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Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 8:39:33 PM   
rosanegra


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		I had a whole long post typed out, but realized I was more stating my personal opinion than asking the question I really wanted to ask... so here it is, short and sweet.

Do you think we blame the Dominant too often when things go wrong?


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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 8:40:15 PM   
littlewonder


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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 8:49:10 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		Yes, but the theory is that the Dominant is the one making the decisions. So, if bad decisions were made.....who else are you going to blame?

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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 8:49:43 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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(just 'cause littlewonder said yes )



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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 8:57:10 PM   
rosanegra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Yes, but the theory is that the Dominant is the one making the decisions. So, if bad decisions were made.....who else are you going to blame?


I suppose this is where the heart of my question comes into play. The Dominant may have made a bad decision... but is it his fault if the submissive failed to thoroughly communicate?

Don't get me wrong... I've been in the position that repeatedly communicating with a "Dominant" about *EVERYTHING* he still repeatedly made bad decisions... and I think it was out of an attempt to assert his so-called dominance by doing the exact opposite of whatever I may have suggested, because as the submissive I couldn't possibly have a better grasp on the whole of the situation than him.... but that is a different situation from what I am talking about...

If the submissive doesn't communicate, and the Dom acts without having all of the information through no fault of their own, it seems like it isn't really their fault.




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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 9:10:45 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

If the submissive doesn't communicate, and the Dom acts without having all of the information through no fault of their own, it seems like it isn't really their fault.
You make a good point, some of the blame "could" be laid at the sub's feet. But, and its a big but....in the final analysis, it's the decision makers responsibility to make sure they have all the information they need before they make a decision. This applies in government, statesmanship, business, relationships...pretty much every aspect of life.

It may be her fault that she didn't give him all the info he really needed, but the decision was his, so he owns it and it's consequences. In a D/s relationship, the D is like Harry Truman...the buck stops here.


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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 9:17:14 PM   
MissImmortalPain


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Status: offline 		I think that it is rather common to always blame the other person when things go wrong. I don't agree that it is the right thing to do but I do think most people to do it.

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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 10:07:28 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		ok so I'm watching The Art of War on the History channel right now and something just struck me as needed for this post here....

If the General's orders are unclear it is the fault of the General if they are not followed through.
If the orders ARE clear and they are still not followed through then it is the fault of the subordinates.

I think it's quite fitting for a M/s relationship.



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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 11:03:19 PM   
HannahLynHeather


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From: where it's at
Status: offline 		i'm assuming we're only talking about the fucking d/s aspect of the relationship failing here. ok?
quote:

If the General's orders are unclear it is the fault of the General if they are not followed through.
If the orders ARE clear and they are still not followed through then it is the fault of the subordinates.
if the clear orders aren't carried out, there's two fucking possibilities.

1. they were misinterpreted
2. they were disobeyed.

if 1, then the fault is with the dominant because he didn't make sure his orders were properly understood. and if 2, it's nobody's fucking fault really. it's simply the consequence of a flaw in the dominant. for whatever reason, the d-type lacked something that would inspire the sub. it's not his fault any more than it's my fault i'm not chinese. its just the fucking way he is. its not the sub's fault he/she isn't inspired, he/she just fucking isn't. that's not the sort of thing you can fake or just put on. it's either there, or it ain't.

so sometimes it's the d's fault, and sometimes it's nobody's. now if we're talking about the relationship doing a fucking titanic for vanilla reason's <sub fucked the pool boy, dom drinks too much, yadda, yadda>, well that's outside the discussion, because the behaviour in question is outside the d/s dynamic. i mean if your sub IS fucking the pool boy behind your back, there's a fuck of a lot more wrong with your relationship than just the d/s dynamic.


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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 11:47:53 PM   
rosanegra


Posts: 277
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Status: offline 		Okay... a good, "for instance," that I am talking about...

Reading on another post, someone said "a submissive can only top from the bottom if the Dom allows it" or in the words of another poster "if the Dom is bottoming from the top."

Yet... what I read into this.. is that the submissive has no choice in the matter. Someone has to take the lead... yet that is not the case. The submissive doesn't have to try topping just because the Dom isn't doing a good job of asserting himself at this exact moment... they can communicate to the Dom that the lack of firm leadership is effecting them adversely.


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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/24/2011 11:56:11 PM   
myotherself


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosanegra


Yet... what I read into this.. is that the submissive has no choice in the matter. Someone has to take the lead... yet that is not the case. The submissive doesn't have to try topping just because the Dom isn't doing a good job of asserting himself at this exact moment... they can communicate to the Dom that the lack of firm leadership is effecting them adversely.



People don't communicate in the same way. Some find direct verbal communication difficult, particularly if they are the "s" part of a D/s relationship. I personally hate confrontation, and I would stress massively if I ever had to tell Master that he was slacking in his dominance. He'd be hurt and angry, I'd be hurt and angry, and that's something I want to avoid at all costs.

So, an alternative is to act out. Give the D-type a chance to jump on the bad behaviour and re-assert his/her dominance without losing face. It's actually quite a subtle form of communication, but communication nevertheless.

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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/25/2011 1:33:59 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Ok, you went from this, which is pretty generic, btw.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rosanegra
Do you think we blame the Dominant too often when things go wrong?

