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Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 10:59:28 AM   
joether


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The rich are different from the rest of us.

quote:


Psychologist and social scientist Dacher Keltner says the rich really are different, and not in a good way: Their life experience makes them less empathetic, less altruistic, and generally more selfish.

In fact, he says, the philosophical battle over economics, taxes, debt ceilings and defaults that are now roiling the stock market is partly rooted in an upper class "ideology of self-interest."

“We have now done 12 separate studies measuring empathy in every way imaginable, social behavior in every way, and some work on compassion and it’s the same story,” he said. “Lower class people just show more empathy, more prosocial behavior, more compassion, no matter how you look at it.”


The article ends with one other curious observation:

quote:


There is one interesting piece of evidence showing that many rich people may not be selfish as much as willfully clueless, and therefore unable to make the cognitive link between need and resources. Last year, research at Duke and Harvard universities showed that regardless of political affiliation or income, Americans tended to think wealth distribution ought to be more equal.

The problem? Rich people wrongly believed it already was.


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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 11:06:09 AM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The rich are different from the rest of us.

quote:


Psychologist and social scientist Dacher Keltner says the rich really are different, and not in a good way: Their life experience makes them less empathetic, less altruistic, and generally more selfish.

In fact, he says, the philosophical battle over economics, taxes, debt ceilings and defaults that are now roiling the stock market is partly rooted in an upper class "ideology of self-interest."

“We have now done 12 separate studies measuring empathy in every way imaginable, social behavior in every way, and some work on compassion and it’s the same story,” he said. “Lower class people just show more empathy, more prosocial behavior, more compassion, no matter how you look at it.”


The article ends with one other curious observation:

quote:


There is one interesting piece of evidence showing that many rich people may not be selfish as much as willfully clueless, and therefore unable to make the cognitive link between need and resources. Last year, research at Duke and Harvard universities showed that regardless of political affiliation or income, Americans tended to think wealth distribution ought to be more equal.

The problem? Rich people wrongly believed it already was.





Typical asshole post.  How many universities have YOU founded?  How many hospitals?  Last I checked, Danny Thomas was famously rich and his children's hospital in Memphis is one of the best in the country.  How many libraries did you fund?  Carnegie founded a bunch.  Have you give as much to AIDS research as Gates?  America is the most charitable country in the world....whom do you think has the majority of excess cash in their pockets to be able to donate in the first place? 

The lower class has more empathy?  I dunno...I haven't seen anyone from Malibu knocking over a liquor store and shooting the clerk in the face lately.

You know what this post is?  This is a post by someone who WILL NEVER BE RICH.  The person will never be rich because he/she is petty, envious, unambitious, lazy, unfocused.............a myriad of reasons.  And that some people have wealth drives this type of person up the fucking wall.

Let me tell you something about the rich.  One common trait is that they don't tolerate excuses from non-starters. 

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 8/10/2011 11:07:07 AM >

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 11:12:36 AM   
philosophy


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I used to do a paper round as a kid. The estate I lived on had council housing at one end, bought houses in the middle and plots where people built their own houses at the far end.

Come Christmas, I'd get a bonus from most of the council houses, some of the bought houses and none of the built houses.

Purely anecodotal but there you go........

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 11:23:02 AM   
Hillwilliam


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People are different. Wow, what a concept.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 6:56:56 PM   
erieangel


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A great difference there Locked, is that the people you happen to site in your rant against income equality didn't start off as wealthy--Many second and third generation wealthy are selfish and/or out of touch with what the majority of the country faces on a daily basis. And many of the people (unlike Gates), but like you who have gotten comfortable if not outright wealthy in recent times, believe that everybody can do it. Not everybody can. Some people happen to have developmental disabilities, run into a bit of bad luck or face a myrid of other roadblocks to wealth. They are not nonstarters. For myself, I wouldn't want to be rich if it turned me into a bitter, selfish, self-righteous creep as you appear to be.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:16:12 PM   
slvemike4u


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Hell,I wouldn't want to be breathing if I had to be like him .What a miserable bastard.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:17:37 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

A great difference there Locked, is that the people you happen to site in your rant against income equality didn't start off as wealthy--Many second and third generation wealthy are selfish and/or out of touch with what the majority of the country faces on a daily basis. And many of the people (unlike Gates), but like you who have gotten comfortable if not outright wealthy in recent times, believe that everybody can do it. Not everybody can. Some people happen to have developmental disabilities, run into a bit of bad luck or face a myrid of other roadblocks to wealth. They are not nonstarters. For myself, I wouldn't want to be rich if it turned me into a bitter, selfish, self-righteous creep as you appear to be.

