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RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/30/2011 8:40:52 PM

HannahLynHeather

Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
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subspace is a temporary condition voluntarily entered into, pretty much like getting drunk or stoned.
being in love doesn't remove the ability to say no.

try again, but then again if this is what you got, then don't even bother. i'd rather argue with leadership, at least his bullshit is based on his interpretation of real world experiences.

_____________________________

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fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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Post #: 21

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/30/2011 8:44:44 PM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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I really don't care. Your ignorance is not my problem.

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Post #: 22

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/30/2011 9:15:24 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
B) The simplest method of bypassing consent is to make your sub fall in love with you.

Love does not mean consent is bypassed, it just means consent is given because of love. Even when a sub is in love with her Dom, there are still limits and she will only consent until those limits are hit. Try to go past her limits and her consent ends. It certainly did with me..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 23

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/30/2011 9:42:48 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

B) The simplest method of bypassing consent is to make your sub fall in love with you.

Damn you! This one got me thinking as soon as you posted it.

I don't think it bypasses it, but it sure does shove it way off to the side. I've done a LOT of things because I love Hanners. Yes I consented, and I was of sound mind, but I can't help but ask myself if I would have consented if I weren't quite so besotted.

But when I think about it, it really doesn't matter why I consented, I did. I wasn't forced by my love, and she never pulled the "If you love me" or "Prove your love" crap, so my loving her wasn't used to get leverage. I love her and will try my best to do whatever it takes to make her smile.

The same goes for Suze and Cheri, so it's not a D/s thing, just a love thing.

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 24

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/30/2011 10:08:46 PM

Awareness

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Joined: 9/8/2010
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Love most often bypasses the rational part of our brains. Only a crude idiot would use emotional blackmail to achieve their ends - it's completely unnecessary. When motivated by love, people will do extraordinary things.

There's another more abusive example - Stockholm Syndrome. Women caught in an abusive relationship are often suffering Stockholm Syndrome and despite the best intentions of their friends and family are unable to get out - despite being desperately afraid and unhappy.

From what I can gather - not being familiar with that world - pimps use a combination of both. Some may use drugs, but that's not the only mechanism that works. You may know someone who has a better insight than I.

My point is that 'consent' is not quite what we think it is. And I must confess, at Hanner's age I was of a similar mind. I found all manipulation detestable. However in the intervening years, I've discovered people aren't quite what I thought they were and that our world isn't as simple and clean as I thought it was. We influence each other all the time. In any interaction between people, influence is the unspoken currency, the elephant in the room which nobody discusses.

Ultimately what it comes down to for me is this. The strong influence the weak. There's no question about that. So the difference between arbitrary ideas of 'right' and 'wrong' is not the means, but the ends. Not the method, but the intent. That doesn't mean the ends justify the means, but if the means itself is not intrinsically harmful, it's the outcome which matters.

Therapists use such techniques to heal. Sociopaths can use such techniques to inflict damage, fear and pain. Intent is the difference between the two.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

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Post #: 25

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 1:54:13 AM

kinkyslutdoll

Posts: 25
Joined: 7/30/2011
From: Cumberland, MD, USA
Status: offline

I'm surprised at all the negativity surrounding this idea. There is the concept of "consensual nonconsent." BDSM is all about trust, particularly in edgeplay. You should be able to trust your partner with your life. Another assumption I think people are making about this concept is that while yes, brainwashing and other behaviorial modification techniques can indeed be very harmful (yet with hundreds of other BDSM activities much more so---asphyxiation, gunplay, etc.), but for people wanting this sort of treatment, they're usually 24/7 lifestyle submissives who have no need to continue functioning in society, so their minds are free to be warped as severely as their owners wish them to. I've seen many people on BDSM sites who're only into BDSM as "play" and do not involve their public life in it. If you're one of those people, then yes, the idea you could be psychologically damaged permanently is very scary and wrong. But if it is what someone wants, and they've found someone they trust enough to consensually do it to them, how can you deny their kink? Personally, I think it's super hot lol :-D.