To this:
quote:

ORIGINAL: rosanegra
If the submissive doesn't communicate, and the Dom acts without having all of the information through no fault of their own, it seems like it isn't really their fault.

These are really two different things.  We went from something pretty generic, where we're thinking on the assumption as it applies in our own dynamic, where hopefully, these issues don't exist.  Whatever decision that I make, I'm responsible for how it turns out. 

Then, it changes specifically to the Dominant not having all of the information, or maybe even misinformation, that's coming from the sub.  Of course, that is going to impact the ability to make a good decision, but it doesn't absolve Me of the decision being made.  I'm still responsible anyway because I'm supposed to be the person who has entered into D/s with the particular submissive that I have chosen.  If I've got one who isn't being honest with Me, I'm permitting that just by the fact that I'm keeping the submissive.  If I've got one that isn't communicating properly, as the Dominant, I'm supposed to have a handle on that, too.  So, I'm still ultimately responsible for those kinds of things happening as well.


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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/25/2011 1:56:25 AM   
rosanegra


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		It is pretty generic. I just gave an example... but it is a very generic thing. I see it a lot... something goes bad... the sub talks about it or the Dom talks about it... and it seems like everyone's answer is always "Blame the Dom"

I guess I just wanted to find out if, on the whole, this is really how people feel, or if it is something done unconsciously.


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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/25/2011 2:31:55 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

ok so I'm watching The Art of War on the History channel right now and something just struck me as needed for this post here....

If the General's orders are unclear it is the fault of the General if they are not followed through.
If the orders ARE clear and they are still not followed through then it is the fault of the subordinates.

I think it's quite fitting for a M/s relationship.




I wrote a post on the Art of War not too long ago because of the many similarities I saw between the book and M/s relationships. Where were ya when I needed you?? lol That post did not generate a single response.

I need serious help on thread starting. ::chuckles::

Did the show go into the details of the two concubines who were put in as the leaders and what happened when the troops failed to execute the orders? Quite a telling little piece there although there is no actual evidence other than anecdotal which backs it up. Still, made for a good story though. I loved the book so much that I read it three times in a row.

ETA: I forgot to answer the OP..

I believe the buck stops at the top. I wouldn't use the word blame though but if you don't have the ability to get your partner to communicate clearly with you, as a dominant, then perhaps you have the wrong partner. Since I am a firm believer in allowing a dominant to actually lead, I am also a firm believer in their partners to allow that as well.. and you can't do that if you have a failure to communicate.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 7/25/2011 2:35:06 AM >

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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/25/2011 2:35:48 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		It's not unconscious.

For those of us in a power exchange dynamic, the Dom/me assumes responsibility for decisions. That includes making sure they have enough information to make an informed decision.

They also assume responsibility for making the wrong decision.

If he makes a decision for us and I don't think it's the right one, I will respectfully put forward my opinion. He's not a stupid man, not by a long chalk, and I trust him to make the right choice for us at that moment in time. But things have a habit of changing and sometimes the end result isn't what he'd hoped for.

So he uses it as a learning experience, and we move on. And yes, he accepts that it's his responsibility. I appreciate that we're all human and we make mistakes, but that doesn't make me respect him less - in fact, I respect him MORE because he's man enough to admit his failure.

Do I get angry when he makes the wrong choice when my way would have worked better? No. Because I chose to give him the power to make that choice, and I trust him to do the best he can.

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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/25/2011 3:08:25 AM   
DeviantlyD


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From: Hawai`i
Status: offline 		The thread title sounds like it would be the name for a fun game...you know, "Spin the Bottle"..."Blame the Dom". :D

Sorry for the irreverence. I just can't help myself at times. *grin*

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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/25/2011 5:23:45 AM   
Buzzzz


Posts: 839
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		In general, Yes. Especially if the dom is male. especially if the dom is older and the sub much younger. This is from my experience. The extrem other way around (young domme and older sub) maybe not so much.

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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/25/2011 6:17:40 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Being male and being dom are both "strikes against". It is the kneejerk reaction of other doms and subs to say "you're not dom".

I can't quite decide how I feel about that. I guess I feel like AFTER obedience is established then it's the dom's fault. Before that... before we know what actually happened, then yes -- the dom gets blamed as a kneejerk response.

I guess I kind of feel like we blame the dom prematurely and for too much. Then later on in a relationship, we don't blame the dom enough. In my marriage, Carol is responsible for obeying. I am responsible for the rest of life... all of it.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 7/25/2011 6:23:15 AM >

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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/25/2011 6:21:39 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

If the submissive doesn't communicate, and the Dom acts without having all of the information through no fault of their own, it seems like it isn't really their fault.

Why would this not be my fault? It was my area to make a decision in. It was my responsibility to gather sufficient data before making the decision. Clearly, in the scenario presented, I failed at that.

I'd only consider this a "sub problem" if I specifically asked Carol for that information and she lied to me -- your "misinformation" option. At that point we've got bigger issues in our marriage than D/s issues and who's to blame.

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RE: Blame the Dom - 7/25/2011 6:58:06 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		As I am a Dom, I'd say unequivocally YES.

Im the Dom so Im right.

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