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RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:44:19 PM   
slvemike4u


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RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 7:49:36 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Man you should really take a college history course, and a few political science classes...



  You have no idea how stupid that sounds.  Firm holds a Masters Degree in International Political Science.

How about you?

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 7/26/2011 7:52:05 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 8:32:37 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

You have no idea how stupid that sounds.  Firm holds a Masters Degree in International Political Science.


This goes a long way toward confirming my impression that those degrees might as well come in boxes of Froot Loops.

Don't worry. They're the same up here. And elsewhere, I expect.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to TreasureKY)
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RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 8:38:35 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

She pointed out the "protesters" wearing swastikas and the like.

How else should she refer to them?

In what politically correct way should she call a spade a spade without ruffling the delicate senses of you conservatives?

We remember the marches, Firm.

We remember the posters,and the gun brandishing and the targets and threats of violence.

What,did you think the conservative "protesters" doing that shit would be forgotten?

Maybe by you guys but not by the rest of America.

Well, setting aside the Pelosi remark ... what about all the Bush Admin stuff?

Was that ok by you?

Firm


I can`t and won`t speak for individuals.Private citizens can do what they want.I wouldn`t hold any kind of swastika no matter how well intentioned.Well,maybe held under my foot as I piss on it.But I`m not going to display it. And anyone araound me displaying one better have some buddies with him,or a cop near by.

But and I say again,it`s not what individuals are doing that should get any prolonged scrutiny,jerks are everywhere. To many to count or worry about.

It`s broadcasters like Newscorp and some radio channels that should be taken to task for this outrage.Organized groups like Freedom Works and AFP too,should get what`s coming for stooping to this crap.

When this crap is coming from elected republicans and "tea party" groups like Americans for Prosperity saying that "Obama-care" meant nazi death camps, death panels,etc.,then it`s a different story all together.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/05/the-12-most-offensive-sig_n_347398.html?slidenumber=YQKSlGc5xDU%3D&slideshow#slide_image

2nd picture in.Now that`s no home-made poster.That`s a frik`n pro-made wall mural on stanchions to fly it real high in the air.That`s official tea-party signage.


And it`s not like it`s beck`s first time at making nazi references.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqXKoql-VnQ

He`s calling anyone a nazi on a on whim.He also blubbers on a whim like in the vid.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/26/2011 8:43:30 PM >

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RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 8:42:16 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Firm, people do toss around the Nazi" crap way too much. At Bush at Cheney and on down the line. These were kids butchered on a Summers day as they attended camp.

Have you no decency?

I think that anyone who kills children is a scumbag and deserves the harsh condemnation and punishment.

But the subject of this thread is the mainly American reaction to the comments of a American political commentator.  I am responding to that.

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 8:44:20 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

But the subject of this thread is the mainly American reaction to the comments of a American political commentator.  I am responding to that.

Firm




....as the OP allow me to clarify that a little.

This thread is about the human reaction to the specific American commentator.


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 8:51:37 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

You have no idea how stupid that sounds.  Firm holds a Masters Degree in International Political Science.


This goes a long way toward confirming my impression that those degrees might as well come in boxes of Froot Loops.

Don't worry. They're the same up here. And elsewhere, I expect.

Health,

That was an unnecessary and low blow, Aswad.

I generally read you with much respect, and I've found nothing in any of your comments in any other posts to give me anything other than the highest respect for your ability to look beyond the superficial.

Until now.

I understand that you are distressed.  Perhaps you are filtering what I am saying through your own experiences, and not clearly understanding my point of view.

I do not watch Beck, nor even Fox very much.  I do not have an opinion on Norwegian politics.  In this thread I've simply been addressing the American double-standard of the use of Nazi metaphors for political purposes.

It is an overused, and pretty much meaningless technique anymore, because of its overuse, and I don't believe that anyone should use it.

However, much of the American left uses it when it is convenient for them, but condemns it vociferously when it is used on them, even slightly.

My goal in this thread was to point that out.  Not make any argument about anything Norwegian that was outlandish or false.

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 8:54:02 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

But the subject of this thread is the mainly American reaction to the comments of a American political commentator.  I am responding to that.


....as the OP allow me to clarify that a little.

This thread is about the human reaction to the specific American commentator.

Thanks philo,

Gotcha.

However, this is predominately a forum of Americans (yes, with a fairly decent size number of non-Americans) on an American site, about comments of an American commentator.

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:03:49 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

But the subject of this thread is the mainly American reaction to the comments of a American political commentator.  I am responding to that.


....as the OP allow me to clarify that a little.

This thread is about the human reaction to the specific American commentator.

Thanks philo,

Gotcha.

However, this is predominately a forum of Americans (yes, with a fairly decent size number of non-Americans) on an American site, about comments of an American commentator.

Firm




.....true enough Firm, however this case surely isn't about nationality. If a Ukrainian commentator was better known to me and had said what Beck said, I'd have started the thread with that hypothetical quote.

Children (and adults) died at the hands of a sick and twisted man. What Mr Beck said was, at the very best reading, sorely misguided......and, at worst, a sign of a sociopathic mind, unable to empathise with people he never met.

I do not ask anyone to make a blanket condemnation of Beck or his political ideals.........I am asking people to look at this one quote and make a determination on its appropriateness.

In my view he went beyond the pale with that line. Just as other, stupid and horrible people said equally stupid things about 9/11 in the immediate aftermath.

