RE: There was a plane!

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Real0ne -> RE: There was a plane! (8/20/2011 5:04:37 PM)
This one too! http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/a-response-to-chip-b... [image]http://www.projectcensored.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/censorship1-300x224.gif[/image] Response to Chip Berlet’s “Toxic to Democracy: Conspiracy Theories, Demonization, and Scapegoating” By Peter Phillips and Mickey Huff Media Freedom Foundation/Project Censored In his recent essay “Toxic to Democracy,” Political Research Associates (PRA) Senior Analyst Chip Berlet uses the very same methods of demonization by association that he so strongly opposes. Berlet convolutes historical context, ideological differences, and progressives vis-à-vis extreme conservative/neo-con/libertarians in a diatribe of meaninglessness. Berlet lumps valid academic research on State Crimes Against Democracy (SCADs) in with anti-Semitic jingoism and far right wing extremism. He suggests that any research that even implies some sort of conspiracy is dangerous and suspect, seemingly forgetting a long list of proven US and other government conspiracies (SCADs) including: Operation Mockingbird, COINTELPRO, Gulf of Tonkin “Incident,” October Surprise, CIA-Contra Dark Alliance, Iran-Contra, WMDs and Iraq Invasion, and the overthrow of governments in Iran, Guatemala, Haiti, Chile, Greece, Indonesia, Panama, and many others. Outrageously, Berlet categorizes progressive intellectuals such as Peter Dale Scott, Michael Parenti, David Ray Griffin, Michel Chossudovsky, and by innuendo the two of us, as dangerous conspiracists. He uses a straw person technique by positing former LaRouche analyst Webster Tarpley, and the Church of God Evangelistic Association founder David J. Smith in the same category as the progressive intellectuals listed above. At the end of his essay, Berlet attempts to distinguish between people who do power structure research such as G. William Domhoff—who served on Peter Phillips’ dissertation committee regarding the Bohemian Grove in 1994— along with Holly Sklar, former PRA associate and author of a study on the Trilateral Commission compared to those who see elite networks as potential places of planning for self serving advantages. Of course, elites conspire to maximize their power and profits whenever possible. Corporate boardrooms are rife with such activity and the resulting actions/PR manipulations—as recently evidenced by British Petroleum. That does not mean one should simply dismiss researching the lies and manipulations of the powerful because it might imply a conspiracy, especially when the lies fail to explain how a 47-story steel frame building (WTC Building 7) collapsed in its own footprint at freefall speed on September 11, 2001, or how a scientific, peer-reviewed, academic journal discovered unreacted nano-thermite in the dust from the World Trade Centers (The Open Chemical Physics Journal). While we have solid respect for the long tradition of research into extreme right wing and racist organizations for which PRA is well known, we are most dismayed by Chip Berlet’s reactionary dismissal of academic research into conspiracies/State Crimes Against Democracy by long time progressive intellectuals. Peter Phillips is a Professor of Sociology at Sonoma State University and President of Media Freedom Foundation/Project Censored Mickey Huff is an Associate Professor of History at Diablo Valley College and Director of Project Censored/Media Freedom Foundation See Berlet’s essay “Toxic to Democracy” at http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/toxic2democracy/

Rule -> RE: There was a plane! (8/20/2011 5:57:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Rule, You do know that plane debris was found of all 4 planes, right? Yep, but that is not evidence that any planes were there. It merely is evidence that plane debris was there. Some of that plane debris I could transport there in my trouser pockets. For other debris I would require a larger trouser - but that also is doable. In some cases I know exactly who put the debris there; in one other case I am pretty sure who put some of the debris there. And how.

