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RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 5:52:37 PM

defiantbadgirl

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I don't believe there's any 28 day rule. If there was, my provider wouldn't be advising customers to use hard drives for more space.

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Post #: 161

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 6:05:26 PM

pahunkboy

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28 days - I doubt is the rule in the US.

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RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 6:44:11 PM

ThatDaveGuy69

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I stopped reading after 5 pages so this might have been covered.

To repeat a key point, every TV show, movie, song and book you've ever seen, heard, or read has a copyright that belongs to the author/owner of the work. This does not change with the medium. Eventually, work passes into the public domain as copyrights expire (unless your name is Disney).

Fair use says you can buy a piece of work (movie, album) in one format and convert it to another format for your own personal use. This worked pretty well pre-digital age. Once everything was on CD and DVD it became infinitely easier to copy/distribute/pirate copyrighted material. The music industry missed the boat on didgital protection but not Hollywood. DVD's have some encryption onboard that makes it impossible to copy them with a simple "copy" command. That was very quickly circumvented and the floodgates were opened. Enter the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. The DMCA threw most parts of fair use out the window by making it illegal to distribute anything that would bypass copy protection schemes. That has not, of course, stopped companies like SlySoft from making a good buck writing an app to copy DVD's. But I digress.

When it comes to satellite and CATV, you are purchasing a license to watch the programming you subscribe to. The satellite company you use provides you the ability to "time shift" your viewing by way of a DVR. The subscription does not allow you to copy a program to any other medium for viewing. Your DVR has the capacity of x hours. When it is full you must decide what to get rid of (delete). Your old DVD-R had old copy protection circuitry. The DVR probably told it not to record but it didn't listen. The new DVD-R is listening. This is especially true if you are using a digital connection, ie an HDMI cable. Using analog cables will often bypass the copy protection but unless you are using the 5-cable (RGB) setup, you will have a lower quality image. Hollywood is less concerned with a poor-quality analog copy because who really wants to pay for that? The real concern is with the digital copy because it is a precise 1-to-1 copy.

How did this happen? Hollywood has clout. They have been able to convince the electronics industry to include and update the copy protection schemes in the products they produce. Keep in mind that Sony makes both the DVD players and the movies to play on them. There is a huge push underway from Hollywood to get manufacturers to stop including those RGB connections in satellite and cable boxes so that all content will be digital and thus more easily protected.

So where do this leave you, the person who wants to save shows to a disc? Basically you have a couple of choices. One, find the same model of DVD-R you had on eBay or CraigsList. Or get yours fixed, if possible. Two, record to a computer and burn a disc from there. Happauge makes a nice gadget that takes the RGB signal and sends it to a USB port. They even include a basic editing app so you can remove the commercials.

Best of luck with whatever route you choose.

~Dave

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RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 7:11:34 PM

littlewonder

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Just because he connected your dvd to the dvr doesn't mean it was legal. Hell I've had cable guys hook up extra tvs for me for free even though they are supposed to charge an extra monthly fee for it. I've had internet companies come out to hook up my internet and showed me how to download things from the net for free even though you're supposed to pay. What an individual does at your home does not mean they are following company policy.

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RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 8:03:05 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

28 days - I doubt is the rule in the US.

It used to be and I know this because A&E in the Classroom would have a preamble on their programming to destroy the recordings.

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RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 8:05:50 PM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

28 days - I doubt is the rule in the US.

It used to be and I know this because A&E in the Classroom would have a preamble on their programming to destroy the recordings.

Is that really fair to the children?

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Post #: 166

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 8:12:43 PM

Termyn8or

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Hunky, yes. The last thing you want children to see is this new shit. If I had kids they wouldn't even know color TV existed because of all the stuff I seem to find that intrigues the mind and invokes thought, most of it is B&W. (exceptuions do exist)

When I get my check for my share iof whatever was paid to buy this old shit out of public domain, I will stop watching it. Until then they can go fuck themselves.

