RE: Blackbird with broken wing

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DavidLee44UK -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/7/2011 3:01:24 PM)
lol wind im coming from the other side i guess having seen in programs like lemur diary lemurs being attacked cause they smelt of people not lemur orang a tang diary teaches orang u tangs to be orang-outangs before releasing them and elephant diary when they released elephants back into wild they came back at night to fed by humans im not saying its right or wrong what happens if that bird survives and wasnt supossed to its gonna upset the balance and poss end up as food for a fox

LadyConstanze -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/7/2011 3:06:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Steven00140 http://www.foreign-britishbirds.info/page2.html http://www.british-birds-in-aviculture.info/BB-Clubs.html http://www.britishbirdcouncil.com/affiliated_societies.htm None to sure if this will help at all, They are the sites of British Bird Keepers and Breeders. But as long as the bird is feeding and drinking, kept out of foul weather and in a quiet place, you cannot do any harm. Regards Steven Thanks, googled for it, but the problem is that most of them are not nearby, the nearest one is roughly 2 hours away one way and they are quite stretched without the resources to care for a blackbird, privately funded and all that. I'm a bit surprised how it might have broken the wing though, as I carried her home in a white sweater and there wasn't any blood on the sweater (though quite a bit of bird poo), if it was attacked by a predator, there whould have been blood and it it had internal injuries the bird wouldn't be eating like a maniac. I'm fine with paying for the vet, the blackbird didn't pick to be injured and found by me (well the dogs actually but me by proxy) but since it happened, it's kind of an obligation to care for it. You'd have to be a callus person to walk away from that without caring.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/7/2011 3:17:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavidLee44UK lol wind im coming from the other side i guess having seen in programs like lemur diary lemurs being attacked cause they smelt of people not lemur orang a tang diary teaches orang u tangs to be orang-outangs before releasing them and elephant diary when they released elephants back into wild they came back at night to fed by humans im not saying its right or wrong what happens if that bird survives and wasnt supossed to its gonna upset the balance and poss end up as food for a fox Well, a lot of people survive on meds who aren't meant to survive and they upset the balance, again for the ones too stupid to read, I am not going to leave it out for the fox, I make sure it's having a good place to stay, compare it to "sheltered accommodation for handy-capped people who can't exist on their own" just less drain on the social system because I'm footing the bill. Blackie won't need a nurse, a social worker or shrinks, even if she is not going to be able to recover she is not going to upset the balance. I said that all before but apparently you couldn't quite digest the information...

windchymes -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/7/2011 4:39:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavidLee44UK what happens if that bird survives and wasnt supossed to its gonna upset the balance and poss end up as food for a fox So you're saying this bird has a preordained destiny and now the balance of the food chain is upset and the planet is doomed. Nice goin', LC [;)]

LadyConstanze -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/7/2011 4:43:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: windchymes quote: ORIGINAL: DavidLee44UK what happens if that bird survives and wasnt supossed to its gonna upset the balance and poss end up as food for a fox So you're saying this bird has a preordained destiny and now the balance of the food chain is upset and the planet is doomed. Nice goin', LC [;)] I know, I am responsible for the downfall of the planet now, does that also make me responsible for all the mental cases roaming the planet?

LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/7/2011 7:06:18 PM)
I have a little experience with wild birds. It sounds as though the bird's going to do just fine & it's good that you can get it to a vet for proper setting. I knew a guy one time who set a sea gull's broken wing with popsicle sticks & the bird followed him around everywhere til it healed & then it flew off. Good job bringing it in. It should do just fine & it probably won't domesticate in the short time it would need to be with you. As soon as it can fly again, it will take off.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/7/2011 8:46:36 PM)
I love to read about people doing things like this. I had a little frog jump on me about 2 weeks ago when I was sitting on the couch watching Netflix. Startled the hell out of me. He hopped off under the couch. I put a shallow bowl of water out and he hopped into it a while later. Missed my chance, though; he was waaay faster than me. He hopped on me once again as I was semi-dozing. Scared the hell out of me again. Got him this time, though. Threw a towel over him, then carefully picked him up and took him out back to my little pond. Next day, I was sitting at the end of my couch reading some on-line stuff on my monitor, which sits on a file cabinet which doubles as an end table, when I saw a little motion out of the corner of my eye. Nope, wasn't Hoppy, it was a little Gecko, maybe 5 inches long. Here we go again. It's because I have a fan which I use to prop open a screen door with because the screen is at the top of the door. Caught him with a sieve which I slowly lowerd over him so I wouldn't hurt him. Well, anyway, sounds like you have a very fine heart, LC.

domiguy -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/7/2011 8:49:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven Well good luck with it, and please let us know how it turns out. [:)] I'm sure the bird is saying thank you right now! Can't say I am particularly happy about it, but just leaving the bird there to die slowly or be killed just wasn't an option. I know nature is cruel and all that, but there's a difference if you run into a wounded animal and you can help or if it's abstract "nature", I'm actually forcing myself to not look into the room all the time and to fuss, as it would possibly only scare her. The odd thing is, I really don't feel any great affinity to birds but since I found her, I feel responsible and she's not just "a bird" anymore but the proverbial bird with the broken wing I have to care for. Mind you I'm amazed at the amount of food birds can eat, maybe this one is hollow? a better question is why wasn't it an option? Do you really believe you can help and what makes you think you are qualified or that the bird is even better off under your care? Return the bird from where you found it and let the bird go. Put your resources where it can do some good. Help out by contributing to the protection of their habitat or donate money to the underfunded wildlife rescue operation. I actually feel a little concern for you that you equate the life of a black bird to that of a cat or a dog. One is a pet dependent upon humans and the other is a black bird that die all the time in the wild without anyone noticing. While you feel responsible for the bird it is totally misplaced. In the states it is actually illegal to have a wild bird in your possession without a license. "You'd have to be a callus person to walk away from that without caring." Actually it has nothing to do with being "callous" by walking away. It is called allowing nature take it's course. Which was the right thing to do in this case. It means caring enough about the environment to let things transpire in it's natural order. Wild birds are not dogs or cats. They are meant to live in the wild and die there. when the bird dies you are probably going to throw it away. This is not what would have happened. I have seen a falcon take a bird right out of the sky. I was amazed. No feeling of pity for the prey or disgust for the predator, just awe and amazement. Though your intentions are admirable to a point they are completely misguided. If the wing is actually broken, from what I have read it will probably never fly. Great life for a bird. I grew up learning about the outdoors and still spend a great time there whenever I get the chance. You learn to respect nature and to care enough to let it transpire on it's own. A hard lesson that you might want to learn.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 4:51:59 AM)
I think you can save your preaching because it's not quite in tune with reality is it? If we would let nature take its course, we wouldn't have domestic cats and dogs, we wouldn't administer medication to people, we wouldn't do surgeries and all that, we would just let nature take its course. I'm aware that birds die in the wild, I just happened to have found a bird that needed help, so instead of letting it die slowly and painfully, I took it home, fed it and brought it to a vet this morning who specializes in birds. He set the wing and bandaged her up, he didn't think I was messing with nature and told me in the wild it would have died, but there is a great chance that the wing will heal without problems, but since the bird is a very young blackbird there's also a chance that it will become quite used to humans and it already begs for food if I go into the room I cleared for the bird (and covered with newspaper as they tend to poo everywhere), so we discussed the options and he's going to check around, if he finds a place where she can live in a big volliere with others of her kind as I don't want to keep her as a single bird in a cage. What happened was that I found a wounded animal and I tried to help, apparently I succeeded, big fucking deal, not upsetting the balance of nature, just not callused enough to walk away and say "Oh fuck it, let it die slowly, blame it on nature to hide the fact that I can't be arsed to do something about it" - my choice, also my choice how I spend my money and for what, unless you decide to pay my mortgage and put strings on it, but then it would be up to me to decide if I want to take it. I happen to interfere with nature regularly, by making sure my cats and dogs are vaccinated, I also donate blood, another interference with nature, I'm using contraceptives, another horrible interference with nature, I'm sure I'm going to hell for upsetting the natural balance as I do... I'm sure you don't buy in supermarkets, grow your own veg and hunt your own meat with your own hands as nature intended, don't use a car or a computer (you possibly connect with mindpower) as this would all go against nature, and in case you have an injury you just let take nature its course instead of seeing a doctor and dying from an appendicitis is the way nature intended it - since you obviously are so much better than I am, being all natural, you have every right to chastise me for not letting a bird die slowly and painfully in the wild, after all that is a horrible crime and oh so wrong, beware that we have feelings like pity for animals...

