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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 4:45:56 PM   
Epytropos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
From my perspective, it's perfectly valid to want whatever one wants.  However, it's not valid to set up a false dichotomy that presumes a disconnect between two groups based on one's personal preferences.  As you pointed out, what I want may be rare, but that doesn't mean there's a disconnect between dominant women and submissive men (or women).  It means there's a disconnect between me and the majority of submissive people.  The disconnect is one I have created, not one that is universal.  Rather than looking for an external source for this disconnect, I should be looking at myself. 



Alright I see your point. I thought you were implying that the OP should be reevaluating what she wants to be more in line with what she thinks subs want rather than examining that disconnect as a discrete phenomenon.


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 4:52:32 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

I dunno, maybe you're lucky


If I am, it's one of the few times in my life.  Seriously, I can count on one hand the number of times I'd consider myself "lucky" and still have fingers left over.  I just can't believe my luck is so much better in this area than anyone else's.
 
quote:

About as likely as the pizza delivery guy being lured in by the busty Swedish twins and raped - only most pizza delivery guys won't march around and yell that all the people who order pizza are fakes!

 
Well, no argument there.  I just don't see this sort of thing as indicative of a widespread disconnect between m/F.  YMMV.

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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 4:55:20 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I don't see anything unique to femdomme in this, or to d/s. No two snowflakes are ever the same. There is always a disconnect between what works for one, and what works for another. The only things that are sufficiently common to a large number is not ever going to be enough to make up for the lack of commonalities.

It really is one relationship at a time, and yes, a huge amount of patience is needed if any of us are ever to find someone we have a high amount of compatibility with. If you have expectations out of groups of people, then expect those expectations to be disappointed. That's just how it goes.


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:00:41 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		Disconnect possibly as in about 1 D type female for about 20 s type males, and about 15 of the guys have expectations that are nowhere realistic due to watching BDSM porn and living in a fantasy world.

Most women would define submission different than guys would, for most guys it's a sexual turn on, for a lot of women it's a bit more, the numbers (uneven to start of with) get even more uneven, that could be phrased as a disconnect.

As to the profile, if it's not luck, then please do tell me your secret and how you make them read a profile, your pics are quite sexy and they still read the words, I want the secret sauce, I regularly get mails describing in great detail actions that I have stated are hard limits... Unless it's a conspiracy to send me all sorts of poo pictures, I really don't know what it is but it kinda squids me out.

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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:05:16 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

Come on, we all have noticed that there is a disproportionally larger share of guys who come here and are driven by porn fantasies about what submission is than women willing to indulge such porn fulled fantasies, maybe that's what I would think the disconnect is.


That could surely contribute to it, and if I limited my observations to simply online, then absolutely I would see a strong corrolation. But I observe this offline as well.

Perhaps it's because the common point is a highly sexual activity? I don't know. That's why I've started this thread.

I do appreciate your constructive feedback Lady Constanze. Thank you.


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:10:06 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh


quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

From my perspective, it's perfectly valid to want whatever one wants.  However, it's not valid to set up a false dichotomy that presumes a disconnect between two groups based on one's personal preferences.  As you pointed out, what I want may be rare, but that doesn't mean there's a disconnect between dominant women and submissive men (or women).  It means there's a disconnect between me and the majority of submissive people.  The disconnect is one I have created, not one that is universal. Rather than looking for an external source for this disconnect, I should be looking at myself. 



This is so well stated and exactly how I feel...especially the bolded part...that I really can't add anything that wouldn't be seen as superfluous.


The bolded statement is very interesting indeed. I probably wouldn't think of it in terms that I created a disconnect, but simply that one exists. As I stated in the OP, I'm not looking to blame anyone, but rather analyse a situation.

Everyone looks at themselves in different ways. Often one of the components of my self-analysis is to look at other's perspectives. This can sometimes trigger reflections. It's the principles of why case studies and such work. So essentially, I started this thread to understand something about myself, and hopefully it won't just be useful for me.


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:19:45 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
As to the profile, if it's not luck, then please do tell me your secret and how you make them read a profile, your pics are quite sexy and they still read the words, I want the secret sauce, I regularly get mails describing in great detail actions that I have stated are hard limits... Unless it's a conspiracy to send me all sorts of poo pictures, I really don't know what it is but it kinda squids me out.


