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RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 1:59:56 PM

mnottertail

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No the picture is much earlier or later than that, it is either Strom Thurmond the rightwing worshipped child molester, or it is David Duke.

And don't be running around about republicans being the party of Lincoln. It shows how little you know about the the republican party or about Lincoln, or slavery, come to that.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/26/2011 2:02:18 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 2:05:22 PM

FirstQuaker

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They don't like natives either. That is who they mostly go after in Canada, while their buddies in the more gentile and aged sisters like the Orange Order fight the losing battle to maintain the English North American Garrison in Southern Ontario.

Canada as I noted is not immune from this either, though the Dudley Doright and his redcoats can lean on them much harder north of the border. You get on the RCMP's shitlist for sheetwearing, or any other organized racial violence, and it follows you Dominion wide, unlike the US where you have to be really noxious before the FBI keeps serious national tabs on you, and can duck from one jurisdiction to the next.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 22

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 2:09:56 PM

DomKen

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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

To many non-Anglo-Saxons in North America, planet this is a significant facet of the face of North American Anglo-Saxon culture.

In Canada and in the United States, there are still many places where these members of the 'master race' are still active openly, and for every one of them that is there are dozens of their less courageous cousins more secretuively supporting them.

It isn't just the US South, There are plenty of them and their supporters in Ontario, the Maratimes, inland B.C. and Alberta, never mind Utah, the Midwest, Idaho, Montana, and New England.

And guess what? Those guys in the picture were *DEMOCRATS!*
Is that Robert "Sheets" Bird in the middle of that picture?
Republicans, "The Party of Lincoln."
Democrats, "The Party of the Klan."

Nope. Those guys in that picture are more than likely Canadians. That's why they're displaying the Union Jack.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 23

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 2:13:11 PM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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Union Flag.
It hadn't occurred to me that was why they were toting that though. Thank you.

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Post #: 24

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 2:19:23 PM

subwithspirit

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2006
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i do not usually respond to anything here.
this one i could not let go by.
i have always viewed those racist against
anyone as just plain ingnorant and totally
uneducated.
really they have nothing better to do then
stir up hate and discontent
over the color or the religion
of some ones partner or children
or grandchildren.
they best be careful because it seems to me
that the deep color of their skin as now become the
minority in this country.
i wonder how long it will be before they tire of looking as ingorant
as they really are.
i have found in some studies most can not even read past a first or second grade level if that.
maybe that is part of the problem they can not deal with anyone being
smarter then they are.
oh lord that is any of the population over the age of 3.

(in reply to FirstQuaker)

Post #: 25

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 2:41:14 PM

FirstQuaker

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Here is the full set - http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/archives/search/results.aspx?AC=SEE_ALSO&QF0=PHOTO%20SUBJECTS&QI0==%22Fraternal%20organizations%22&XC=/ArchivesSearch/archive/79700/Imperial-Palace---Kanadian-Knights-of-Ku-Klux-Klan-Headquarters-Building-1690-Matthews/default.aspx&BU=&TN=records&SN=AUTO893&SE=968&RN=0&MR=10&TR=0&TX=1000&ES=0&CS=0&XP=&RF=WebFullShare&EF=&DF=WebFullShare&RL=0&EL=0&DL=0&NP=255&ID=&MF=&MQ=&TI=0&DT=&ST=0&IR=0&NR=0&NB=0&SV=0&SS=0&BG=&FG=&QS=&OEX=ISO-8859-1&OEH=ISO-8859-1

Likely good Tories.

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Post #: 26

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 3:22:43 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Nope. Those guys in that picture are more than likely Canadians. That's why they're displaying the Union Jack.

...mild digression.

It's only a Union Jack when flown on a Royal Navy vessel. Otherwise it's the Union Flag.

...back to your regulary scheduled bickering.

ETA a worrying number of Brits dont make the distinction either, so please don't fel bad.

< Message edited by philosophy -- 7/26/2011 3:23:26 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 27

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 8:35:09 PM

gungadin09

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If the school appointed a second valedictorian because of race, then i sincerely hope the court exposes them, and the people responsible lose their jobs.

That said, i have serious problems with both articles. Neither of them contains any statement from the defendant (the school), nor do they say that the principal/superintendent/school board REFUSED to comment. Does that mean that nobody asked them for their side of the story? The student (Kymberly Wimberly) and her mother (Bratton?) claim that the principal nominated a co-valedictorian because Wimberly is black. Bratton, who works at the school, stated that she heard school personnel gossiping about how having Wimberly as valedictorian "might cause a big mess". She did NOT say (or at least, if she did, it wasn't reported) that she heard anyone say that the reason it would "cause a big mess" is because Wimberly is black. Could there be another reason (for example, the fact that she is a teen mother?)