domiguy -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 7:10:07 AM)
Using contraceptives is the smartest thing you could do outside of getting a complete hysterectomy. Thank you for saving the planet and not passing on your dna to future generations.

windchymes -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 8:49:18 AM)
There's a big difference between a wild animal with a minor injury that can be helped with a few days of R&R and one mangled and on death's doorstep. Lady C has the intelligence and compassion to know the difference. Thinking out of the doomsday box for a minute......this female bird will probably return to the wild and lay eggs and put a lot more dinner prospects out there for the food chain, as opposed to the one meal she alone would have provided.

Aswad -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 8:50:11 AM)
Domi, are you joking or being obtuse here? The nature of human experience is immediacy. Without the qualities revealed precisely in the impulse to help someone in our immediate surroundings, there is no sensible foundation for the pursuit of coordinated aid efforts directed at larger numbers over a wider area. If one is not moved by empathy in the here and now, then the abstract is about surface appearances, not an extension of the sense of empathy (it must exist to be extended). This suggested divorcement of purpose renders the institution temporarily functional, but ultimately hollow, a legacy that will only live on as a matter of inertia, not from a genuine sentiment on the human level. When I spend a few hours trying to help a lost kitten find its way back home, that's not because it's the most cost effective way to help cats in my area, but rather because it is a human imperative among people with empathy to aid those in need around us when we can. Should someone leave a baby on your doorstep, you could of course close the door, shrug, and make a deposit to the CPS, but really, there's no point in even having the CPS if you don't care to take that baby to the hospital or wherever, just meaningless motions to go through in order that society not have a blemish marring its status and standing. At a bare minimum, the act of kindness on LC's part serves to speak to her character, whether anyone hears or not. There's a pretty long list of people who have realized that the measure of a person lies in how they treat those weaker than themselves when there is no threat of reprisals, and how humans treat animals in their immediate vincinity is the classic example. Of course, behavior on the Internet is closely related. Health, al-Aswad.

windchymes -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 8:52:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Using contraceptives is the smartest thing you could do outside of getting a complete hysterectomy. Thank you for saving the planet and not passing on your dna to future generations. And you are just a miserable human being, trying to drag everyone else down with you. Just shut the fuck up already. Seriously.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 9:03:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Using contraceptives is the smartest thing you could do outside of getting a complete hysterectomy. Thank you for saving the planet and not passing on your dna to future generations. I hope you do the same, just saying, we really don't need more in the shallow end of the gene pool! And don't see a doctor, you'd upset the delicate balance of nature...

