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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/13/2011 6:55:38 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

It seems that most here are in favour of some kind of wealth distribution system that will aim to redress the gross inequalities of wealth in our societies.



Actually, for those who can read, it seems that at least half the posters to this thread are in favour of furtherance of the wealth distribution system that aims to increase the gross inequalities of wealth in our society.


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


I wish to suggest there is a major flaw in this discussion about the redistribution vs isolation of wealth, and it is the result of opposing ideologies blinding the debators to reality. You are all looking narrowly within our closed society and assuming that wealth has not been redistributed. In fact for the past several decades there has been a massive redistribution of wealth away from the older Capitalist societies to the newer market economies in the emerging BRIC nations. This as a result of inequitable currency exchange rates between emerging and older nations, leading to the exploitation of cheap labor abroad and suggesting an exogenous cause for why in the West the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and the middle class is vanishing.

I think the issue is about international trade agreements and the limited effectiveness of the WTO as a Court. All this debate about free markets on the Right and social justice on the Left is just a bunch of political blather and will not solve the problem. With apologies to Indigenous Peoples, the indians are attacking the fort and we are arguing about how to dish out the stew in the dining hall.

Open to any comments on point.



If we were to look at the international redistribution of wealth from 'third world' regions to Western 'developed economies' occurring through much of history, (and still ongoing), we might be better able to put the current situation in proper perspective.

How well is Nigeria doing? Considering how much of their oil has been of benefit to the US economy, one would think they should be doing pretty well by now. Hmmm, guess not.

The Latin American countries are still recovering and will be doing so for some years yet from both military and financial interventions there from their northern gringo neighbor.

The list goes on, but in any event let's get to the BRIC countries, today.

Russia has never been anything other than a gangster country. True under the czar, true under gangster communism, and true under the gangster capitalism there today. Makes no difference. They defaulted on their bonds in '98, just to give everybody a wake-up call, but the subsequent higher interest rate doesn't bother them when they can just extort it out of unwitting foreign investors. The only foreign investors who survive all this are well aware of the situation and bribe accordingly and still manage to keep their business from being stolen from them.

They certainly present no threat to the US, economically or otherwise.

India still has a very long way to go in becoming anything like what could properly be called even a developing economy, however generously the term is ascribed to them already. The few rich people there spend much more on gold trinkets and adornments for the daughter's wedding than they do in investment. OK, I'm exaggerating a bit but it's not far from the truth. We  can all recognize India's contribution to world commerce in providing far and away the most annoying customer service workers ever, but I think that the market has become somewhat saturated there.

Brazil is slowly moving towards becoming economically competent enough to be beneficial trading partners to Canada, the US, and Mexico. The northern countries are already beneficiaries of the trade there; the US keeps loaning Brazilian businesses money to buy US-made equipment, and last I looked Brazil was the 7th largest importer of US goods, and rising. They still certainly have political and social issues to work out, but they are making more headway in that regard than any of the other BRIC countries.


China is the only one of the lot who is keeping their currency artificially low vs. the dollar, being that they are the only ones capable of doing so. But the day is soon coming where things are going to be quite interesting here. They are doing everything possible to battle domestic inflation, which is a guaranteed losing battle in the absence of allowing the currency to float to market rates. They can get away with raising interest rates to some extent for now, being that further foreign investment is not actively sought at the moment. But it's not working, any event. Inflation continues apace, while sporadic riots increase over low pay and overwork.

They are still extremely pissed that they were not voted into the WTO on the first go round, and are more than willing to make their own populace suffer to spite the US and the West for as long as possible.

In any event, the time to asses the effect of other countries and international trade vis a vis the US would be better thought out once we have a grip on how to prevent domestic destruction of our own economy, perhaps.


First things first.


Nothing like putting yourself on better trading terms when dealing with others if you want a better deal.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/13/2011 7:24:54 PM >

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 4:03:10 AM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

where all the rich and wealthy destroyers of the US will be guillotined, ...