Bratton also states that the principal (Darrell Thompson) told her "that he had decided to name a white student as co-valedictorian". (HER words, HER paraphrase of what the principal told her, not a direct quote from the principal.) But what does that mean? Does that mean, the principal told her they were naming a second valedictorian (who also happened to be white?), or that the principal told her that they were naming "a white student" as second valedictorian BECAUSE he was white? Did he actually say "we have decided to name a WHITE student as a co-valedictorian"? Or did he say "we have decided to name so-and-so as a co-valedictorian?", and she assumed that it was because so-and-so was white?

The reason Kimberly's mother was not allowed to appeal the case to the school board before graduation was because she supposedly filled out the wrong paperwork. Which, if true, is stupid and bureaucratic, but fair.

The article states that the student body of this school is 54% white and 46% African American. That does not seem like an overwhelming majority of white students to be offended at a black valedictorian.

The article also states the the last time the school had a black valedictorian was in 1989. That does look bad, especially for a school that's almost half black. But what is the school's criteria for choosing a valedictorian? How subjective is the criteria? Does the honor always go to the student with the highest GPA, or do they take other factors into account? Is it a straight GPA or weighted for honors and AP classes? Have any black students since 1989 met the criteria to be valedictorian and been passed over in favor of white students who did not meet the criteria? How common is it for the school to have multiple valedictorians? Why does the SCHOOL say that multiple valedictorians were named this year?

i suspect the reason Wimberly was not allowed to be sole valedictorian was not because she's black, but because she's a teen mother. i bet that the school was afraid her history of sexual activity would offend people if she was allowed to represent the school as its sole valedictorian. Maybe the school also felt that their valedictorians need to demonstrate a certain "moral character", and that being sexually active outside of marriage doesn't fit with their ideas of what's moral. Personally, i think *that's* a bad reason to have appointed a co-valedictorian, too. However, depending on how the school has historically chosen it's valedictorians, their decision may have some validity to it. i would not have used sexual activity as a factor in choosing the school valedictorian. But do *they* have the right to do it? i don't know.

These articles disturb me for two reasons. The first is the fact that the plaintiff is playing the race card when it might not be warranted. The claims from both mother and daughter seem exaggerated. They say that the school actively discouraged black students from taking honors and AP classes, because "the work was too hard". They say the school did not support African American students, and had a history of treating white and black students differently. (If that were true, is it possible that for so many years, no one else would have complained?) They say "school administrators and personnel treated the two other white students as heirs apparent to the valedictorian and salutatorian spots." (If that were true, then *why* was Wimberly declared valedictorian first?) They say that Wimberly seeks punitative damages for constitutional violations (which she is CERTAINLY entitled to if she was discriminated against because of her race)...but get this, mother and daughter are also seeking an injuction declaring Wimberly the sole valedictorian of the school's class of 2011. WTF? Graduation is over. Everybody already made their speeches. What good can it possibly do now to get an injuction declaring her SOLE VALEDICTORIAN? To me, that just smacks of prima donna behavior. No, i can't just be A VALEDICTORIAN, i have to be publicly recognised as THE ONE AND ONLY VALEDICTORIAN, despite the fact that graduation is already over. Is she suing for justice or pride?

The second reason the articles disturb me is the willingness of the media to present only one side of a story, and the willingness of so many people to accept that story without question. Don't get me wrong. i realise it's entirely possible that Wimberly really *was* discriminated against because of her race, and if so, i hope they nail the fuckers who did it, but they better really be guilty. i do NOT think these articles did a good job of presenting a thorough and balanced viewpoint, and if Wimberly was discriminated against then the way her story was presented does not do her justice. But i believe it's just as likely that she and her mother are using race as a pretext to sue, because they know they CAN'T sue for discrimination against Wimberly because of her parenthood.

Everybody loves a good crusade. But before you start waving those banners around and calling people to arms, please make sure it's because you've actually given the matter some thought, and NOT because it just feels good to jump on the bandwagon.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 7/26/2011 8:48:57 PM >

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 28

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 8:38:41 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

...back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 29

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/26/2011 11:34:34 PM

LillyBoPeep

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http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/26/valedictorian-sues-school-was-she-snubbed-because-of-race/

that blog talks a bit more about the school's position, but they are choosing not to talk much because of the impending litigation. i can believe, though, that black students were discouraged from taking "difficult classes," because it very nearly happened to me at my high school. an old guidance counselor recommended to me and several other kids i knew that we not take biology in our freshman year because it would be "difficult;" we should instead take general science. well taking general science made it REALLY hard to qualify for a program that made scholarships easier to get. you had to take a specific 4-year track, and if you didn't take biology your freshman year, you were kinda screwed. i didnt listen because i rarely listened to guidance counselors, but a few of my friends did -- and these weren't dumb kids, these were kids who had been straight-A through middle and junior high school, kids who had always been at the top of the class. a few of them DID listen, unfortunately, but you know, when i asked white friends about it, they NEVER got that advice. nearly all of the kids who did were black.