Real0ne -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 7:20:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth I know Anax that's why I read his (?) posts for the entertainment value not for the facts. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne hey its a matter of record! the tractators (hired by the lybians) were busted for sucking it under and disturbing the peace in china. this is the official dig photo; [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/flt93engine.jpg[/image] What you really have here is a stab at how fucking corrupt the courts are and how easily it is for the gubafia to get away with anything. They do not hesitate to murder presidents they certainly could give a fuck about you or I. now there it some thing very important for you to keep in mind about out little exchange here. You took one look at that picture and said WTF as seen in you post. I totally agree with you. Firstly jet engines do not burrow underground. That would require speed far faster than a bullet. Finally the second you use your own brain you will become a conspiracy theorist in the eyes of the gubafia. Its the first rule of being an owned slave; "thou shalt not use thine brain". (couple kick ass movies on this are "return of the planet of the apes 2011, and idiocracy") pay particular attention to the part with the Dildozer* LOL You may not be aware but you stepped over that line in this thread. You used your brain. quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth Okay you've posted a pic, yay you! Thing is there is nothing there that proves the engine (assuming it's an airplane engine) is from one of the planes from 9/11. I can't quite decide whether you are completely delusional or just painfully naive....yeah completely delusional sounds good. For that you must be punished!! Now Ron and the spammer did the same but I wont get into that LOL Anytime you disagree with anything the gubafia did regarding 911 or any other SCAD you inherit the label conspiracy theorist. The picture of that engine can be found on literally every debunker site out here as an explanation for flt 93. It is claimed by the gubafia to be a picture of an engine from flt 93, and it is claimed by the gubafia to have burrowed into the ground. That is why the convenient addition of earth moving equipment. The truly sick fucking part of it is that photo is a bona fide exhibit submitted to the court in the mousoui case. They used that picture in court, you can see the government exhibit stamp and the exhibit number on the bottom in yellow/orange. Now you sinned the greatest sin, you used your brain and took one look at that and CORRECTLY said "there is nothing there that proves the engine (assuming it's an airplane engine) is from one of the planes from 9/11". Those labelled with being a "conspiracy theorist" agree with you. That was blatantly obvious to you. Yet it was used in court against mousaui. The number on the bottom of the picture matches the official record as you can see. The gubafia has labelled anyone who thinks a "conspiracy theorist", "sovereign citizen", "christian fundie" etc. quote: United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui Criminal No. 01-455-A Prosecution Trial Exhibits Phase 1 P200060 Photograph of an airplane part found in the crater at the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where Flight 93 crashed http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution.html Here is another: [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/P200003.jpg[/image] This shit just goes on and on adnauseum. That was the pic used in court, here is the reality: [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/holethatwasntthere.jpg[/image] That is what gubafias do. Think about that when you see these people pejoratively label someone a "conspiracy theorist". You may be one too!

angelikaJ -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 8:07:12 AM)
Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site. The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined. The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 8:29:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site. The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined. The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south. now this I believe. It's a bit too much to expect me to believe RO's version - that the engine somehow managed to burrow its way all the way to China. It does however make sense that the engine of a plane going at top speed was deeply buried in the ground and had to be dug out.

Rule -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 9:03:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site. One engine does not an airplane make. A buried engine merely is evidence that a buried engine was present at that location. It does not constitute evidence that a plane impacted the ground. Anyone ever see that detective Colombo movie with the murdering magician? (Now You See Him (2/29/76)) Magician: "Think of a number". Janitor: "I think of number four." Magician: "Lift up the phone". Janitor finds note under the phone with '4' written on it. Perhaps I ought to write a book titled: "Everything I know I learned from watching Colombo movies". quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined. So it was not pristine ground? How very convenient... Let's see. Let us assume that the USA has a territorial area of one billion square kilometers. That makes one billion million square meters. Let us assume that the tampered area is the only tampered with area in the whole of the USA and that measures twenty thousand square metres. The chance that an airplane will impact this tampered area, supposing it does impact anywhere in the USA, thus is 20 000 / 1 billion millions = 20 / 1 000 billions = 1 in fifty billion. Mmm... quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south. Now pray explain the discrepancy. Why did not the second engine also bury itself into the earth? How did it get a whopping three hundred yards removed from the first engine? Was the wing span between them that large? Did it un-dig itself and conveniently on its two or twelve little legs stumble on another three hundred yards before deciding to die from heart-ache in that basin? Some engines are good boys; others are embarrassments. [sm=rofl.gif]

Real0ne -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 9:04:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site. The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined. The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south. ~sigh so were these, no buried engine [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/ATR-72-212.jpg[/image] [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/w20010704.jpg[/image] be better off pretending you have me on ignore so you can post that stuff and have plausible deniability like jlf. lol