Missokyst -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 9:04:47 AM)
My grandma used to take in wounded animals all the time. Birds, lizards, turtles, cats, what ever needed care, and as far as I can determine no global repercussions. I think you should do what feels right in regards to caring for, saving, or releasing to the elements. I know that my grandma had remarkable abilities with animals. She had a large open aviary in the backyard for birds that needed care or other wild birds who just wanted to come in and hang out. They had ample room to exit when ever they wished, and did so, even though they often returned to visit her yard. She reminded me of snow white because animals didn't fly or scurrie away when she was near. Wild birds would perch on her fingers, and lizards would sit beside her on a warm rock in the garden. As I see it there is nothing wrong with caring for a wounded bird, but having someone set the wing might be best for your wild thing so it might return to its environment over time. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze What happened was that I found a wounded animal and I tried to help, apparently I succeeded, big fucking deal, not upsetting the balance of nature,

domiguy -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 9:25:34 AM)
please stop confusing domesticated animals with wild ones it is beneath you. Who is to say the bird wouldn't have survived or made a nice meal for something else? Granted, it's a small piece in the puzzle, but nature does have a plan and it is best whenever possible to let it run it's course. The OP would have never ever considered picking up a pigeon or some less desirable bird, because it isn't worthy of saving. There is a hypocrisy that lies in her motives. How we treat those weaker than ourselves is definitely a measure of humanity. However, respecting nature is just as much of a noble cause. Maybe the bird was wounded by a predator and the OP cheated it out of well a deserved meal. There could be consequences to that, as well. we meddle into nature that have vast and dire consequences, we routinely remove natural flora and habitat that affects wildlife around the globe. It's just one fucking bird, I understand that. People pick wildflowers, after all, it's just one fucking flower, right? There are so many things that we can do to show compassion to those that are "weaker" than ourselves. trying to restore habitat, contributing to local animal shelters, joining The Sierra Club, working at a soup kitchen. I have long been enthralled by the outdoors and I respect nature. One of the the hardest thing to learn is to respect it enough to not interfere and let it run it's course. The OP didn't exactly give a lot of information about where she was and what was the environment where she found the bird. That would play a small part in my decision, whether to interfere or not. I have no idea what kind of a blackbird is a song bird, to begin with. I can't think of any in this country right off the top of my head. I am guessing it is a very common bird and most likely not at all endangered and that is why the animal shelter would not lift a finger to help out. song birds are on the decline in the Uk as well as most populated areas. Our focus should be on efforts that have a lasting result and leaving alone that which might make us "feel" better but in the long run provides little benefit. The serenity prayer is not just for recovering addicts. I hope this makes people understand my position a little better.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 9:27:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst As I see it there is nothing wrong with caring for a wounded bird, but having someone set the wing might be best for your wild thing so it might return to its environment over time. Already done, vet who specializes in birds did it this morning and said in most cases they heal completely, we were wondering a bit since the bird doesn't seem to be afraid of humans at all, it's actually trying to follow me around and also hops after the dogs, I tried to keep them out of the room but they decided they have a new pack member that needs to be protected. Might grab a camera later and take a pic, Ms Blackie looks a bit like she's wearing a big white fishnet body stocking, vet said it's the best way to immobilize the wing until it heels up and we'll be having a house guest for 3 to 4 weeks, chances are she heels up quicker as bird bones apparently mend very fast. Oh and she does prefer wet dog food over wet cat food, bought some wild bird food earlier and she's a bit of a glutton.