If we're  attempting anything like accuracy here, that would be wealth destroyers.

Unless tens of thousands of lost homes, lost jobs, significant loss of asset values across the board, etc., could be considered otherwise. All of this obtained by financial engineering, which beyond legitimate futures and forward contracts directly between buyer and seller are only for purpose of speculation, which cannot do anything for wealth creation in a macro sense. We have certainly seen the other side of it, though.

I have no trouble with the "rich," just the ones who rely on billions of dollars of our tax money as part of the business plan. There are plenty enough rich people who got that way without relying on tax theft, be it from subsidies, tax  credits, oil depletion allowances, offshore tax loopholes, bailouts, invasions of other countries, etc.



Did you read the article? Just curious because if you're going to attempt accuracy, it might help if you actually shoot at the target. To put that in terms you might understand, the line of demarcation identified by this article contains millions of people who have absolutely nothing to do with the stuff you're talking about unless you are crucifying them based upon investment strategies - which for a good many is going to be tied to retirement.

The people you're actually discussing comprise a tiny segment of the population in terms of percentages. The definition of wealthy in this case is 90k. The definition of wealthy in terms of those we get to officially hate is 250k. In the middle of that discussion, you point fingers at people who rely on "billions" of your tax dollars.

If that's what you consider accurate, I'd rather go hunting with Cheney.


_____________________________


--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 5:20:51 AM   
Edwynn


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Yes, I am well aware of the ridiculous 90k figure for being "rich,"  and I fully agree on the absurdity of that, sorry if I forgot to be specific in regarding that.

quote:


The people you're actually discussing constitute a tiny segment of the population in terms of percentages.



Never said otherwise. Which makes the damage they have inflicted upon the economy far in disproportion to their numbers all the more unwarranted.

I don't have an exact figure on just how many tax dollars are being sent to ExxonMobile because no one does, so convoluted are all the different channels for that purpose. But a few millions a year would be the low side of it, by the most conservative estimates.

I did not intend to 'attack' your point of view nor the post I quoted from in particular, I merely was being opportunistic in grabbing a line from that to convey what is in fact an accurate description (via my re-wording) of what the financial industry has wrought upon the country.


You are right in calling me out on the "billions of dollars of our tax money" in regards to inaccuracy, though.

The tab for the Iraqi invasion stands at $4 trillion thus far, congratulations to Haliburton, Blackwater, KBR, etc.

The bailout of the job and home destroyers (financial industry) is listed at $1.4 trillion dollars, the initial figures given for the two TARP installments, even though it is acknowledged by all who cover that industry that the actual dole-out is significantly higher.

So yes, stating it as "billions of our tax dollars" was indeed inexcusably inaccurate.

Any regards, if you would trouble yourself to read the rest of my posts in this thread beyond that particular one, (or actually read the entirety of that post itself), you might be able to glean from them that I have no issue with 'the rich,'  by anybody's definition, but rather with tax theft and wealth destruction by a certain, relatively small portion of them.

As you would find in that endeavor, I point out that there are a sufficient number of companies and individuals who  found their way to fortune  with out leaching from tax payers. The Koch brothers would not be in that group.

















< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/14/2011 5:36:28 AM >

(in reply to StrangerThan)
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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 5:56:06 AM   
StrangerThan


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Status: offline 		Just to keep things on an even keel, I have as much problem with many of the same points as you do. I'm not sure I consider it "tax theft" though since we give it to them.

I wrote in another thread that this specific issue was one I felt Republicans needed to address since telling old folks we needed to cut their medical benefits and social security, while refusing to consider any additional tax burden on the wealthiest, was getting difficult for many to swallow, even many among what Republicans consider their base. What I also said that generated a good bit of derision was that I wasn't sure the targets set as the official class-envy levels were right.