Real0ne -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 9:09:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule A buried engine merely is evidence that a buried engine was present at that location. It does not constitute evidence that a plane impacted the ground. Some engines are good boys; others are embarrassments. [sm=rofl.gif] that is the paramount argument, where the proverbial bear shits in the buckwheat after all. Oh and btw there are pictures of that 30 ft yellow trailer out here that was hidden behind the bushes at the pentagon when the pole pics were taken too. If it were not such a tragedy against humanity it would make a great comedy

Real0ne -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 10:18:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site. The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined. The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south. then you have the added problem of the sectional density of an engine compared to a bullet, in which the sectional density of a bullet is many many times that of an engine rotor and a 300 grain bullet at 2000+ ft/sec will only go in a little over a foot+ in sand. Translated that means that the part of the rotor shown even if it hit perpendicular to the earth would be laying on top of the ground and the dirt beneath it blown to the side like a comet strike. I digress

angelikaJ -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 12:27:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Yes, one engine was found buried beneath the earth at the crash site. The plane was traveling at over 500 mph (750 feet per second+) and the land it impacted was not "normal" ground. It had been previously stripmined. The fan for the other engine was found in a catchment basin, just over 300 yards south. ~sigh so were these, no buried engine [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/ATR-72-212.jpg[/image] [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/w20010704.jpg[/image] be better off pretending you have me on ignore so you can post that stuff and have plausible deniability like jlf. lol I don't know if the photos you are showing are of crashes on a site that had been previously stripmined as you did not say when and what crashes they are. Most planes that crash attempt emergency landing procedures. This one varied widely from that. This one hit at a 40 degree, nose down inverted altitude at a speed of 563 mph (which is actually over 870 fps). It appears my common sense is distubing you. If my posts bother you, you are free to hide me.

Rule -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 1:11:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ This one hit at a 40 degree, nose down inverted altitude at a speed of 563 mph (which is actually over 870 fps). Prove it! Show us the plane! Preferably sticking nose first in the tampered ground with its tail pointing up into the air. Where is the plane? Where is the plane? Where is your evi-den-ce? You do not have any. [sm=pigsfly.gif][sm=alien.gif][sm=iwin.gif]

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 1:13:56 PM)
quote: You do not have any. What a coincidence neither do you. Sure you have lots of pictures but none of them show actual proof.

Rule -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 1:19:44 PM)
Of course I do not have evidence that a plane crashed there. That is because no plane ever crashed there. Duh!

Rule -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 1:22:27 PM)
Are you certain that you are a natural slave? I expect higher cognitive functions from a genuine natural slave.

Rule -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 1:24:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth What a coincidence neither do you. Sure you have lots of pictures but none of them show actual proof. Thank you for agreeing that she does not have any evidence. Perchance you after all do have the higher cognitive function that I expect in a natural slave.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 1:28:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth What a coincidence neither do you. Sure you have lots of pictures but none of them show actual proof. Thank you for agreeing that she does not have any evidence. Perchance you after all do have the higher cognitive function that I expect in a natural slave. Okay my post was badly worded. What I meant was that you have yet to demonstrate any evidence at all. Lots of pictures yes evidence no. You really should look at my profile I don't claim to be any kind of slave at all. That you are claiming that of me only shows a lack of thoroughness on your part.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 1:32:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Of course I do not have evidence that a plane crashed there. That is because no plane ever crashed there. Duh! Quit putting words in my mouth you know damn well what I meant.

Rule -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 1:34:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth Lots of pictures yes evidence no. You are very much mistaken. I have never presented any evidence, nor have I ever posted any picture(s). Your false assertion shows a lack of thoroughness on your part. So you are not a natural slave. Well, that affirms my suspicion that you might not be one, then.

Rule -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 1:35:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Of course I do not have evidence that a plane crashed there. That is because no plane ever crashed there. Duh! Quit putting words in my mouth you know damn well what I meant. [8D]

jlf1961 -> RE: There was a plane! (8/21/2011 2:03:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth Okay my post was badly worded. What I meant was that you have yet to demonstrate any evidence at all. Lots of pictures yes evidence no. You really should look at my profile I don't claim to be any kind of slave at all. That you are claiming that of me only shows a lack of thoroughness on your part. Actually, Rule has never provided proof of anything, nothing but batshit crazy theories. He even claims to have investigated every eyewitness and proved they all lied about what they said they saw concerning the impacts of the planes in the WTC and the Pentagon. Which is a blatant lie on his part.

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