RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation"

RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (7/31/2011 3:12:02 PM)
your once great country is in the shitter because of your dumbarse governments who want to rule and rape the world and dont have a clue how to make sure its sustainable and gave everything to the corporations nothing to do with the poor except they were "expendable" in the face of technology and greed. Youve screwed yourself, but of course its the homeless and the poor who have all the control and funds, they just fucked themselves over by believing that working hard was going to be enough to live on.

gaybottomslave -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (7/31/2011 3:21:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne thanks for clearing that up! left = give money away right = give no money away. "isle" people are all loons I'm sorry but these lefty righty arguments are so fucking infantile I could puke. You're 100% right about the left wanting to give money (as long as it is not theirs) away. Why should someone be allowed to suck off the public trough? This country is completely fucked because too many people think that it is okay to be a lazy, worthless, leech. I've said it before, I'm not totally against welfare...but welfare should be a helping hand up--not a permanent way of life.

Real0ne -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (7/31/2011 3:32:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic your once great country is in the shitter because of your dumbarse governments who want to rule and rape the world and dont have a clue how to make sure its sustainable and gave everything to the corporations nothing to do with the poor except they were "expendable" in the face of technology and greed. Youve screwed yourself, but of course its the homeless and the poor who have all the control and funds, they just fucked themselves over by believing that working hard was going to be enough to live on. nice post! what lucy said! That is what de-MOBcracy does you see. it pits one MOB of VOTERS against the other MOB of VOTERS in a perpetual NO WIN ass kicking contest of and over bullshit ENTITLEMENTS because everyone has been suckered into thinking they will get something out of "it" and that would not exist if the constitution had been adhered to, the common law and republic maintained. The only way any one of you all can be remotely credible is if you want to get rid of literally all taxation and all entitlements, except life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Otherwise its the same shit different day of pots calling kettles black doo de dah!

Edwynn -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (7/31/2011 3:59:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gaybottomslave Why should someone be allowed to suck off the public trough? This country is completely fucked because too many people think that it is okay to be a lazy, worthless, leech. Good question. Why don't we ask Exxon and GE and Monsanto and Goldman Sachs and Koch Brothers and a host of other leaches on the US Treasury why they keep stealing our money even while posting record breaking profits? Oh, that's right, it's because YOU voted for the bitches that turned on the hydrants. Stupidity can't be helped, I understand, but duct tape isn't too expensive and could do wonders in making you sound less stupid, if properly applied. Find a neighbor to help you out there. I'm not saying that giving more money to poor people would solve all problems here. I am saying that giving the richest bastards such a large portion of tax dollars causes problems beyond initial cost, substantial as that is. Problems that create more jobless and homeless.

tweakabelle -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (7/31/2011 9:46:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gaybottomslave You're 100% right about the left wanting to give money (as long as it is not theirs) away. Why should someone be allowed to suck off the public trough? This country is completely fucked because too many people think that it is okay to be a lazy, worthless, leech. I've said it before, I'm not totally against welfare...but welfare should be a helping hand up--not a permanent way of life. The largest single reason why the US is so much in debt is the two wars in Asia - both of which were initiated by a Republican President: Cost of War in Iraq & Afghanistan Total Cost of Wars Since 2001 $1,225,310,385,917 http://www.costofwar.com/ I am unsure how much the US has contributed towards keeping its poor and needy alive and housed during the same period. But I gravely doubt if the figure remotely approaches the average c$122,531,000,000 per annum spent on wars, one of which was totally unnecessary. That more is spent causing death and mayhem overseas than keeping your own citizens alive speaks for itself. So the causes of your country's debt problems have far more to do with the "lazy, worthless, leech[es]" in the Bush Administration, which enriched their plutocrat buddies through the wars at the expense of the poor US taxpayer than the homeless or the needy. If you wish to solve this problem, a good place to start is identifying precisely what caused the problem and then remedying the defect. Reining in the bloated defence budget, increasing taxation on the oligarchs and withdrawing tax concessions to the giant corporations and the rich would be an effective beginning.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (7/31/2011 10:50:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Total Cost of Wars Since 2001 $1,225,310,385,917 http://www.costofwar.com/ I am unsure how much the US has contributed towards keeping its poor and needy alive and housed during the same period. But I gravely doubt if the figure remotely approaches the average c$122,531,000,000 per annum spent on wars, one of which was totally unnecessary. Not even close. Welfare spending in the US during that period averaged 4x that per year during the same period.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (7/31/2011 11:21:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Total Cost of Wars Since 2001 $1,225,310,385,917 http://www.costofwar.com/ I am unsure how much the US has contributed towards keeping its poor and needy alive and housed during the same period. But I gravely doubt if the figure remotely approaches the average c$122,531,000,000 per annum spent on wars, one of which was totally unnecessary. Not even close. Welfare spending in the US during that period averaged 4x that per year during the same period. [image]local://upfiles/265074/23DA660A86A84F129571307F4BA242CB.jpg[/image]

tweakabelle -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 12:07:36 AM)
Willbur you really ought to know that Social Security and Social Insurance taxes bring in approx 40% of the US Govt's income. So Social Security almost pays for itself and Medicare/Medicaid (which together account for 43% of total US Govt expenditure). The shortfall or subsidy from General Revenue is c 3%. So the nett cost (revenue minus expenditure) to the US taxpayer is small. And in the chart you supplied, the max annual figure for the cost of 'Welfare" was $701 billion in 2010. Considerably less than the figures on the annual cost of Iraq/Afghanistan supplied above, not 4 times more. All figures from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#Major_expenditure_categories