when i talked to my mom about it, she said that even when she was going to that school, that same guidance counselor (he was pretty old by the time i met him, yep, and he "retired" a few years later) had done similar things to kids in her classes, too. things like that CAN happen for generations, and when the people who are complaining are black people who no one cares about anyway, do you seriously think anyone listens to those complaints?

i don't like the one-sided angling of all the articles on this, but i also REALLY don't like the willingness for people to act like things like this don't happen or they "would've been reported by now." they are being reported but people say "oh you're just playing the race card" when you're not.

being valedictorian is important to people. you may not really understand why, but it takes a lot of really hard work (this student took boatloads of AP classes and worked her ass off to get her GPA) -- there's a such thing as a salutatorian, you know -- a title given for the 2nd highest GPA. why not use that for the white student? honestly, if it was the other way around, i'm sure that's how it would've gone. there would be no "co-valedictorian" for a white student. =p i really don't see anything wrong with going back and setting the record straight. she DID have the highest GPA. it's no different than going back in a baseball record and putting an asterisks next to someone's record to show that that person was later found to have used drugs; records are corrected all the time; there's nothing "prima donna" about it.

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Post #: 30

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 12:09:23 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

I'm liking you more and more gungadin09.

Saying the school is "predominantly white" with that breakdown is stretching it really.

There is also Wimberly stating in her complaint that black students are discouraged from taking AP classes, yet apparently SHE was in them.

I agree with you totally. Something just doesn't sit well about this. If there was indeed racism, then by all means, fire those people and make them personally pay fines and damages. But from the information given, it looks like this girl has an agenda where a suit for racial discrimination is not the ultimate reason.

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 31

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 12:16:49 AM

LillyBoPeep

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the fact that she was in them doesn't negate a possibility that students were discouraged from taking them.
i took biology even though i was told countless times it would be "too hard." doesn't change the fact that i, and many others like me, WERE still told not to take it. =p

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RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 12:26:41 AM

gungadin09

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/26/valedictorian-sues-school-was-she-snubbed-because-of-race/

that blog talks a bit more about the school's position, but they are choosing not to talk much because of the impending litigation. i can believe, though, that black students were discouraged from taking "difficult classes," because it very nearly happened to me at my high school. an old guidance counselor recommended to me and several other kids i knew that we not take biology in our freshman year because it would be "difficult;" we should instead take general science. well taking general science made it REALLY hard to qualify for a program that made scholarships easier to get. you had to take a specific 4-year track, and if you didn't take biology your freshman year, you were kinda screwed. i didnt listen because i rarely listened to guidance counselors, but a few of my friends did -- and these weren't dumb kids, these were kids who had been straight-A through middle and junior high school, kids who had always been at the top of the class. a few of them DID listen, unfortunately, but you know, when i asked white friends about it, they NEVER got that advice. nearly all of the kids who did were black.

Lilly, that REALLY sucks.

when i talked to my mom about it, she said that even when she was going to that school, that same guidance counselor (he was pretty old by the time i met him, yep, and he "retired" a few years later) had done similar things to kids in her classes, too. things like that CAN happen for generations, and when the people who are complaining are black people who no one cares about anyway, do you seriously think anyone listens to those complaints?

i don't like the one-sided angling of all the articles on this, but i also REALLY don't like the willingness for people to act like things like this don't happen or they "would've been reported by now." they are being reported but people say "oh you're just playing the race card" when you're not.

i believe it still happens. i just don't believe that the article demonstrated that it happened THIS time. It still may have, but the article did not make a good case, in my opinion.

being valedictorian is important to people. you may not really understand why, but it takes a lot of really hard work (this student took boatloads of AP classes and worked her ass off to get her GPA) -- there's a such thing as a salutatorian, you know -- a title given for the 2nd highest GPA. why not use that for the white student? honestly, if it was the other way around, i'm sure that's how it would've gone. there would be no "co-valedictorian" for a white student. =p i really don't see anything wrong with going back and setting the record straight. she DID have the highest GPA. it's no different than going back in a baseball record and putting an asterisks next to someone's record to show that that person was later found to have used drugs; records are corrected all the time; there's nothing "prima donna" about it.

What i'm trying to say is that i would like to make that judgement based on the facts, and i don't think we heard them all. That does NOT mean (and i thought i said this earlier, but maybe not)... that does NOT mean that if we were to hear all the facts, that they wouldn't prove your point, namely, that the facts might not really show that she WAS discriminated against because of race. She may well have been. But i can't determine that based on the information the article provides. i did not mean to say, she's definitely wrong and the school's right. i mean to say, it's wrong to judge the school based solely on these articles, which are presenting a biased view of the story, and it seems to me that too many people are doing just that.

