RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 5:54:21 AM)

Well, when I see this symbol on our healthcare providers, I will know then the NHS is truly finished;

[image]http://mgjack.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/medical_symbol.jpg[/image]


And that because of what the symbol means ;

It is relatively common, especially in the United States, to find the caduceus, with its two snakes and wings, used as a symbol of medicine instead of the correct rod of Asclepius, with only a single snake. This usage is erroneous, popularised largely as a result of the adoption of the caduceus as its insignia by the US Army medical corps in 1902 at the insistence of a single officer (though there are conflicting claims as to whether this was Capt. Frederick P. Reynolds or Col. John R. van Hoff).[14][15]

The rod of Asclepius is the dominant symbol for healthcare professionals and associations in the United States. One survey found that 62% of healthcare professionals used the rod of Asclepius, while 76% of commercial healthcare organizations used the caduceus.[16]

The initial errors leading to its adoption and the continuing confusion it generates are well known to medical historians. The long-standing and abundantly attested historical associations of the caduceus with commerce, theft, deception, and death are considered by many to be inappropriate in a symbol used by those engaged in the healing arts.[15] This has occasioned significant criticism of the use of the caduceus in a medical context.

As god of the high-road and the market-place Hermes was perhaps above all else the patron of commerce and the fat purse: as a corollary, he was the special protector of the traveling salesman. As spokesman for the gods, he not only brought peace on earth (occasionally even the peace of death), but his silver-tongued eloquence could always make the worse appear the better cause. From this latter point of view, would not his symbol be suitable for certain Congressmen, all medical quacks, book agents and purveyors of vacuum cleaners, rather than for the straight-thinking, straight-speaking therapeutist? As conductor of the dead to their subterranean abode, his emblem would seem more appropriate on a hearse than on a physician's car.

—Stuart L. Tyson, "The Caduceus", in The Scientific Monthly[17]

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius)

Simple symbology, it says it all !




mnottertail -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:02:09 AM)

http://www.pittsburghwrongfuldeathattorney.com/2011/03/insurance-companies-refuse-to-pay-for-tbi-rehabilitative-therapy.shtml

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/17/business/fi-rescind17

Uh........this canard about rationing brought to you by the imbecile crowd is fucking stupider than they normally are.  Insurance companies do it by the billions and billions a year. 




Sanity -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:02:41 AM)


No, private insurer contracts are negotiated - honest! [:D]

You guys crack me up...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

[quote]ORIGINAL: Sanity


With private insurance you or your employer can control coverage levels by choosing different contracts

With the public model private insurers are pushed out of the picture by "free" health care coverage

Its hard to compete with "free" after all

And then everyone suffers as service grows ever worse, doctors and nurses abandon the field due to lower and lower pay and the nation goes broke trying to feed an inefficient socialist system

Just as we see in Europe

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

How about health care is rationed by both NHS and insurance companies, the main difference being NHS rations non urgent treatment while insurance companies deliberately ration in cases of life threatening illness.




No you can't dumbass you either take what the company gives you or you are on your own. quit fucking lying.




mnottertail -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:12:21 AM)

Why are you running that strawman, got nothing again,,,,,still?




kdsub -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:14:57 AM)

With the money they save not having to pay outlandish healthcare costs they can afford to take a nice holiday to Thailand and get their operation if they don’t want to wait and still come out ahead money wise.

Butch




Sanity -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:16:20 AM)


Except their country is being taxed to the point that its becoming a shit hole, a third world slum

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

With the money they save not having to pay outlandish healthcare costs they can afford to take a nice holiday to Thailand and get their operation if they don’t want to wait and still come out ahead money wise.

Butch




mnottertail -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:19:33 AM)

Eres da fing doe, guv.  Unemployment less than ours, right off the bat.  A slum?  Yeah, look the fuck around you, what you got? 




kdsub -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:30:12 AM)

quote:

Except their country is being taxed to the point that its becoming a shit hole, a third world slum


If this is the case then why does the UK have fewer people, by percent of population, living in poverty then the US?

Butch




Aneirin -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:32:34 AM)

Well, even over here we saw Obama's live speech and we are aware the US is in real shit soup regards it's finances at the moment, the question is, what happens when you default ?

And if you don't, which of the two sides is going to give up the most, that will be interesting to see, but from over here, the reports we see coming out of the US, things certainly aren't too rosy over there with regards to the majority of US citizens, where it is said America is having a jobless recovery.




mnottertail -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:32:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Except their country is being taxed to the point that its becoming a shit hole, a third world slum


So, as long as you pay thru the nose for everything, throw all your cash away directly from your wallet,  everything is much much sweeter.