See, you're assuming I get unsolicited mail.  This is not the case.  My inbox is almost as dusty as the average male sub's.   
 
Seriously though, here's what I did:  I followed the advice of my friend Anshar.  He wrote a great little essay titled "How To Never Be Stuck In A Bad Relationship Again" and gave some advice that really resonated with me.  I can send you the whole thing if you like, but I'm not going to post it here and bore everyone who isn't interested. 
 
In his essay, Anshar wrote 
quote:

The higher you raise your personal bar, the more unattractive or intimidating the wrong people will find you, because you'll make them question their own worth.
  I followed his advice and posted my lists on my profile.  This statement has held true for me so far.  I get plenty of views, but very little mail.  What I do get tends to be polite.

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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:19:54 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Come on, we all have noticed that there is a disproportionally larger share of guys who come here and are driven by porn fantasies about what submission is than women willing to indulge such porn fulled fantasies, maybe that's what I would think the disconnect is.


That could surely contribute to it, and if I limited my observations to simply online, then absolutely I would see a strong corrolation. But I observe this offline as well.

Perhaps it's because the common point is a highly sexual activity? I don't know. That's why I've started this thread.

I do appreciate your constructive feedback Lady Constanze. Thank you.



The number of people being courageous behind a screen is a lot higher, but a lot of the guys are also going to search for partners offline. I think men are more influenced by porn and what they see, if you give teenage boys a lot of porn, it's how most of them expect women should be. I don't think it's just in BDSM, it's also in vanilla relationships, women might want a relationship the guy just wants to get his rocks off, or as the book says "He's just not that into you", once a guy really wants a woman, he often will stop and change, but since porn fulfillment is only a mouse click away or a trip to an adult video store, a lot of men tend to have slightly screwed up views on what women want. I really don't think it's a problem that's specific to BDSM, more a general problem in communication and that the genders expect different things and don't communicate effectively.

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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:32:00 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
From my perspective, it's perfectly valid to want whatever one wants.  However, it's not valid to set up a false dichotomy that presumes a disconnect between two groups based on one's personal preferences.  As you pointed out, what I want may be rare, but that doesn't mean there's a disconnect between dominant women and submissive men (or women).  It means there's a disconnect between me and the majority of submissive people.  The disconnect is one I have created, not one that is universal.  Rather than looking for an external source for this disconnect, I should be looking at myself. 



Alright I see your point. I thought you were implying that the OP should be reevaluating what she wants to be more in line with what she thinks subs want rather than examining that disconnect as a discrete phenomenon.



Earlier on, Akasha contributed that both have to come at this and make comprimises. And really, making compromises is something I can do quite well. That's not an issue.

But as you point out, I won't be reevaluating what I want. II want what I want and I'll stay single as long as I find it. I'd rather be single for the right reasons than involved with someone for the wrong reasons.

To your comment above, I am absolutely here to analyse that disconnect, learn about it by hearing from other people's accounts.


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:40:35 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Most women would define submission different than guys would, for most guys it's a sexual turn on, for a lot of women it's a bit more, the numbers (uneven to start of with) get even more uneven, that could be phrased as a disconnect.


This. This is clerly part of the problem. And when I say this, I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm simly saying they are very different and it often, not always, creates a disconnect, at least in my experience and in experiences related to me by certain domme friends.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Come on, we all have noticed that there is a disproportionally larger share of guys who come here and are driven by porn fantasies about what submission is than women willing to indulge such porn fulled fantasies, maybe that's what I would think the disconnect is.


That could surely contribute to it, and if I limited my observations to simply online, then absolutely I would see a strong corrolation. But I observe this offline as well.

Perhaps it's because the common point is a highly sexual activity? I don't know. That's why I've started this thread.

I do appreciate your constructive feedback Lady Constanze. Thank you.