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 26

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 2:08:12 AM

HeatherMcLeather

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Joined: 5/21/2011
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quote:

they're usually 24/7 lifestyle submissives who have no need to continue functioning in society, so their minds are free to be warped as severely as their owners wish them to.

You're idea that a 24/7 slave has no interaction with the outside world is so completely ludicrous that I just don't know where to begin. I am a 24/7 lifestyle submissive, I'm an owned slave. Yet I, for some reason, still have a need to continue functioning in society. I need an education, I need a job, I need to go shopping. Oddly enough, I need pretty much all the same things any 18-year old needs, so I have to be able to function in society.

(in reply to kinkyslutdoll)

Post #: 27

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 2:09:29 AM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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My general take is that if someone needs something to loosen up, maybe they shouldn't engage in that form of kinky activity.

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ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

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Post #: 28

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 2:10:55 AM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Frogshit.

There's a visual I could do without. :D

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Post #: 29

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 2:11:52 AM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
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From: The dog house
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A very good point DD.

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Post #: 30

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 4:02:08 AM

kinkyslutdoll

Posts: 25
Joined: 7/30/2011
From: Cumberland, MD, USA
Status: offline

@Heather It really depends on what sort of lifestyle and philosophy you have on BDSM. Another major factor is economics. Obviously not all couples can afford to have one of them not work. But if one partner's income is high enough, then it becomes a realistic option, again assuming that this sort of BDSM experience is what is desired by the participants' philosophy. Even just 60 years ago, it was not uncommon for women (historically considered the "submissive" gender) to gain an education and a job, but only until marriage. After marriage, they were expected to quit their job and stay at home to take care of their man and prepare for children. The kind of BDSMers interested in these sorts of psychological activities are similar in that sort of philosophy, that the submissive's sole responsibility is toward their owner, not toward any other individual or institution, including a boss or professor. It really is just a matter of personal preference regarding what are your goals in life. For many, having a life outside of BDSM is still important, but those who think otherwise shouldn't be put down for a mere difference in outlook.

< Message edited by kinkyslutdoll -- 7/31/2011 4:05:06 AM >

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

Post #: 31

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 5:03:27 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

ok, that settles it, if aynne and i agree, then we simply have to be on the right fucking track. because she and i can't even agree to disagree.

Oh fuck me. I agree too....

Ya know Hannah...you have great potential to turn into a middle aged ass whore just like Aynne and I are.

< Message edited by Aileen1968 -- 7/31/2011 5:30:37 AM >

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Post #: 32

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 6:09:44 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaXIX

Hello CM,

This is my first posting here (ok my second as I posted on the introduce yourself board) so please be nice if I am getting this a little wrong.

So to the point.

I have seen that a number of Subs/Slaves have expressed an interest into being ‘used’/’trained’ under the influence of Relyfe Programming.

Now when I was finding my feet in the realms of BDSM (oh so many years ago) I was given the advice that:

“You should never play under or with someone under the influence of drink, drugs or mess with hypnotism.”

Sorry that I'm not going to expound on your actual thread topic, but I actually stopped right here.

If you want to puff up your chest with your 'oh so many years ago' I'm going to tell you that you're full of it. Hell, I didn't get My 'feet wet' until the late nineties and I can promise you that what you are trying to pull off here wasn't the majority opinion in the kink community. Who are you trying to kid?

It's only been since about 2003/2004 that the consensus on this subject changed. It had to do more about driving while impaired than what you are trying to pass over here. It didn't have shit to do with the actual scenes. More, it was about what happened when folks left the actual club.

So, please, take that 'oh, so many years ago', and kindly shove it where the sun don't shine. It might help to prevent you from being full of shit.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to VanillaXIX)

Post #: 33

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 7:02:45 AM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

ok, that settles it, if aynne and i agree, then we simply have to be on the right fucking track. because she and i can't even agree to disagree.