T^T

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Post #: 167

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 8:14:17 PM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

28 days - I doubt is the rule in the US.

It used to be and I know this because A&E in the Classroom would have a preamble on their programming to destroy the recordings.

Is that really fair to the children?

I am pretty certain it followed a pattern so that sooner or later it would be repeated.

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Post #: 168

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 8:35:05 PM

Anaxagoras

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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
I don't believe there's any 28 day rule. If there was, my provider wouldn't be advising customers to use hard drives for more space.

I read about the one-month/28 day grace period for recording TV shows relating to the US a while back and saw it again recently on a wiki page I think. I had a good look to find more info but all I could find was a reference to a situation where recording was allowed for 7 days in the late 70’s http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=464&invol=417#f26 how the 28-day rule applied in the UK http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=768929 and various sites talking about the 30 day rule for copyrighted TV material in schools. Basically the issue comes down to time-shifting. When Sony were defending their right to sell Betamax recorders, a ruling was made that recording could be allowed under the guise of time-shifting rather than permanent archiving of material. I have a feeling it may be that there may be no actual time limit placed on time-shifting but it is unofficially thought of as 28 days as being a reasonable time. You should proceed as usual though because its difficult to dig out a reliable source to make the point.

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Post #: 169

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 9:41:04 PM

Anaxagoras

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
Umm, last i checked material each of these company's provide in their service to paying customers are not PUBLIC airways but are privately owned company's yes? Which is why you can't pick up their channels and you PAY for the service of having the movies provided to you. The service you pay for is not material broadcasted to the PUBLIC, but to those who pay for it. Therefore, it still is illegal to copy it and distribute it to yourself as you still have not actually purchased the movie. That is why they provide you with a DVR, yes? Otherwise, why not simply have a DVD records provided?

Companies like DirecTV use whats called "Direct-broadcast satellite" technology so according to the terminology it seems to constitute broadcasting rather than what some call "narrowcasting". In that sense it would be public rather than private as anyone can potentially access it. I think most broadcasting companies in the US are privately owned. I take your point though - perhaps the most meaningful contrast is that it isn't free to air. I'm not sure if there are any rules in terms of fair use that change with regard to that point but assume not as I haven't ever heard that pay-to-view services are subject to a reduced form of fair usage. I'm no expert on these laws though so don't take that as gospel!!!

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Post #: 170

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/29/2011 11:27:27 PM

Termyn8or

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Actually none of this means shit. As long as their employees are not happy enough they will steal, and if they can't sell it which is likely because there is no way to mass market it, they will give it away to spite an employer they see as someone who is fucking them over.

I would not steal a penny, a pen, a tape measure, a screwdriver, much not anything really. But it is they who have given some kind of divine value to this SHIT. As such, I don't steal, I just pick up scrap. And I got some good scrap the other day on which I would like to comment, but I figure, fukit. To many vultures here, maybe I'll mentiion it in one of the dot orgs I am in or something. Personally I don't care what anyone says to me, because as far as I am concerned everyone can go fuck themselves. But when the shit starts threads get closed down, removed or locked or some shit. I am getting tired of this shit and I am not going to cause it.

My friends, see you on the other side about some real shit, issues and such. The rest go fuck yourselves. I have a profile, you can mail me. Just remember I am not starting a bunch of shit out in this forum anymore. Wonder about my opinion ? Mail me. If not fukit. No problem.

If the copyright police ever come to me I kniow what I will do. I don't need any advice, as such I think I will just refrain from giving any to those who would not appreciate it, and most likely wouldn't use it. And that, really, is because they don't have the fucking balls.

T^T

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Post #: 171

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/30/2011 7:01:05 AM

barelynangel

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DBG this is why people seem to get very irritated with you, you imply you have done everything possible with the company that i took you at your word that you actually DID READ everything provided to you with regard to this subject and couldn't find anything. IT TOOK ME SECONDS THIS MORNING when i finally I check myself for the agreements and policies because i couldn't believe a company like DirectTV would be so careless.