If one feels comfortable in condemning those who celebrated 9/11, (and I count myself among that number) then I can't see how one can fail to condemn Becks words here.

Seeking to make victims sound like they deserved it (and linking the summer camp with the Nazis is clearly doing that) is wrong. End of. Period.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:06:48 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

However, much of the American left uses it when it is convenient for them, but condemns it vociferously when it is used on them, even slightly.


Oh my! False equivalence strikes again.

The Nazis were a product of the Right. The Right wing has an exclusive monopoly on fascism and ultra-nationalism. Therefore this is a label only applicable to the ultra-conservative side of politics.

To apply these terms to the left makes as much sense as calling the Tea Party Maoists.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/26/2011 9:07:56 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:07:59 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Man you should really take a college history course, and a few political science classes...



  You have no idea how stupid that sounds.  Firm holds a Masters Degree in International Political Science.

How about you?

And has a minion to do his fighting for him.....

How lucky is that?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:09:40 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The important thing is to circle the wagons around Beck.

Because....er....because.....hmmm.......

No ideologues here. Pure thinkers.

Uh-huh. That's it.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:10:09 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I can`t and won`t speak for individuals.Private citizens can do what they want.I wouldn`t hold any kind of swastika no matter how well intentioned.Well,maybe held under my foot as I piss on it.But I`m not going to display it. And anyone araound me displaying one better have some buddies with him,or a cop near by.

But and I say again,it`s not what individuals are doing that should get any prolonged scrutiny,jerks are everywhere. To many to count or worry about.

It`s broadcasters like Newscorp and some radio channels that should be taken to task for this outrage.Organized groups like Freedom Works and AFP too,should get what`s coming for stooping to this crap.

When this crap is coming from elected republicans and "tea party" groups like Americans for Prosperity saying that "Obama-care" meant nazi death camps, death panels,etc.,then it`s a different story all together.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/05/the-12-most-offensive-sig_n_347398.html?slidenumber=YQKSlGc5xDU%3D&slideshow#slide_image

2nd picture in.Now that`s no home-made poster.That`s a frik`n pro-made wall mural on stanchions to fly it real high in the air.That`s official tea-party signage.

And it`s not like it`s beck`s first time at making nazi references.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqXKoql-VnQ

He`s calling anyone a nazi on a on whim.He also blubbers on a whim like in the vid.

Thanks for the response, Owner.

Some points:

1.  My earlier post specifies many, many examples of liberal, lefties, and/or Democrats who used the Nazi metaphor during the Bush years. Many of them were elected or appointed officials.  It was not an all inclusive list.

2.  These all predate the TEA party, and Beck, and even (I believe) much of Limbaugh's use of the metaphor.

3.  Will you condemn all the "liberals, lefties, and/or Democrats" who use the metaphor?

4.  Will you condemn all the left-leaning posters and public figures who use the metaphor against conservatives and Republicans?  Then, and in the future?

5.  If you, and the other left-of-center posters will agree to do so, then I'm more than willing to condemn any right-of-center posters and public figures who do so.

6.  I believe if you promise this, you might actually keep the promise.  I do not think that any such "brokered peace" with many other posters would last long however, because it seems to me that the use of the metaphor by the left is an old, established custom and practice that is now inherent in their political DNA.  And even if every single left-of-center poster upholds the agreement, your public and political figures would continue to use it.

7.  For an example of my reasoning, you can review the "Could we kindly cut the nazi/communist" thread started by SpinnerofTales (RIP) back almost two years ago.

Best wishes,

Firm



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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:14:00 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

And has a minion to do his fighting for him.....

How lucky is that?


Firm is extremely lucky to have me... and all I do for him.    

That's what happens for guys who are worth it. 

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:15:43 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

However, much of the American left uses it when it is convenient for them, but condemns it vociferously when it is used on them, even slightly.


Oh my! False equivalence strikes again.

The Nazis were a product of the Right. The Right wing has an exclusive monopoly on fascism and ultra-nationalism. Therefore this is a label only applicable to the ultra-conservative side of politics.

To apply these terms to the left makes as much sense as calling the Tea Party Maoists.

Your assumption is that there is any real operative difference in the effects of a totalitarian state such as a "Fascist" state or a "Communist" state, and that only "from the right" can totalitarian states arise.

This concept pleases you, for it fits your ideological bent, and makes you smug and comfortable in your condemnation of things you do not like and do not understand.

Even the concept of "right" and "left" is pretty broad, and misleading, almost to the point of being meaningless.

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:24:03 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

This goes a long way toward confirming my impression that those degrees might as well come in boxes of Froot Loops.


I think you nailed that one, Aswad.

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:25:17 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



quote:

This goes a long way toward confirming my impression that those degrees might as well come in boxes of Froot Loops.


I think you nailed that one, Aswad.


Wouldn't it be interesting if his degree was from the University where you are a professor? 

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:26:52 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Don't even get me started on the educational system.

And the education majors are the worst.

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:31:59 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



quote:

This goes a long way toward confirming my impression that those degrees might as well come in boxes of Froot Loops.


I think you nailed that one, Aswad.

You know, MM, I think your a pretty damn smart guy.

But sometimes, you are just a dick.  Is that your kink?

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: After the shock, here come the crazies.... - 7/26/2011 9:34:15 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Wouldn't it be interesting if his degree was from the University where you are a professor? 




....and very funny if MM had actually taught Firm.

BTW Treasure, as a now only occasional visitor to these boards, your picture is about the only one I still recognise :)


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Profile   Post #: 140
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