The number of people being courageous behind a screen is a lot higher, but a lot of the guys are also going to search for partners offline. I think men are more influenced by porn and what they see, if you give teenage boys a lot of porn, it's how most of them expect women should be. I don't think it's just in BDSM, it's also in vanilla relationships, women might want a relationship the guy just wants to get his rocks off, or as the book says "He's just not that into you", once a guy really wants a woman, he often will stop and change, but since porn fulfillment is only a mouse click away or a trip to an adult video store, a lot of men tend to have slightly screwed up views on what women want. I really don't think it's a problem that's specific to BDSM, more a general problem in communication and that the genders expect different things and don't communicate effectively.


Absolutely this exists outside BDSM. The thing is, when I'm trying to date outside this realm, though I might be viewed as a sexual object, the men I meet tend to be much more subtle, respectful and *my* pace is much more respected. However, the overwhelming majority of the men I meet within BDSM circles, tend to come at me with submissive guns a blazing! I've asked some of them if they could see themselves approaching a non-kink woman that way and they have admitted they more than likely wouldn't.  Goes back to what I resonded to Akasha... perhaps we because we take charge sexually, there is perhaps a supposition that we are sexually aggressive and open to sex right away? This is just a theory...

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 8/6/2011 5:41:03 PM >

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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:43:41 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Status: offline 		Oh my, how ironic that this thread got revisited today.... it definitely contributes to the disconnect.

That said, I do want to add that in my experience, perhaps not everyones, this is not limited to simply online interaction.


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:47:53 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

There really has been but a small, nay miniscule, handful of men who fit my paradigm of what I considered to be truly submissive, the way I like it.

It's not gender specific. I feel the same way. Very few women in my time so far on this earth fit what I would call submissive.

It is what it is. I don't bother analyzing it anymore. I just keep an eye out for what I want in a relationship.


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 5:52:38 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

There really has been but a small, nay miniscule, handful of men who fit my paradigm of what I considered to be truly submissive, the way I like it.

It's not gender specific. I feel the same way. Very few women in my time so far on this earth fit what I would call submissive.

It is what it is. I don't bother analyzing it anymore. I just keep an eye out for what I want in a relationship.



Hi Icarys - nice to see a post from you. I tend not to analyse either, except for every once in a while, I get a little analytical. :-)

I have been keeping an eye out.... and I'm not too worried. I am however concerned about the level of disconnect, almost like I don't really belong in this realm...


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 7:24:52 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

I am however concerned about the level of disconnect, almost like I don't really belong in this realm...


Not that you are, I wouldn't allow anyone to make me feel like I don't belong and surely many have tried that. I decide where I belong.

I get some of what your saying though.. It makes you wonder even if it's a small bit.. Not something that shakes your sense of self, just enough of a thought to make you pay attention. To simply question what it is you think you see.

Good to see you posting again as well.


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 7:41:59 PM   
cloudboy


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The flexible, versatile person who likes people has a way of making things work. Flexibility bridges disconnects.


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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 8:13:42 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

I am however concerned about the level of disconnect, almost like I don't really belong in this realm...


Not that you are, I wouldn't allow anyone to make me feel like I don't belong and surely many have tried that. I decide where I belong.


Do I look like the kind of woman that allows people to decide things for me? ;-)

quote:

I get some of what your saying though.. It makes you wonder even if it's a small bit.. Not something that shakes your sense of self, just enough of a thought to make you pay attention. To simply question what it is you think you see.


You get it. Thanks for this.

quote:

Good to see you posting again as well.


:-)




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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 9:13:47 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline 		Frankly, I have not read any other posts ... so I am working from a clean slate.

First off, if You are a true Domme, You do not allow a submissive to define "submission to You"

Rather, You define and train the submissive!

The submissive, should be an open slate, upon which You draw Your desires! The submissive should grow and adapt to You!

Training the submissive is very important! You need to dive deeply into them, and draw out the best of them! Taylor them to Your desires ... bend them to Your will; and have them thank You ... all the way!

Dang ... it is too bad You are so far away ... otherwise, i would let You practice!

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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 10:09:50 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In another post today, I wrote the following:

quote:

There is the question of what do these people consider submission. One of the things I've come to realise is that what I consider to be submission from a man is very different than what most men who want to offer me submission view it.


There really has been but a small, nay miniscule, handful of men who fit my paradigm of what I considered to be truly submissive, the way I like it. There seems to be a HUGE disconnect between what I want and what most of the men who offer submission want. And I'm not just talking online, but in person as well.

