RE: Who else carries?

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Termyn8or -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 1:45:55 AM)
"geeze,. you see someone playing with a rifle and you try to deal with it yourself instead of calling the police that know how to deal with situations like that? of course it being friggin loaded was a possibility.. anyone playing around with a rifle, you think they got any brains? " Are you fucking kidding me ? If you think people wielding a shotgun around should be dealt with by "Hang on while I get my cellphone out of my purse" you are worthy of becoming a statistic. T^T

Aswad -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 2:21:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 ok, better they blew yours off then, i guess... Not at all. And, fortunately, my head is doing fine. Have you never risked yourself for another? quote: i guess parents over there dont teach their kids any better than parents over here do.. if they were "punk kids" as you called them, they dont sound that young and the cops (with protective gear) should have been called in. If they know there is a gun involved, i would expect them to be there very quickly.. and then maybe no one would have been shot. Perhaps I have misunderstood the expression. English is, after all, not my native language, so some nuances are occasionally lost, dated or misunderstood. By "punk kids", I meant that they were frequently up to mischief and getting into trouble. Age-appropriate trouble, that is. The break-in should be understood as comparable to kids daring each other to enter a "haunted" house. We're talking maybe double digit ages here. The same kid that fired the rifle later got an open fracture of the tibia playing around with a forklift, so not the sharpest knife if the drawer, either. Anyway, the time it would have taken to get to a phone, plus the time for the police to get there, would be over half an hour. The place was pretty rural back then. Obviously, a lot can happen in half an hour, and probably would have. In hindsight, it might have been better to let him shoot himself, but seeing as he pointed it at me, I'm inclined to think the likely outcome if I wasn't there would have been that he would've shot his friend or his baby brother. The latter, at least, can't really be faulted for being there, as the older was supposed to be babysitting the younger, and he did learn a lesson that day. Only one of those present had a grasp of the danger involved. That would be me. I haven't had any lasting ill effects from it, so all's well in my book. Lady Luck has a gorgeous smile sometimes. Health, al-Aswad.

Termyn8or -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 2:22:56 AM)
This deserves a reponse. "Having been shot by kids whose parents didn't own a gun, I would tend to disagree. Carry as much as you like, but don't leave ready for use anything that invites long-range accidents when you're not around. See, it's not the punk kids that got an early introduction to what is behind those statistics after they broke in and grabbed an unsecured rifle. It's me, for telling them not to keep playing with it. " "If the owner had been in the house, he would have had control over his rifle. He wasn't in the house. Therefore, he did not have control over his rifle. And he can only need his rifle when he and his rifle are in the same house. When he is away from his rifle, he should secure it. When he returns to his rifle, he can unsecure it again so it is ready for use. " I must admit that my security is not the best. Iron doors and keys are the best but I depend on innovative hiding places. But I agree that really I could walk in the door at any time and find my iron gone, and who knows what is going on with it ? That situation will be adjusted, but not the fact that when it is secured into my use and someone comes in to rape, pillage or plunder, they will beconme a statistic. But what I wonder is the exact scenario in which you got shot,. You are talking about a bunch of kids. Teens I would guess but if you say "Hey, shoot that thing up at the cieling" why would they then point it at you ? My guess is that they knew it could kill and wanted you at least incapacitated. If they were old enough to steal it....... Don't overestimate youth, they are not all altruistic. If a ten year old broke into my house and I killed him dead, I would have no remorse. And that day with you, where was your gun ? "Put it down or I am going to drop you". But back to this security thing. Right now this place is damnear never empty, but damnear being the operative word, maybe I should take some more precautions. You might not know it but a handgun was once stolen out of here, about five years ago or so. I don't know what happened to it, nobody does. The olman kept it right out in the open on the bed head thing whatever you call it, in plain sight. We went to the store, got back, it was gone and a window broken. Mine is not quite as easy but I wil give some thought to making it harder for anyone else to get to. But this getting shot, how the fuck did this happen ? Were they far away or something, or in a HUGE house with you or what ? You have piqued my curiousity here. Kids ? Always tell them to shoot up. It's just a lack of details here. I would've walked right up to them and if little enough just took the damn thing away. But for some reason that did not work, or was unworkable. Obviously LOL. Like I said I am curious as to the details. T^T

Aswad -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 3:42:19 AM)
#180 on pg 9 and #128 on pg 7 should clear it up for you, Termyn8or. The kids were a fixture in the neighbourhood, and being a fan of taking long walks by myself, I ran into them every now and then. It's been a while, so the details are a bit faded, but I remember them coming out of that cabin, the oldest one carrying the rifle. I basically told him to put it away before someone got hurt, and he replied something along the lines of not to worry as it wasn't loaded, and going "see?" while pointing it unsteadily at me, then he pulls the trigger. I recall their reactions rather vividly, a bit like a still photo. They had expected a "click" and a laugh. I think I remember panicky voices, but it's kind of hazy after that "photo" memory. I've no recollection of how I got home, for instance, just a vague notion of staggering off, an image of ling (common heather) and a strong desire to get home. I've actually given it very little thought over the years, but thinking back, I'm curious why ling would stick in my mind. The prelude is faded like most old memories, and a good while after is a haze, but there are some few things that stick, and the ling is one of them, ubiquitous in the whole area at the time. As I said, just mischievous kids being dumb as usual. If I were to ruminate over trivial things like that, I would go nuts. Health, al-Aswad.