Yes. Every point you made is valid erieangel.

Another issue is this: In the race to wealth only a few can be winners. The amount of wealth going around is finite, and for every 'winner' there are heaps of 'losers'. It is simply impossible for everyone to be wealthy. It is impossible for most people to be wealthy. Wealth is the privilege of the few.

However being allowed to retain that wealth is the prerogative of the many. Those who like lockedaway pour scorn and abuse on those less affluent than themselves would do well to remember this. If the rich wish to retain their wealth, they would be well advised to ensure that the masses of people less well off have a comfortable standard of living. It's prudent from the point of view of the wealthy.

lockedaway is a prime example of rampant greed blinding sensible prudence. If you wish to find out what happens when the rich ignore this prudential policy, take a look at current events in the UK.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/10/2011 7:23:06 PM >


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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:23:13 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

In the race to wealth only a few can be winners. The amount of wealth going around is finite, and for every 'winner' there are heaps of 'losers'.


Why do you believe wealth to be finite?

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:26:25 PM   
slvemike4u


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Are not resources finite?

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:34:12 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

In the race to wealth only a few can be winners. The amount of wealth going around is finite, and for every 'winner' there are heaps of 'losers'.


Why do you believe wealth to be finite?

There is a finite amount of money, a finite amount of resources, a finite amount of wealth producing mechanisms. The amount of wealth available at any one moment may be capable of being expanded/increased but it will never become infinite. Wealth is a human production. Therefore it is finite.

I do hope you aren't suggesting wealth is infinite - that would be too silly for words. And if it's not infinite, it must be finite.

While we are at it, we should also note that wealth is relative - what counts as wealthy in culture/place might not be wealthy in another culture/place.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:34:39 PM   
playfulotter


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I think resources are finite in a way and I have heard this one story all my life..if you distributed all the wealth in the planet to everyone in the world in a number of years we would end up in the same situation overall....I don't know all the details but it is probably true for the most part...I would like to hear discussions on this theory.

< Message edited by playfulotter -- 8/10/2011 7:36:11 PM >


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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:48:46 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
If the rich wish to retain their wealth, they would be well advised to ensure that the masses of people less well off have a comfortable standard of living. It's prudent from the point of view of the wealthy.

The rich do that, thru the businesses they started and own they provide jobs for their employees.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:55:42 PM   
tj444


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Oh wow, according to the article, an income of $90,000/year is considered "rich", huh? I dont think that goes far in NY, SoCal and other places...



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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:56:21 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

In the race to wealth only a few can be winners. The amount of wealth going around is finite, and for every 'winner' there are heaps of 'losers'.


Why do you believe wealth to be finite?


Wealth seems to be finite in the agragate because it is hoarded or destroyed by Markets and/or inflation. The Dow Jones Industrials Index for example is lower today than it was in 2000. The Tokyo Market is about 80% lower than it was in 1989. Cycles of boom and bust.

As for philanthropy, it is impossible to judge the motivations for giving to charity but interesting to speculate outside the box. True altruism/compassion is one motive, I suppose. But consider when men such as Carnegie or Gates have attained great wealth what more do they have to occupy that drive for accumulation than making a legacy for their name? Same game, different coins: historical status or peer group status. What good is wealth if you can't spend it? The return on investment in charity is a sort of nobility. We do not have knighthoods in the States after all. Shame that

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 7:58:51 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Are not resources finite?

Wealth arises from the value added by what you do with your resources. The value of the raw materials in a iPhone is not a measure of the value of the iPhone. Value (and hence wealth) is created.

K.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 8:06:31 PM   
slvemike4u


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But the resources that built that iPhone are indeed finite...hence in no way at all can wealth be considered infinite.It just can not be so,were it infinite would it not lose it's value?