Well fuck DBG did you BOTHER to read your Customer Agreement and TOS:

7. DIRECTV® DVR SERVICE AND SOFTWARE LICENSE
DIRECTV DVR Service is a separately sold service, at our rates in effect at the time, available to customers with DVR-enabled Receiving Equipment. DIRECTV DVR Service gives you the ability to see and record televised programs ("Third Party Content"). You understand that DIRECTV does not guarantee the access to or recording of any particular program, or the length of time any particular recorded program may remain available for your viewing. You also understand that Third Party Content is the copyrighted material of the third party that supplies it, is protected by copyright and other applicable laws, and may not be reproduced, published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the written permission of the third party that supplied it, except to the extent allowed under the "fair use" provisions of the U.S. copyright laws or comparable provisions of foreign laws. You agree that DIRECTV will have no liability to you, or anyone else who uses your DIRECTV DVR Service, with regard to any Third Party Content. DIRECTV may, at its discretion, from time to time change, add or remove features of the DIRECTV DVR Service, or change the service fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.
We generally use local telephone calls to provide the DIRECTV DVR Service. You are responsible for such telephone charges and acknowledge and agree that you shall be solely responsible for all disputes with any telephone company related to the same. ...

NOW unless if i have completely misinterpreted these Sections and what they mean by THIRD PARTY CONTENT when it clearly identifies same as "televised programs," DIRECTV has a very clear policy on reproducing and redistributing etc. This means that unless the program you are copying onto a DVD falls under "fair use" or hell i will even give you a written persmission for every show you copy to DVD indicating that you can, what you are doing is ILLEGAL!!! AND in violation of the company's polies and customer agreements.

You are so desperate to get something without buying it and arguing what you are doing is legal and your company LETS you do it, that you don't bother to read the agreement?

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/30/2011 7:11:52 AM >

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Post #: 172

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/30/2011 7:23:50 AM

barelynangel

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Here are some other links to parts of the cite that address the issue:

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/83

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/268

It sounds like the company is trying to keep things on the honor system instead of activating all of the protections it has built into their systems. They try and give their customers te benefit of the doubt that they won't steal the material so they can in fact enjoy it and DirectTV can keep costs down. Just remember DBG when you bitch about the costs and yet copy things to DVD, everytime they have to do something to protect the company and their obligation to the people who actually own the content they provide to you, it costs money and that cost is passed down to the customers.

So again, just because YOU CAN doesn't mean its within their TOS or legal.

angel

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Post #: 173

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/30/2011 7:26:52 AM

Anaxagoras

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Personally I don't care what anyone says to me, because as far as I am concerned everyone can go fuck themselves. But when the shit starts threads get closed down, removed or locked or some shit. I am getting tired of this shit and I am not going to cause it.

My friends, see you on the other side about some real shit, issues and such. The rest go fuck yourselves. I have a profile, you can mail me. Just remember I am not starting a bunch of shit out in this forum anymore. Wonder about my opinion ? Mail me. If not fukit. No problem.

If the copyright police ever come to me I kniow what I will do. I don't need any advice, as such I think I will just refrain from giving any to those who would not appreciate it, and most likely wouldn't use it. And that, really, is because they don't have the fucking balls.

Termy do you never get even the slightest twinge of embarassment at the self righteous shit you write?

Other people have opinions that differ with your own. I know plenty of people will never agree with me. That's life, get used to it.

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Post #: 174

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/30/2011 2:52:20 PM

Termyn8or

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I said fuck them, not you.

Let me explain my logic when it comes to intellectual property.

If you buy a copy of Windows XP Professional Corporate Edition (clonable) and pay for 1,000 site licenses to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars you don't own it. If one of the disks disappears and you happen to find it with the master key, you don't own it.