A good many of the people I know feel Social Security has been robbed over and over by politicians who now point at those who paid into it as the problem. I often use my father as a bellwether since he's been a Republican his entire life and has a good many friends who are also in the party. While the support for the party in general is there, there are also a good many rumblings and discontent over policies that sideline them except when it's election time.

And if you want to know what keeps them there, it boils down to the same argument that liberals often make. Dems listen to their fringes as much or more so than Republicans do. A good many of these people sit somewhere right of center but quite a distance from the far right. The democratic party as a whole isn't going to sway them much unless it heads toward center ground.

Shrug.

Of course, some here will find the worst cases and post them as the norm. I know a couple of those worst cases. They are far from comprising even a small percentage of the folks I know that dems like to hate though.


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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 6:03:09 AM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The rich are different from the rest of us.

quote:


Psychologist and social scientist Dacher Keltner says the rich really are different, and not in a good way: Their life experience makes them less empathetic, less altruistic, and generally more selfish.

In fact, he says, the philosophical battle over economics, taxes, debt ceilings and defaults that are now roiling the stock market is partly rooted in an upper class "ideology of self-interest."

“We have now done 12 separate studies measuring empathy in every way imaginable, social behavior in every way, and some work on compassion and it’s the same story,” he said. “Lower class people just show more empathy, more prosocial behavior, more compassion, no matter how you look at it.”


The article ends with one other curious observation:

quote:


There is one interesting piece of evidence showing that many rich people may not be selfish as much as willfully clueless, and therefore unable to make the cognitive link between need and resources. Last year, research at Duke and Harvard universities showed that regardless of political affiliation or income, Americans tended to think wealth distribution ought to be more equal.

The problem? Rich people wrongly believed it already was.





Typical asshole post.  How many universities have YOU founded?  How many hospitals?  Last I checked, Danny Thomas was famously rich and his children's hospital in Memphis is one of the best in the country.  How many libraries did you fund?  Carnegie founded a bunch.  Have you give as much to AIDS research as Gates?  America is the most charitable country in the world....whom do you think has the majority of excess cash in their pockets to be able to donate in the first place? 

The lower class has more empathy?  I dunno...I haven't seen anyone from Malibu knocking over a liquor store and shooting the clerk in the face lately.

You know what this post is?  This is a post by someone who WILL NEVER BE RICH.  The person will never be rich because he/she is petty, envious, unambitious, lazy, unfocused.............a myriad of reasons.  And that some people have wealth drives this type of person up the fucking wall.

Let me tell you something about the rich.  One common trait is that they don't tolerate excuses from non-starters. 


I didn't read the study, but I can see it being true for many (not all) of those who were born and raised in wealth. If they are never exposed to a lifestyle without wealth, how would they know differently?

Now take someone like Oprah Winfrey, possibly the wealthiest woman on the planet. Her wealth came later in life and she most definitely doesn't suffer from a lack of altruism and all of the other negative aspects cited in the study referenced by the OP.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 6:49:25 AM   
Edwynn


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Thanks for the thoughtful response.

You are in NC, if I recall. I voted against Helms all four times and voted for Sue Myric three times when I lived in Charlotte, but I'm in GA now. Haven't voted since, because it sucks much worse down here, but I suppose I'll try again once I'm done at the university and get a real job, etc.

But anyways, the party line thing just doesn't work, not to say that I'm troubled by that in any case. I'm more troubled by the fact that both parties seem to consistently snatch stupid away from the jaws of smart evermore increasingly here in their actions.

What I like about my studies in econ is not really the Solow growth model, the GDP deflator, the IS curve, the Phillips curve, etc. (yawn), but rather the introduction to economies in other parts of the world. (the concentration here being international econ).

If you ever find yourself truly bored and lack for anything better to do, dig out some info on Ordoliberalism (Deutsche; Ordoliberalismus).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordoliberalism

To over simplify it, the concept of well functioning markets is held to be best promulgated and supported by sufficient regulation. In the US, the media and not a small portion of academia have us believing that business, government, and the labor force are forever to be 'natural' enemies and aiming RPGs at each other at all times, may the best chump win. Ordoliberalism considers the three elements to be working in coordination with each other as a natural course of events. Quite different huh?