Oh fuck me. I agree too....

Ya know Hannah...you have great potential to turn into a middle aged ass whore just like Aynne and I are.

Ha! Hahahahaha! I love you.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 34

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 7:14:58 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Love most often bypasses the rational part of our brains. Only a crude idiot would use emotional blackmail to achieve their ends - it's completely unnecessary. When motivated by love, people will do extraordinary things.

Sure, when someone is in love they will push their limits to please the one they love but they still have limits they will not go beyond, they will refuse to consent further.

And... if love bypasses the rational part of our brains.. then too one could say that sex bypasses many/most?/all? mens brains. Men will do many things to get and keep having sex..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 35

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 7:58:17 AM

HannahLynHeather

Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
Status: offline

quote:

Oh fuck me. I agree too....

Ya know Hannah...you have great potential to turn into a middle aged ass whore just like Aynne and I are.

well i am getting close to the big three-oh. oh fuck, thanks for reminding me, now i really fucking hate you!

die bitch die!

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 36

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 9:04:27 AM

VanillaXIX

Posts: 8
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: The West Country
Status: offline

Dear LadyPack,

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and I am very sorry to hear that you appear to have missed the point of what I am getting at.

1. The remark I made 'oh so many years ago' was not said to puff my chest out or big up my own ego. It was said because as I was writing the post I realised how much time has passed by and maybe I was not as up to date with the current consensus as maybe I should be. (Although I may not agree with the current consensus I should at least be up to date with it)

2. I am European and Drink and Drug Driving has been enforced a lot longer that in the USA.

3. I do not drink or do drugs as I am a teetotal and do not encourage others to drink or do drugs.

4. I believe in consent from all parties or no play.

5. I believe that if someone needs stimulants (drink, drugs, etc.) to open them to their fantasies and/or desires they should seek professional help before playing and not trust themselves to someone who has read a book about hypnotism that is sold as entertainment.

6. I had never endorsed the Relyfe Programming technique nor am I likely to in the future. I am just concerned that some people are thinking out about using it without knowing the potential consequences (good or BAD)

7. I am a disciple of the Greenery Press (http://www.greenerypress.com) and the teachings of the Janet Hardy and Jay Wiseman school(s) of thought (and this was the only material I could get in the UK in 1995/6).

So if you think that to be a concerned for the health and safe wellbeing of other members of ‘The Life’ makes me, as you so elegantly put it, “being full of S£!t” then I thank you for revealing a glimpse of your true nature in such an open media/forum.

Yours,

Matt x.

_____________________________

The White knight Powered by SunLight =D

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Post #: 37

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 2:18:19 PM

MissImmortalPain

Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline

*gets out her two cents*

To the op. I actually do know why you asked and honestly all I can tell you is...opinions differ. I remember in the late 80's when we were told not to play had we been drinking or doing drugs(and this was a decade when everyone I knew did one the other or both) but I know a lot of people that did anyway. I personally don't now because the two times I did it ended badly. Not going to get into the hows or whys of it but I learned that I would rather not have it happen again. As to the topic of relyfe programming, or erotic hypnosis, well again opinions differ. I have done deep regression hypnosis with a few people over the years and yes on many levels it can be dangerous(even deadly) In my opinion it is not something that should be done by those not willing to do their homework. Like many things it can be studied, learned, and used as a tool. Real hypnosis takes years to master. It is not just a matter of reading a book and bypassing someones morals. It is not magic, or a jedi mind trick, the way some make it sound. And often when those people think they have someone under their control they infact do not. Hypnosis can weaken ones inhibitions but it can not remove the rules by which they live their lives. Sadly it has been my experience that is what many are looking for. Those that call themself "slaves" (note the quotes before anyone jumps on me) that say they want to be treated as property, as trash, to be used and thrown away often think that this sort of programming will make it easier.

ETA- a subliminal suggestion that I bet you can't find.