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 8:14:27 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
As for philanthropy, it is impossible to judge the motivations for giving to charity but interesting to speculate outside the box. True altruism/compassion is one motive, I suppose. But consider when men such as Carnegie or Gates have attained great wealth what more do they have to occupy that drive for accumulation than making a legacy for their name? Same game, different coins: historical status or peer group status. What good is wealth if you can't spend it? The return on investment in charity is a sort of nobility. We do not have knighthoods in the States after all. Shame that

I am no fan of Bill Gates but I doubt he created great wealth and then to give it away as charity to get a sainthood. Shit, he's dammed if he does and dammed if he doesnt with you..

I personally dont think he is doing it for the reason you suggest, or it would not be on the scale he has given thus far and intention to further give most of his fortune away.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 8:15:59 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But the resources that built that iPhone are indeed finite...hence in no way at all can wealth be considered infinite.It just can not be so,were it infinite would it not lose it's value?

Why would an iPhone lose it's value if the raw materials were infinite? It might cost less (depending on how easily those resources could be accessed) but price and value are not the same thing, as anyone who has ever bought a used car well knows.

Too, many if not most resources can be recycled and reused in newer products, considerably extending the notion of a "finite" supply.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/10/2011 8:18:51 PM >

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 8:20:34 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The rich are different from the rest of us.

I haven't done a study, of course, but I'd be willing to bet that people who make a fucking career out of complaining about "the rich" are different from the rest of us too.

K.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/10/2011 8:28:59 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The rich are different from the rest of us.

quote:


Psychologist and social scientist Dacher Keltner says the rich really are different, and not in a good way: Their life experience makes them less empathetic, less altruistic, and generally more selfish.

In fact, he says, the philosophical battle over economics, taxes, debt ceilings and defaults that are now roiling the stock market is partly rooted in an upper class "ideology of self-interest."

“We have now done 12 separate studies measuring empathy in every way imaginable, social behavior in every way, and some work on compassion and it’s the same story,” he said. “Lower class people just show more empathy, more prosocial behavior, more compassion, no matter how you look at it.”


The article ends with one other curious observation:

quote:


There is one interesting piece of evidence showing that many rich people may not be selfish as much as willfully clueless, and therefore unable to make the cognitive link between need and resources. Last year, research at Duke and Harvard universities showed that regardless of political affiliation or income, Americans tended to think wealth distribution ought to be more equal.

The problem? Rich people wrongly believed it already was.





Typical asshole post.  How many universities have YOU founded?  How many hospitals?  Last I checked, Danny Thomas was famously rich and his children's hospital in Memphis is one of the best in the country.  How many libraries did you fund?  Carnegie founded a bunch.  Have you give as much to AIDS research as Gates?  America is the most charitable country in the world....whom do you think has the majority of excess cash in their pockets to be able to donate in the first place? 

The lower class has more empathy?  I dunno...I haven't seen anyone from Malibu knocking over a liquor store and shooting the clerk in the face lately.

You know what this post is?  This is a post by someone who WILL NEVER BE RICH.  The person will never be rich because he/she is petty, envious, unambitious, lazy, unfocused.............a myriad of reasons.  And that some people have wealth drives this type of person up the fucking wall.

Let me tell you something about the rich.  One common trait is that they don't tolerate excuses from non-starters. 

As usual...going after the messenger.

The math doesn't lie. there is more wealth in the hands of the top 5% then there is in the bottom 50%. Gee, I wonder how it got that way ? The bottom 1/2 owns 1% of all stock. The top 20% own 85% of all stock which means 80% of the US owns only 15% of all stock. The top 400 people in 2010 made over $133 BILLION total and paid an effective rate of 17% in federal taxes.

Almost ALL capital gains income goes to those who make over $300,000/yr because cap gains is just buying and selling and they are the ones who can afford to 'purchase' a 15% federal tax. The stratospheric wealth and income among the top and their puny tax rate is immoral in this country. The only reason they pay so much in taxes is because they make all of real the money in this country.

They are much more job exporters than they are job creators and are as likely to fire another American as they are to resign their citizenship to do what, well of course...to reduce their taxes. Greed is f u n d a m e n t a l to capitalism...Adam Smith.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 8/10/2011 8:36:16 PM >

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