Oh well, enough boredom for now.

All I will add is that being broke all this time going to the uni, once I get a 'real' job after graduation, I will certainly feel like a rich SOB. Probably less than $90k, though. See how easy some people are?







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/14/2011 7:02:46 AM >

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 8:33:56 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

China is the only one of the lot who is keeping their currency artificially low vs. the dollar, being that they are the only ones capable of doing so. But the day is soon coming where things are going to be quite interesting here. They are doing everything possible to battle domestic inflation, which is a guaranteed losing battle in the absence of allowing the currency to float to market rates. They can get away with raising interest rates to some extent for now, being that further foreign investment is not actively sought at the moment. But it's not working, any event. Inflation continues apace, while sporadic riots increase over low pay and overwork.


But serious, perhaps irreversible damage has already been done to our economy. Since China entered the WTO in 2001 our national debt has gone from $4T to $14T and is projected to increase even more rapidly. Not exactly sure how it works but China has been manipulating their currency by exchanging the yuan for dollars and using the dollars to buy our Treasury debt. So China has provided Demand for our sovereign debt while building their own trade surplus. By maintaining a lower currency they have provided cheap labor to worldwide manufacturing corporations. A company like New Era, who makes sport caps, closes its plant in Arkansas (or Alabama) assigns the manufacture function to a company in China at maybe 2% the labor cost, idles workers in Arkansas, and then tries to sell its baseball caps to the working class to shade them from the sun while they stand in unemployment lines.

Meanwhile, people say we are in a business cycle downturn. Are we? Or are we entering a sovereign debt crisis like the EU nations? Corporate debt has been transfered to the Treasury and Fed balance sheets. If we are in a sovereign debt crisis then further fiscal stimulus will probably be (a) unacceptable and (b) ineffective, and so will lower interest rates for new businesses (imo) Near zero interest rates and QE2 by the Fed goosed the stock market a bit, but much of that money probably went to non-productive speculation/gambling.

quote:

In any event, the time to asses the effect of other countries and international trade vis a vis the US would be better thought out once we have a grip on how to prevent domestic destruction of our own economy, perhaps.


Herein lies the issue. I think. We have treated the 2008 episode as a busness cycle downturn and have used the traditional fiscal and monetary techniques to little avail. Well, that is an over statement we have gone from -6% or -9% GDP growth to +1.5% growth but our sovereign debt is growing faster than the GDP. We seem to be left with reducing the Federal deficit and monetizing the National Debt, which portend reduction of aggragate demand and inflationary hard times ahead for the laboring classes while the devaluation of the dollar will destroy the wealth of debt holders.

Instead of redistributing wealth we seem to be headed for a distribution of misery. I don't think you can put off what is happening in Europe and China until AFTER we put our own house in order. They are in our house already. Each nation will try to devalue its currency in order to increase exports and promote job growth. It may be a race to the bottom with no winners. Doesnt look good. Would appreciate someone to talk me down from this looming shit pile of misfortune.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 8/14/2011 8:34:54 AM >

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 1:41:29 PM   
Edwynn


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I agree with your sentiments, broadly speaking, after some numbers being corrected. But I'm not in the Department of Doom, to put it that way.

You are correct in saying that we need to look at  the international trade situation as part of domestic considerations, but that situation has been with us before the housing bubble/CDO/sub-prime meltdown, and we were doing OK prior to that.

The Chinese did not create CDOs and CDOs squared, etc., nor did they go door to door selling sub-prime refinance loans to semi-literate widows that cost them their house two years later.

But they have unwisely made their fortune on an export-based economy and are now having to deal with the consequences of a bad combination of lack of a broad-based domestic economy other than real estate speculation and the spreading inflation from that one sector. Their own very good economists (including head of the Peoples Bank of China) have been arguing for a change in that direction for years, but have been trumped by the party elite (hmmm, sound familiar?).