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 7:52:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Willbur you really ought to know that Social Security and Social Insurance taxes bring in approx 40% of the US Govt's income. So Social Security almost pays for itself and Medicare/Medicaid (which together account for 43% of total US Govt expenditure). The shortfall or subsidy from General Revenue is c 3%. So the nett cost (revenue minus expenditure) to the US taxpayer is small. And in the chart you supplied, the max annual figure for the cost of 'Welfare" was $701 billion in 2010. Considerably less than the figures on the annual cost of Iraq/Afghanistan supplied above, not 4 times more. All figures from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#Major_expenditure_categories You really ought to know that $701 billion IN ONE YEAR is far more than the ANNUAL cost of the wars that over 10 YEARS, especially since thats the very question you asked. The average over the same period was a bit above 4x as I said. You also really ought to know that Social Security and Health benefits (Medicare/Medicaid) werent included in the graph's numbers, so your nonsense about 40% of the governments income is your usual diversionary bullshit.

mnottertail -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 8:02:45 AM)
Asswipe. There is no budget item called welfare. By far the largest category in there is federal retirement and disability followed by unemployment INSURANCE (something a peddler should know about). Having been paid in, now you whine cuz we have to pay off? Get a fuckin' job.

RacerJim -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 8:34:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto How we define a term or a word makes a big difference in a rational discussion. I participate on vanilla Internet discussion boards on the topics of Politics & Religion as well as this one. On one, I posted my concern that, if the government went into default, my Army retirement check (I served 27 years combined active Army and Army Reserves) and my military disability check (hearing loss due to an exploding IED) might be affected. One self-identified Tea Party supporter responded that my Army retirement check and my military disability checks were "entitlements" and not "obligations". The poster took the position that military retirement checks and military disability checks were the same as welfare checks and should be eliminated as part of the overall plan to reduce "big government" and "excessive government spending". I contend that my Army retirement checks and my disability checks are "obligations" on the part of the federal government based on the contract I made with the United States for my 27 years of military service. I acknowledge that this individual, though they claim to be a Tea Party member, may not reflect the general position of all Tea Party members. In the context of federal government expenditures, do you define retirement checks and medical disability checks to military and civilian federal government employees "entitlements" or "obligations"? First and foremost, THANK YOU for your 27 years of military service! Secondly, military pay (active duty and retired), healthcare and disability compensation are absolutely, posititvely OBLIGATIONS of the Federal government per the enlistment contract it entered into with military personel. Third, no true Tea Party supporter would take the position that military recompense is the same as welfare. Fourth, I am a Tea Party supporter. Fifth, I am a Vietnam Veteran and consider my VA benefits as OBLIGATIONS of the Federal government per the enlistment contract it entered into with me. Sixth, two days ago while visiting our troops in Afghanistan, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairnan Admiral Mullen told those troops he doesn't know if they will get paid if a debt ceiling deal doesn't get passed by August 2. If Admiral Mullen truely doesn't know, or does but doesn't have the guts to call Obama's bluff, then he should immediately resign.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 8:39:54 AM)
Its hard to believe there are 80+ posts between yours and mine chewing over what seemed to be a straightforward question with a straightforward LEGAL answer!

thishereboi -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 8:42:51 AM)
quote: The poster took the position that military retirement checks and military disability checks were the same as welfare checks and should be eliminated as part of the overall plan to reduce "big government" and "excessive government spending". Some people are idiots. We had one on here the other day claiming that police officers are "sucking on the government tit" because their pay comes from public funds. You will never convince people like this of the truth. Just ignore him and move on.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 9:16:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: The poster took the position that military retirement checks and military disability checks were the same as welfare checks and should be eliminated as part of the overall plan to reduce "big government" and "excessive government spending". Some people are idiots. We had one on here the other day claiming that police officers are "sucking on the government tit" because their pay comes from public funds. You will never convince people like this of the truth. Just ignore him and move on. Was that the claim or was it that poorly structured union promulgated pension plans have the potential to vastly inflate the value of their benefits beyond what is reasonable? I agree with you, if its the former, its ridiculous.

mnottertail -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 9:22:24 AM)
It should go without saying, but I will say it anyway.... The US military is not unionized.

Moonhead -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 11:29:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic your once great country is in the shitter because of your dumbarse governments who want to rule and rape the world and dont have a clue how to make sure its sustainable and gave everything to the corporations nothing to do with the poor except they were "expendable" in the face of technology and greed. Youve screwed yourself, but of course its the homeless and the poor who have all the control and funds, they just fucked themselves over by believing that working hard was going to be enough to live on. nice post! what lucy said! That is what de-MOBcracy does you see. it pits one MOB of VOTERS against the other MOB of VOTERS in a perpetual NO WIN ass kicking contest of and over bullshit ENTITLEMENTS because everyone has been suckered into thinking they will get something out of "it" and that would not exist if the constitution had been adhered to, the common law and republic maintained. The only way any one of you all can be remotely credible is if you want to get rid of literally all taxation and all entitlements, except life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Otherwise its the same shit different day of pots calling kettles black doo de dah! I know you're a man who enjoys getting his shit wrong, but you live in a republic, not a democracy.

Moonhead -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 11:30:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail It should go without saying, but I will say it anyway.... The US military is not unionized. I wonder if they'd send in the National Guard as strike breakers if it was unionised?

mnottertail -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 11:34:20 AM)
Actually they have sent federal and state troops as strikebreakers long after the Posse Comitatus Act was made law. Carnagie Steel in NY comes to mind right off....

Moonhead -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 11:40:15 AM)
Right. I was thinking more of the depression, but there's a few cases long after they're meant to have stopped doing that, aren't there?

mnottertail -> RE: Budget differences - Define "Entitlement" & "Obligation" (8/1/2011 12:17:13 PM)
Well, not everybody seems to get the news.......

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