The Democrats have long had their sacred cows to protect.


Sigh.

And Republicans theirs.


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 60
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