Lucylastic -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:36:10 AM)

He is pissed at me chaps, sorry, but he lashes out like that when he blows a gasket.
admittedly Ive tired of the game for today, so I leave you , hoping some normalcy(or at least facts) creeps back in.
Have fun:)




tj444 -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:46:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
* Hip and knee replacements only being allowed where patients are in severe pain. Overweight patients will be made to lose weight before being considered for an operation.

that is an interesting concept except how does someone overweight lose weight when they cant move/exercise? (scratches head)




tj444 -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 6:54:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

With the money they save not having to pay outlandish healthcare costs they can afford to take a nice holiday to Thailand and get their operation if they don’t want to wait and still come out ahead money wise.

Butch

the main problem with travel to Thailand or India or any of those places is that if you pick the wrong Doctor & he/she is negligent and they screw it up, then you cant sue his/her ass off as you can in the US, etc.




Sanity -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 7:34:48 AM)


Thailands wonderful free health care? [;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

With the money they save not having to pay outlandish healthcare costs they can afford to take a nice holiday to Thailand and get their operation if they don’t want to wait and still come out ahead money wise.

Butch

the main problem with travel to Thailand or India or any of those places is that if you pick the wrong Doctor & he/she is negligent and they screw it up, then you cant sue his/her ass off as you can in the US, etc.




DomYngBlk -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 7:37:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


No, private insurer contracts are negotiated - honest! [:D]

You guys crack me up...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


With private insurance you or your employer can control coverage levels by choosing different contracts

With the public model private insurers are pushed out of the picture by "free" health care coverage

Its hard to compete with "free" after all

And then everyone suffers as service grows ever worse, doctors and nurses abandon the field due to lower and lower pay and the nation goes broke trying to feed an inefficient socialist system

Just as we see in Europe

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

How about health care is rationed by both NHS and insurance companies, the main difference being NHS rations non urgent treatment while insurance companies deliberately ration in cases of life threatening illness.




No you can't dumbass you either take what the company gives you or you are on your own. quit fucking lying.



Have you ever even bought a policy before?




tj444 -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 7:38:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Thailands wonderful free health care? [;)]

does it matter if its free or not, if a doctor screws up then what?




Sanity -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 7:42:48 AM)


Fewer illegal aliens?

Fewer big liberal cities pushing governmental dependency?

I dont know. You tell me.

Even according to the far lef Guardian though, theyre spiraling downward due to leftist policies:


quote:

One in five households in fuel poverty as energy prices soar


5.5m homes spend over 10% of income on fuel, and bills will rise further to fund new power networks

[image]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/7/14/1310672238575/Fuel-poverty-005.jpg[/image]


The Department of Energy and Climate Change statistics show one in five households in the UK are in fuel poverty. Photograph: Alamy Figures show a huge rise in UK households in fuel poverty, even before expected rises in the price of gas and electricity, and charities predicted that this winter would see millions more people struggling to keep warm at home.

The Department of Energy and Climate Change statistics show 700,000 more UK families fell into fuel poverty in 2009, bringing the total to 5.5 million — one in five of all households. In the UK, fuel poverty is when a household needs to spend more than 10% of its income on fuel in order to heat its home to an adequate standard, and have hot water and run lights and appliances.

The department admitted that 100,000 more families in England alone were expected to go into fuel poverty this year.

The figures came less than a week after British Gas said its gas prices will rise by an average of 18% and electricity bills by 16%. Scottish Power has also raised its gas prices by 19% and electricity by 10%, while other power companies are expected to follow suit, blaming wholesale gas prices.

The government has admitted that bills will have to rise additionally to pay for a major rebuilding of the UK's power networks.Michelle Mitchell, charity director at Age UK, said it was astonishing that help for poorer households through the Warm Front subsidy scheme was being phased out despite "scandalous" power bills. "The promised solutions contained in the [government's] Green Deal don't come into force until late 2012 – too late for the millions of people struggling to heat their homes this winter," she added.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/jul/14/households-fuel-poverty-energy-prices






quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Except their country is being taxed to the point that its becoming a shit hole, a third world slum


If this is the case then why does the UK have fewer people, by percent of population, living in poverty then the US?

Butch




Sanity -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 7:44:07 AM)


If its "free" (aka government care) you cant sue and you cant complain

So yes

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Thailands wonderful free health care? [;)]

does it matter if its free or not, if a doctor screws up then what?




mnottertail -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 7:50:25 AM)

That is wholly false.  You are lying, and misinforming, as usual.  You cannot debate the actual issues. 




tj444 -> RE: Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing (7/29/2011 7:52:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If its "free" (aka government care) you cant sue and you cant complain

So yes

if that is the case then thanks but no thanks.. jmo




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