If you buy a blank DVD for fifty cents, the jury is out on if you actually own it, but you probably don't. If you buy the hottest new movie in the world for top buck on DVD or Bluray or whatever the BESTEST format is de jure, you don't own it. If you happen across a file of that movie on P2P and download it you don't own it.

If you buy a brand new CD of the hottest new group you don't own it. If you make copies you don't own it. If you lose it you don't own it. If you keep it for 100 years you don't own it.

No matter what you do you don't own it.

I realize that artists, actors, writers and musicians must be paid. But the suits up in the upper office are the ones who are flogging dead horses. There comes a time when the money stops, otherwise we would be paying royalties to old Tom Edison's family for every fucking light bulb. For example are you familiar with Buddy Holly* ? When Petty owed him $70,000 back in the 1950s, how much money was actually made ? The suits, the promoters and what are basically salesmen in the business get thousands while the ones who actually produced something get pennies, unless they have a saleable name.

We all know that. And via power and money amassed over the years the suits have effectively made every recording device a criminal tool. Lock me up, fukit.

* Charles Hardin Holly. They thought he was black and didn't worry about it, playing his music before it was released. When he walked in there they just about shit their pants. Richard Petty produced most of his music after that. Lucky for Petty, because the lawsuit would've probably put his ass out of business.

T^T

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Post #: 175

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/30/2011 5:57:14 PM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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I'm glad our DVR ( which I built ) calls ME "Daddy"! I want to export something? I export it. Of course, the DVR is really used for disposable TV, shit no-one would ever want to rewatch like "American Idol" and crap.

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RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/30/2011 6:04:12 PM

Anaxagoras

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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I said fuck them, not you.

That's not what it sounded like but nevermind.

quote:

Let me explain my logic when it comes to intellectual property.

If you buy a copy of Windows XP Professional Corporate Edition (clonable) and pay for 1,000 site licenses to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars you don't own it. If one of the disks disappears and you happen to find it with the master key, you don't own it.

If you buy a blank DVD for fifty cents, the jury is out on if you actually own it, but you probably don't. If you buy the hottest new movie in the world for top buck on DVD or Bluray or whatever the BESTEST format is de jure, you don't own it. If you happen across a file of that movie on P2P and download it you don't own it.

If you buy a brand new CD of the hottest new group you don't own it. If you make copies you don't own it. If you lose it you don't own it. If you keep it for 100 years you don't own it.

I think you do own the black DVD but nonethelss it is a good point you are making. I think one has to make a mental leap to understand this issue. There are in effect two dimensions to products like these. One is the physical item. In law you do own item X. However, you do not own the copyright. As a result purchasing the item means you have a right to use the material contained within the item in certain respects. It is in essence a contract, in a sense similar to a contract between a customer and a retailer because the retailer still has certain obligations toward the customer after the sale. Similarly the buyer automatically enters into a contract with the licencer; the buyer becomes the licencee.

quote:

No matter what you do you don't own it.

Well strictly speaking you could buy the copyright then you could do what you want!

quote:

I realize that artists, actors, writers and musicians must be paid. But the suits up in the upper office are the ones who are flogging dead horses. There comes a time when the money stops, otherwise we would be paying royalties to old Tom Edison's family for every fucking light bulb. For example are you familiar with Buddy Holly* ? When Petty owed him $70,000 back in the 1950s, how much money was actually made ? The suits, the promoters and what are basically salesmen in the business get thousands while the ones who actually produced something get pennies, unless they have a saleable name.

We all know that. And via power and money amassed over the years the suits have effectively made every recording device a criminal tool. Lock me up, fukit.