windchymes -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 10:08:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy The OP would have never ever considered picking up a pigeon or some less desirable bird, because it isn't worthy of saving. There is a hypocrisy that lies in her motives. You're dead wrong here. I've had many private conversations with LadyC on the other side, and there is no doubt in my mind that she would pick up any wounded creature, not just the pretty ones that sing. How we treat those weaker than ourselves is definitely a measure of humanity. So is how we treat those that we secretly know are stronger than ourselves. However, respecting nature is just as much of a noble cause. Maybe the bird was wounded by a predator and the OP cheated it out of well a deserved meal. There could be consequences to that, as well. Like that never happens in nature itself. we meddle into nature that have vast and dire consequences, we routinely remove natural flora and habitat that affects wildlife around the globe. This I'll agree on with you, but then those with the "land must be developed" philosophies will swoop in for their series of lectures about progress. . You could have found answers to what you didn't know about the OP's situation by asking her directly instead of saying the ugly things you said to her. You tell people to go out and perform humanitarian acts, but yet you come in here and treat people like shit on your shoes. People whose situations and motives you know nothing about, that you could easily have inquired into. You're the biggest hypocrite of all.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 10:51:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy please stop confusing domesticated animals with wild ones it is beneath you. Who is to say the bird wouldn't have survived or made a nice meal for something else? Granted, it's a small piece in the puzzle, but nature does have a plan and it is best whenever possible to let it run it's course. The OP would have never ever considered picking up a pigeon or some less desirable bird, because it isn't worthy of saving. There is a hypocrisy that lies in her motives. Funny how you know that, because I would - and a bit of faulty logic here too, you claim a blackbird isn't endangered... How we treat those weaker than ourselves is definitely a measure of humanity. However, respecting nature is just as much of a noble cause. Maybe the bird was wounded by a predator and the OP cheated it out of well a deserved meal. There could be consequences to that, as well.I'm prepared to deal with the karma of a house cat who didn't get a chance to torture the bird to death and then leaving most likely without eating it, can't say I lose much sleep about that. Picking up an injured animal is not disrespecting nature we meddle into nature that have vast and dire consequences, we routinely remove natural flora and habitat that affects wildlife around the globe. It's just one fucking bird, I understand that. People pick wildflowers, after all, it's just one fucking flower, right? There are so many things that we can do to show compassion to those that are "weaker" than ourselves. trying to restore habitat, contributing to local animal shelters, joining The Sierra Club, working at a soup kitchen. I do love how you seem to be perfectly informed what I do and who I donate money to and which charities I actively support - you must be psychic I have long been enthralled by the outdoors and I respect nature. One of the the hardest thing to learn is to respect it enough to not interfere and let it run it's course. The OP didn't exactly give a lot of information about where she was and what was the environment where she found the bird. That would play a small part in my decision, whether to interfere or not. I have no idea what kind of a blackbird is a song bird, to begin with. I can't think of any in this country right off the top of my head. I am guessing it is a very common bird and most likely not at all endangered and that is why the animal shelter would not lift a finger to help out. song birds are on the decline in the Uk as well as most populated areas. Our focus should be on efforts that have a lasting result and leaving alone that which might make us "feel" better but in the long run provides little benefit. The serenity prayer is not just for recovering addicts. I hope this makes people understand my position a little better. I picked up a wounded bird, it happened to be a blackbird, and no, blackbirds are not on the decline, the nearest animal shelter dealing with wild life birds is about 2 hours away, privately funded and told us they do not have the resources but gave helpful hints, the way they explained it was that the bird would take up time with some of their volunteers and if it is remotely possible, could I care for it as they are stretched as it is. Oh dear, I didn't give information? I thought I did point out that I found it in a field and since you pulled up my profile you were perfectly aware that I am in the UK... Nice try but no dice! Since I stumbled on the bird, it was in a way my responsibility, you have no idea if I donate to wildlife funds or not, you try to portrait yourself as a nature lover, yet you would happily let a bird die slowly and walk away with the excuse of nature. Now shouldn't you hope that others don't have the same idea, because in case you have an accident and need blood, why should possibly my blood donation go to a 50 year old guy, why shouldn't in that case nature take the normal course and you die, because you're not an endangered species and I'd rather have it that a child gets it... I'm not going out and try to convince foxes to become vegetarians, but if I see an animal that is in pain, I react, it's what humans do, if you don't then I wonder what kind of a dom you make if you're lacking empathy, if I would be a sub, I'd stay away from such a person because I'd be worried about the lack of empathy. But that's my personal take on it.

Steven00140 -> RE: Blackbird with broken wing (8/8/2011 11:02:51 AM)
Then perhaps the rest of us could all write a letter of complaint to Mother Nature about you not being born a eunuch!

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