The purpose of this post is not to bitch about submissive men. It's to try and get an understanding of how wide this disconnect actually is and what might be the major differences in perspectives. I know we've tackled this subject before in this forum under different angles but I figured perhaps phrasing the issue another way might somehow elicit new perspectives on the issue.

Or perhaps, if you don't find there is a disconnect, your perspective would be very valuable as well in telling us how you feel the connection. works for you.



Welcome back, Lady A.
For ME, the "disconnect" is so WIDE, that when I am approached or chatting with the majority of men that label themselves "submissives/or even slaves", we might as well be on different planets.

If I were a service Top, a professional Dominant, or willing to "cater" to men's fantasies, it would be a very different story.
It is more than a "disconnect" as far as I am concerned, normally not only are we NOT on the same page,we are not even in the same book.

This is a great topic.

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/6/2011 10:20:58 PM >

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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/6/2011 10:46:30 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In another post today, I wrote the following:

quote:

There is the question of what do these people consider submission. One of the things I've come to realise is that what I consider to be submission from a man is very different than what most men who want to offer me submission view it.


There really has been but a small, nay miniscule, handful of men who fit my paradigm of what I considered to be truly submissive, the way I like it. There seems to be a HUGE disconnect between what I want and what most of the men who offer submission want. And I'm not just talking online, but in person as well.

The purpose of this post is not to bitch about submissive men. It's to try and get an understanding of how wide this disconnect actually is and what might be the major differences in perspectives. I know we've tackled this subject before in this forum under different angles but I figured perhaps phrasing the issue another way might somehow elicit new perspectives on the issue.

Or perhaps, if you don't find there is a disconnect, your perspective would be very valuable as well in telling us how you feel the connection. works for you.



You admit that there is a "miniscule, handful" of men who fit what you desire. That's the case for a lot of people, regardless of whether they are a d-type or an s-type, male or female. Granted, females tend to get a lot more fantasy porn type of emails and approaches, but that is bound to happen.

Think of all the people here who have spent years looking for their "one." Think of all the people who post worrying they won't ever find their "one." Everyone's advice is always, "be patient, eventually you will find what you are looking for."

It sounds like you are feeling some of that frustration now. Are your expectations too high? I don't know, and it really doesn't matter. If your expectations are very high, then I'm sure there is someone, somewhere who fits what you want. There is also the possibility that at some point, you will find someone who doesn't meet all of your expectations, but is such an exceptional person, that you will re-evaluate what you want and perhaps change your expectations. I saw that happen with one of my best friends. The man she eventually married was NOTHING like the man she thought she wanted to marry, but he is, she realized, perfect for her.

So yes, there is a very wide disconnect between you and the men who contact or approach you. There is also a wide disconnect between others and the men who approach them. Both you and the others will eventually, if patient, find what you are looking for.

Your perspective on dominance and submission may be totally different from most others. Same thing goes for a great many others here. It is impossible to theorize whether or not the disconnect is a flaw of yours, or the men you are meeting. It is, however, quite likely, that for whatever reason, there is something about you or your profile (and others with this problem) that calls out to them. In any disconnect, the problem never lies with one person, but with both people's ability to communicate their wants/desires to each other.

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RE: How wide is the disconnect? - 8/7/2011 8:23:57 AM   
LadyAngelika


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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

Frankly, I have not read any other posts ... so I am working from a clean slate.

First off, if You are a true Domme, You do not allow a submissive to define "submission to You"

Rather, You define and train the submissive!

The submissive, should be an open slate, upon which You draw Your desires! The submissive should grow and adapt to You!

Training the submissive is very important! You need to dive deeply into them, and draw out the best of them! Taylor them to Your desires ... bend them to Your will; and have them thank You ... all the way!

Dang ... it is too bad You are so far away ... otherwise, i would let You practice!


Yeah, see that's not really sustainable on the long term. I'm not looking for a guy to see every other Saturday or just a play partner. I'm looking for a life partner. Relationships can't truly be healthy when one person is calling all the shots and setting all the rules.

It's better when I start off with someone who has a mind set that is similar to mine, who understands me, what I want, and wants very similar things. Otherwise, I'm headed for a whole lot of drama that I have no time for.


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