They were actually gradually relaxing the under-valued yuan peg to the dollar a few years ago but halted the process when the US financial meltdown occurred. See what I mean about taking care of our own situation before we start carping about others? In any case it appears as though they are finally starting to address the whole situation, but China is the second largest economy and the US is the largest economy, which inherent inertia in such sizes means that it won't be all better next week, but it is happening in any case.

Have a look:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-12/china-central-bank-says-debt-level-in-u-s-developed-nations-worrisome-.html

An excerpt:

- The People’s Bank of China repeated a pledge to improve the yuan exchange-rate mechanism and to keep the currency “basically stable” at a reasonable and balanced level. The Chinese currency rose to a 17-year high this week as policy makers sought to counter accelerating inflation.

“The foundation of stabilizing prices is still not solid enough, and the situation is not optimistic,” it said. Consumer prices rose 6.5 percent last month and inflation has exceeded the government’s full-year target of 4 percent each month this year. Gross domestic product expanded 9.5 percent in the second quarter, slowing from a 9.7 percent gain in the first three months. -


The bold above is mine.

Just as I said (or maybe just implied) in the  previous post, they cannot avoid letting the yuan graduate to a proper float without having runaway inflation domestically.

I hear what you say about the race to the bottom regarding '"currency wars" but I think we are actually there already, so everybody is in reassessment mode now.

Japan is purposely trying to pare down the yen because it is in fact over-valued by the currency markets, and not only is nobody complaining but actually lending some minor help in that regard, China and US included. If you want to see one precedent for this, here's how our international buddies helped out the US in such time of need:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord

- The Plaza Accord or Plaza Agreement was an agreement between the governments of France, West Germany, Japan, the United States, and the United Kingdom, to depreciate the U.S. dollar in relation to the Japanese yen and German Deutsche Mark by intervening in currency markets. The five governments signed the accord on September 22, 1985 at the Plaza Hotel in New York City.

The justification for the dollar's devaluation was twofold: to reduce the U.S. current account deficit, which had reached 3.5% of the GDP, and to help the U.S. economy to emerge from a serious recession that began in the early 1980s. The U.S. Federal Reserve System under Paul Volcker had halted the stagflation crisis of the 70s by raising interest rates, but this resulted in the dollar becoming overvalued to the extent that it made industry in the U.S. (particularly the automobile industry) less competitive in the global market.

Devaluing the dollar made U.S. exports cheaper to its trading partners, which in turn meant that other countries bought more American-made goods and services. -


I would say that was quite a nice gesture on their part, Germany and Japan especially.

It is true that The US has a higher ratio of service sector to industry sector than other countries, but it is also true that service/industry ratio is high for ALL developed economies, Germany included. The reason that the US ratio is higher is that the legal and especially the health and finance sectors provide such a high return on investment as compared to any other country. Somehow this is not playing out to overall better standard of living or quality of life, especially given the current situation.

So then to the subject of the US's or any developed economy's situation, here's the formula and the results:

Canada, most of continental Europe, and even China have recovered from the fallout already, while the US is still floundering, and Ireland and the UK are having riots. Canada and the continental European countries had adequate or better financial regulation, China's 'regulation' is too bizarre to figure out, but in any case, the US and Britain and Ireland fell short of the mark there and are suffering accordingly.

As to the numbers presented in your post,

"Well, that is an over statement we have gone from -6% or -9% GDP growth to +1.5% growth ... "

I'm not sure if we've seen anything above 6% since the 60's, but here is more recent data:

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=us&v=66

Country           1999   2000   2001   2002   2003   2004   2005   2006   2007   2008  2009   2010
United States      4.1       5     0.3   2.45    3.1      4.4      3.2      3.2         2      1.1    -2.6      2.8


If I recall (I don't feel like digging out the book, sorry), the 'typical' growth rate for mature/developed economies is ~ 3.2% to 3.6%, while for developing economies ~ 4.8% to 9.4 %. It makes sense that those who have more ground to make up do so at a faster pace once the direction has been taken, and that developed economies are stuck with better education and improved technology as the only road to keep up with the situation. Those that consider higher education as a 'luxury item' for those obtaining such might want to read that last part again. And again.