At my school, there were multiple valedictorians. i'm not sure how they were picked. If it could be shown that this school always names person with the highest GPA as valedictorian, and that in this case they changed their policy, that would be strong evidence against them. i just wish i knew that for a fact.

pam

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 33

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 12:29:08 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

There is also Wimberly stating in her complaint that black students are discouraged from taking AP classes, yet apparently SHE was in them.

Got to go with Lilly on this one. In school, I was rather heavily discouraged from taking metal and wood shop, as well as advanced placement math and biology courses, because I was *gasp* a girl... and girls belonged in home ec and maybe advanced English classes.

Fortunately, my parents really didn't care for the guidance counselor's opinions.

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Post #: 34

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 12:40:09 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

the fact that she was in them doesn't negate a possibility that students were discouraged from taking them.
i took biology even though i was told countless times it would be "too hard." doesn't change the fact that i, and many others like me, WERE still told not to take it. =p

the fact that students were discouraged from taking them may be because they didnt feel the student could handle the work. I got the same story in HS, I was a B- student but wanted to take AP Math, and only got in because another student transferred out. And I Aced it of course.

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Post #: 35

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 2:41:12 AM

gungadin09

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That was a much better article, Lilly, thanks. i think you're right that black students were discouraged from taking AP classes at McGehee. There was a clear difference in the racial makeup of different AP classes, depending on whether teachers encouraged only certain students to enroll. Enrollment in AP biology was about 50/50 (the same as the racial makeup of the school itself), as opposed to other AP classes where there were very few black students.

i don't know about the valedictorianship, though. Apparently the two students were only a few hundreths of a point apart in GPA (Wimberly's was the highest), but the other student had slightly more units, and according to the school's written policy, when weighted those two things cancelled each other out. i would love to see the math. i think they need to demonstrate that that was fair. But i'm not sure that she was entitled to be the sole valedictorian. i would like to see her sue them for discrimination, though, even if she can't sue for a change in valedictorian status.

pam

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 36

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 5:03:56 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Nope. Those guys in that picture are more than likely Canadians. That's why they're displaying the Union Jack.

...mild digression.

It's only a Union Jack when flown on a Royal Navy vessel. Otherwise it's the Union Flag.

...back to your regulary scheduled bickering.

ETA a worrying number of Brits dont make the distinction either, so please don't fel bad.

Excuse me?
I've already pointed that distinction out twice in this thread.

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Post #: 37

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 6:07:53 AM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

To many non-Anglo-Saxons in North America, planet this is a significant facet of the face of North American Anglo-Saxon culture.

In Canada and in the United States, there are still many places where these members of the 'master race' are still active openly, and for every one of them that is there are dozens of their less courageous cousins more secretuively supporting them.

It isn't just the US South, There are plenty of them and their supporters in Ontario, the Maratimes, inland B.C. and Alberta, never mind Utah, the Midwest, Idaho, Montana, and New England.

Aw ... now you just blew up the dearly held notion of the OP that this sort of thing exists only in 'the south,' always and forever more, never anywhere else.

Like this guy too:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

What this principal would probably prefer:

Talk about sacred images ...

The fact of the matter is that outside of the South and large metropolises there ARE no black people, so no opportunity for discrimination.

But finger pointing in service to deflect attention away from shortcomings in one's own backyard is a favorite passtime that endures.

(in reply to FirstQuaker)

Post #: 38

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 6:34:48 AM

FirstQuaker

Posts: 787
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Sorry. There are definitely 'black' people in Alaska, Northern B.C., and the Yukon.

I doubt there is any corner of the Americas, north, central, or south, that does not have some men and women of at least partial African ancestry as part of their people.

500 years of escaped slaves, African sailors jumping ships, and immigration have seen to that.

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 39

RE: Racism alive and doing well in the south - 7/27/2011 7:24:12 AM

Edwynn

Posts: 4105
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Sorry, I was stating it as an absolute, but only in purpose to the rhetorical sense.

In any case, most people would notice the difference between a region being 2-5% black population, which describes most areas where all "the south is racist!" rants originate from, vs. a region being 28-32% black population, which would describe the southern US.

When my folks lived in Illinois, I went to visit and it took me three days to figure out what was 'different' about this place (aside from their truly weird way of speech), because it wasn't something I was looking for. But when I eventually saw the first black person there, the penny dropped.

Yes, there are black people everywhere, but going from a region where the school's racial composition might be 20-50% black kids to a region where my youngest brother was in the HS class that finally had their first black student when he and the ONE black guy were both seniors at that school was a startling realization, to say the least.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/27/2011 8:03:51 AM >

(in reply to FirstQuaker)

Post #: 40

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