The issue over intellectual rights goes back a long time. There was a time when it was effectively possible to bootleg anything and the author/creator of the material got very little. I see what you are saying but the issue over royalties isn't black and white. We owe innovators and developers something. Maybe the suits get too much. I wouldn't argue with that. I remember the controversy when record companies were profiteering over CD sales in the 1980's. They actually cost less than LPs to manufacture but cost twice the price. I found that outrageous. It was a product of naked greed because they were already doing well selling LPs. It wasn't right. Did it entitle people to steal CDs from a moral standpoint? I don't think so. Taking action, to pressure companies made some difference and gradually over time the price moderated in the 90's. Pushing for consumer rights and pushing for artist rights can hurt the suits but more slowly than mass pirating and it won't destroy the industry. E.g. when I looked up fair usage I saw a few websites campaigning to improve it.

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Post #: 177

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/30/2011 9:10:34 PM

Termyn8or

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Then perhaps pirating and copying should be considered a market force. Remember, if Sony hadn't won in court there would be no VCRs in this country. The idea was originally to blame the recording device, at least when Sony got sued. Just like people blame guns for shooting deaths.

It's just normal really. The almighty buck. How important is it ? Y'know I've had probably about a hundred cars, and not once did I lock the doors on any of them.

T^T

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Post #: 178

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/30/2011 9:25:07 PM

Lucylastic

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This was in my mailbox... and Time Warner officially complaining that free porn is hurting their bottom line..
This is adult industry website, so it slants.
http://business.avn.com/articles/video/Time-Warner-Cable-Free-Porn-Is-Hurting-Our-Bottom-Line-442917.html

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Post #: 179

RE: Movies recorded on a DVR are copywrited? - 7/31/2011 12:13:20 AM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

DBG this is why people seem to get very irritated with you, you imply you have done everything possible with the company that i took you at your word that you actually DID READ everything provided to you with regard to this subject and couldn't find anything. IT TOOK ME SECONDS THIS MORNING when i finally I check myself for the agreements and policies because i couldn't believe a company like DirectTV would be so careless.

Well fuck DBG did you BOTHER to read your Customer Agreement and TOS:

7. DIRECTV® DVR SERVICE AND SOFTWARE LICENSE
DIRECTV DVR Service is a separately sold service, at our rates in effect at the time, available to customers with DVR-enabled Receiving Equipment. DIRECTV DVR Service gives you the ability to see and record televised programs ("Third Party Content"). You understand that DIRECTV does not guarantee the access to or recording of any particular program, or the length of time any particular recorded program may remain available for your viewing. You also understand that Third Party Content is the copyrighted material of the third party that supplies it, is protected by copyright and other applicable laws, and may not be reproduced, published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the written permission of the third party that supplied it, except to the extent allowed under the "fair use" provisions of the U.S. copyright laws or comparable provisions of foreign laws. You agree that DIRECTV will have no liability to you, or anyone else who uses your DIRECTV DVR Service, with regard to any Third Party Content. DIRECTV may, at its discretion, from time to time change, add or remove features of the DIRECTV DVR Service, or change the service fee for DIRECTV DVR Service.
We generally use local telephone calls to provide the DIRECTV DVR Service. You are responsible for such telephone charges and acknowledge and agree that you shall be solely responsible for all disputes with any telephone company related to the same. ...

NOW unless if i have completely misinterpreted these Sections and what they mean by THIRD PARTY CONTENT when it clearly identifies same as "televised programs," DIRECTV has a very clear policy on reproducing and redistributing etc. This means that unless the program you are copying onto a DVD falls under "fair use" or hell i will even give you a written persmission for every show you copy to DVD indicating that you can, what you are doing is ILLEGAL!!! AND in violation of the company's polies and customer agreements.

You are so desperate to get something without buying it and arguing what you are doing is legal and your company LETS you do it, that you don't bother to read the agreement?

angel

Have you read the rest of the thread, Angel?
It appears as though you haven't.

Someone at Direct TV suggested that to get more space she only needs to download the content of her DVR onto an external Hard drive.
And then gave her the link to that information.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3788511
Post 150

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 7/31/2011 12:15:58 AM >

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

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Post #: 180

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