As seen in the above excerpt, China is putting the brakes on, successfully reducing from 9.7% to 9.5% GDP growth, and trying trying their best to get lower than that. Quickly.

Off the charts GDP growth is not the end-all and be-all, in fact it is quite destructive.

In any case, the international economy has been with us for decades already. The US has benefited from that as much as anyone else. When we point our finger at China about the renmimbi and they point their finger right back at our substandard and ruinous financial regulation, we aren't moving forward here.

I see China taking slow and awkward steps in the direction of improvement. I am seeing the US taking loud and clumsy steps in retrograde motion.

The US congress and current president aren't going to whip us into shape here, forget that. (nor any of the potential candidates in the next election, while we're at it).


The rest of the world will, though.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/14/2011 2:38:46 PM >

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 3:09:18 PM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/08/11/income_inequality/index.html


For the libs on this board, see if you can comprehend what is being said in this vid:

http://bearingdrift.com/2011/08/11/felonious-monk-is-right/

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 3:29:27 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

http://bearingdrift.com/2011/08/11/felonious-monk-is-right/





That explains a lot about your mindset an your mental capacity in general.



(in reply to lockedaway)
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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 3:48:49 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		You are such a funny man, Rodgers.  You whine and bitch about money being consolidated by the rich.  Poor baby.  Poor, poor Rodgers.  You know something...I make more money every year.  Know why?  It is like building up speed.  Building up momentum.  So I make more because I don't squander what little I had going in.  I build on it.  And YOU, of course, have a PROBLEM with it because it isn't flowing into your pocket. 

Really...you don't see that as pathetic?  As envious?  You don't see the rank jealousy in how you feel?  Look...I do a couple of things for a living.  None of them are all that clamorous.  I'm not boarding my private Gulf Stream IV to sign some business deal in Zurich.  But God love the people that are....good for them.  Except, perhaps, by backing a left wing socialist like O'scumbag, they have done nothing to hold me back or reduce what I earn.  Now...if I invented something that made me 100's of millions, I would be hated by you even more, right?  You would demand that I live on less so you could have more rather than you going out and earning it yourself...right?  Right.

"ooooooooohhhhhh...the wealth is consolidated!  Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah....I will never have wealth and its not fair!"  Gonna hold your breath now???  I made my money without doing anything to hold you back.  Millions of people have made 1,000's of times more money than me...................................and they did it without holding me back.  Grow the fuck up, work harder, spend less time on this board and use your imagination and you will probably be much wealthier this time next year than you are now.

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 3:52:07 PM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

http://bearingdrift.com/2011/08/11/felonious-monk-is-right/





That explains a lot about your mindset an your mental capacity in general.





Oh that is hysterical!  The diatribe...and an interesting diatribe at that....says a lot about my mental capacity.  As what?  A viewer?  A conservative?  A liberal? A poor man?  A wealthy man?  A cardiovascular surgeon?  A hard working man?  An unemployed man?  A landscaper?  A rottweiler? 

What your post says about you....and let me make this clear....is that you are an ASSHOLE. :)

< Message edited by lockedaway -- 8/14/2011 3:59:18 PM >

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 3:59:10 PM   
Edwynn


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You take pointing out obvious and well demonstrated fact as a "diatribe."

What are you so angry about there?

If you are doing so well, why all the anger?







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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 4:00:44 PM   
lockedaway


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



You take pointing out obvious and well demonstrated fact as a "diatribe."

What are you so angry about there?

If you are doing so well, why all the anger?









Don't confuse contempt with anger.  You have no idea how much I laugh when replying to you guys.  Don't confuse disgust with anger either. 