*takes her two cents and goes home*

< Message edited by MissImmortalPain -- 7/31/2011 2:25:12 PM >

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to VanillaXIX)

Post #: 38

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 3:00:49 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VanillaXIX

Dear LadyPack,

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and I am very sorry to hear that you appear to have missed the point of what I am getting at.

I'm going to forgive the typo on the name, even though it isn't that hard to spell.

quote:

1. The remark I made 'oh so many years ago' was not said to puff my chest out or big up my own ego. It was said because as I was writing the post I realised how much time has passed by and maybe I was not as up to date with the current consensus as maybe I should be. (Although I may not agree with the current consensus I should at least be up to date with it)

This says to Me that you're not doing much socializing with other kinky folks, attending clubs, and so on.

quote:

2. I am European and Drink and Drug Driving has been enforced a lot longer that in the USA.

Good to know.

quote:

3. I do not drink or do drugs as I am a teetotal and do not encourage others to drink or do drugs.

Here's part of the hang up. I'm not "encouraging" anybody to do anything. I'm presenting you with information of what some folks actually do.

quote:

4. I believe in consent from all parties or no play.

There wasn't one word of My post that said anything about this.

quote:

5. I believe that if someone needs stimulants (drink, drugs, etc.) to open them to their fantasies and/or desires they should seek professional help before playing and not trust themselves to someone who has read a book about hypnotism that is sold as entertainment.

Tell you what. Since I don't want to break the rules of the forums, why don't you send Me an email on the other side of the name of the person you have actually seen with your own eyes put themselves in the hands of somebody who has just read the book for entertainment, and it's gone wrong because they lost the ability to consent. If it's just stuff you're reading on profiles, you're tilting at windmills.

quote:

6. I had never endorsed the Relyfe Programming technique nor am I likely to in the future. I am just concerned that some people are thinking out about using it without knowing the potential consequences (good or BAD)

White Knight Syndrome. Got it.

quote:

7. I am a disciple of the Greenery Press (http://www.greenerypress.com) and the teachings of the Janet Hardy and Jay Wiseman school(s) of thought (and this was the only material I could get in the UK in 1995/6).

Allow Me to take the opportunity to remind you of your earlier statement about folks not being competent because they read a book.

Here's where the honesty comes in. Neither of those authors are going to tell you that substances weren't a part of the scene when they were writing. Most public BDSM clubs in this country still had their liquor license, and those that didn't still had the policy of you could bring your own. Poppers were still being used regularly and those were still legal at the time.

quote:

So if you think that to be a concerned for the health and safe wellbeing of other members of ‘The Life’ makes me, as you so elegantly put it, “being full of S£!t” then I thank you for revealing a glimpse of your true nature in such an open media/forum.

Yours,

Matt x.

Here's My true nature. I'm not Don Quixote and I'm not chasing dragons. Certainly not ones that I'm just reading because it's somebody's fantasy on the internet. I happen to give people the credit they deserve for making their own informed choices as adults. Something you are not doing here.

Please do go back and read the posts made by Bita and Immortal Pain. All they did was save Me keystrokes.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to VanillaXIX)

Post #: 39

RE: Relyfe Programming. What do you think? - 7/31/2011 10:03:23 PM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
Sure, when someone is in love they will push their limits to please the one they love but they still have limits they will not go beyond, they will refuse to consent further.

Bollocks. Every self-proclaimed Dom on these boards is constantly wanking on about pushing their sub's limits. Soft and hard. So don't try and tell me that love isn't used to stretch someone beyond limits. It is.

Smart men know that the easiest way to get a woman from point A to point B is by slow degrees. It's only when she looks back that she realises how far she's come.

quote:

And... if love bypasses the rational part of our brains.. then too one could say that sex bypasses many/most?/all? mens brains. Men will do many things to get and keep having sex..

Yes. And thus we have male subs. Quad erat demonstrandum.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 40

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