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RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 4:05:21 PM   
Edwynn


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Fair deal.

As long as you don't confuse your incompetence with anything worth righteousness.





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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 4:14:31 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



Fair deal.

As long as you don't confuse your incompetence with anything worth righteousness.







There's nothing incompetent about me, loser.  I'm one of the one's you rail about for no good reason.  I am who you consider to be the enemy because I don't want my tax dollars going to support you.  I am the one that champions self determination with an EXTREMELY  limited social safety net except for the disabled or seniors and what is more fair than that?  Why do you believe that because you cannot improve your station in life that you are entitled to the fruits of other people's labor?  Do the honorable thing...have some dignity.  If you can't live the standard of living you want to live, either work harder or learn to eek out happiness at whatever level you are at.  Failing that, rather than asking for a handout, fill your pockets with rocks and walk out into the ocean. 

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 4:30:17 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

Read back in the thread, and you would see where I stand in both personal situation and my consideration of society, including 'rich people,' elsewise.

The fact that you obviously are incapable of that or otherwise fail comprehension skills to understand any of it, which in regard is rather substituted by your fanciful and self-conventient, not to mention idiotic and utterly fatuous fabrication, is what leads any competent reader to logically assume massive competency failure on your part.


Whatever your income level, you rank among the biggest losers I've ever come across.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/14/2011 4:44:03 PM >

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 4:31:57 PM   
Theon38


Posts: 53
Joined: 8/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Yes, I am well aware of the ridiculous 90k figure for being "rich," and I fully agree on the absurdity of that, sorry if I forgot to be specific in regarding that.


I agree. The figure should be somewhere closer to 40k.

An Indian immigrant to the United States was asked, "Why do you want to immigrate to the US?" and his reply was, "I wanted to live where the poor people are fat."

You're rich if you can come to collarme.com and bitch about politics, because it means you have a free time and a computer, which most of the world doesn't have.

You're rich if you get to eat at least twice a day.

You're rich if you have indoor plumbing. A television. A fridge.

Just because you take this for granted doesn't mean you're not rich.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 4:38:15 PM   
lockedaway


Posts: 1720
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38

quote:

Yes, I am well aware of the ridiculous 90k figure for being "rich," and I fully agree on the absurdity of that, sorry if I forgot to be specific in regarding that.


I agree. The figure should be somewhere closer to 40k.

An Indian immigrant to the United States was asked, "Why do you want to immigrate to the US?" and his reply was, "I wanted to live where the poor people are fat."

You're rich if you can come to collarme.com and bitch about politics, because it means you have a free time and a computer, which most of the world doesn't have.

You're rich if you get to eat at least twice a day.

You're rich if you have indoor plumbing. A television. A fridge.

Just because you take this for granted doesn't mean you're not rich.


Exactly!  People in the U.S. haven't known abject poverty in a very long time and thank God...that's great...knock on wood, don't step on a crack, etc.  There is a project housing community right down the street from my office.  The units have window unit air conditioners, cable wires cris-crossing the place, satellite dishes, there are nice cars in the lot.  America's poor are some of the richest people in the world.  And yet.......it isn't enough.  It will NEVER be enough.  When the cardiovascular surgeon has to use food stamps like the welfare recipient...THEN, maybe, it will be enough.

(in reply to Theon38)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Yet .....ANOTHER....study regarding the wealthy - 8/14/2011 4:58:15 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
It will NEVER be enough. 




True, that.

When the largest earning corporation of all time, ExxonMobile, and Goldman Sachs with their tax payer bailout-funded record breaking profits, and the Koch brothers entire business all depend so heavily upon tax payer dollars, and still get to keep ALL of it even after the latest debt ceiling fiasco, even as some of congress idiots were seeking even MORE tax breaks in process of dealing with a budget crisis, one can certainly understand the sentiment:

"It will NEVER be never enough."







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 8/14/2011 5:05:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 140
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