Termyn8or -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 4:02:39 AM)
Sorry Man, this post 180 and shit, you know I miss a few. That sucks, and really that is the trap of youth. What if you died ? I would have kicked the shit out of the kid's Parents though. Or had it done. That is bullshit, and the thing is, you still don't know that one of those kids didn't load it. A reasonable assumption but not an absolute fact. And what kind of upbringing is that in which the logic taught is "It ain't loaded, I will prove it by shooting at this guy and he don't die". Yeah right. I really am of the opinion that there is only so much brain power to go around and as the world population increases, the obvious happens. Sorry to not go back and see IF the info was there, but how old were these A students ? These future leaders ? These role models ? T^T

StrangerThan -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 5:03:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster Really glad I am never going to meet you Aynne. Do you really not make any distinction between a killer/rapist and someone sneaking in to steal your i pod and kick your dog? You would really kill someone to protect a laptop or a phone? Now, I'm curious. Do laptop robber's wear a sign that says, I'm not here to rape or kill you, just to steal your shit? I mean hell, it would make life much easier if criminals announced their intentions first. Maybe send you an email or IM. Like "hey dude, I'll be over tomorrow to steal that new phone you got, so don't be thinking I'm there to do something bad, ya know? Don't want you going all righteous on me and getting a gun" I shot a home intruder years ago. He was looking for money. I didn't know that until later. All I knew was, I was 12, my brother was 8, we were home alone and some guy broke through the storm door with my brother standing on the other side of the back door, staring at him through the panes of glass. I guess I could have opened the back door while he was still outside the storm door and called to him to ask what he was intending to do. Next time in the melee of a kid screaming and crying, someone breaking down the door, I might stop to think I should do that before I grab a shotgun. Nah, I probably won't.

DomImus -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 6:34:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet I have been carrying concealed for a couple of years, plus I always sleep with a gun on the nightstand, or under the pillow. I do it because I get threatened once in a while be ause of my job and because I live in a rural area with not much in the way of police protection, and lots of wild animals. Anyway, the man i have been seeing found a gun under my pillow and expressed his concern about my paranoia. My feeling is, just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. I recognize this is a hot button issue with a lot of people, and I am hoping this thread doesn't take a nasty turn. In any case, who else carries and why? I keep a firearm handy at home. It's fully loaded with a round in the chamber at all times. I keep it on the nightstand while I sleep. My apartment was broken into last year but I have since moved to a much better location. I wasn't quite as vigilant about it until the break in but now I keep it close by. Up until lately I have only carried my firearm outside of my house in my car leaving it locked there when I am out and about. News stories like this have made me reconsider that and actually this afternoon I was planning to go out and shop for a smaller firearm that I can use with an IWB holster for concealment. My 9mm is a little hard to conceal and I'm not really interested in all the flack it would attract. I just want to be able to protect myself.

tj444 -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 6:50:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "geeze,. you see someone playing with a rifle and you try to deal with it yourself instead of calling the police that know how to deal with situations like that? of course it being friggin loaded was a possibility.. anyone playing around with a rifle, you think they got any brains? " Are you fucking kidding me ? If you think people wielding a shotgun around should be dealt with by "Hang on while I get my cellphone out of my purse" you are worthy of becoming a statistic. T^T well, i wouldnt be standing there waiting for them to shoot me. Kids have been known to go on killing sprees, how does anyone know where the kid is coming from?

tj444 -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 6:58:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Perhaps I have misunderstood the expression. English is, after all, not my native language, so some nuances are occasionally lost, dated or misunderstood. By "punk kids", I meant that they were frequently up to mischief and getting into trouble. Age-appropriate trouble, that is. The break-in should be understood as comparable to kids daring each other to enter a "haunted" house. We're talking maybe double digit ages here. The same kid that fired the rifle later got an open fracture of the tibia playing around with a forklift, so not the sharpest knife if the drawer, either. Anyway, the time it would have taken to get to a phone, plus the time for the police to get there, would be over half an hour. The place was pretty rural back then. Obviously, a lot can happen in half an hour, and probably would have. In hindsight, it might have been better to let him shoot himself, but seeing as he pointed it at me, I'm inclined to think the likely outcome if I wasn't there would have been that he would've shot his friend or his baby brother. The latter, at least, can't really be faulted for being there, as the older was supposed to be babysitting the younger, and he did learn a lesson that day. Only one of those present had a grasp of the danger involved. That would be me. I haven't had any lasting ill effects from it, so all's well in my book. Lady Luck has a gorgeous smile sometimes. Health, al-Aswad. You can make excuses for them all you want, I wont. You say they have been in trouble before so their parents arent doing their job at all, imo the parents have no control over them. Imo, no excuse to break into anyones house or take anything they find there. You dont know if you had not been there that anyone would have been hurt, you got hurt cuz you challenged the kid and you escalated the situation. jmo

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 7:09:25 AM)
Aside from the waiting time not allowed for 'calling the police' by many real situations, I think that Aswad was merely acting on some deep-felt 'protection of the species' instinct here, even if not explaining it that way. At least that is what I recognize in my own experience. What I hear from his story is that he saw young people engaging in dangerous activity, and almost uncontrollably jumped right in to prevent action of harm to themselves in that situation. I don't think he had any intention of being a hero, but it is impossible to have expected those kids actually being that stupid. It is apparent that Aswad holds young people in higher regard generally, and has enough respect for them to act as he did that day. This was just one bizarre occurrence, and I am glad to see that it not direct his life in a negative way.

rulemylife -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 7:13:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus I keep a firearm handy at home. It's fully loaded with a round in the chamber at all times. I keep it on the nightstand while I sleep. My apartment was broken into last year but I have since moved to a much better location. I wasn't quite as vigilant about it until the break in but now I keep it close by. Up until lately I have only carried my firearm outside of my house in my car leaving it locked there when I am out and about. News stories like this have made me reconsider that and actually this afternoon I was planning to go out and shop for a smaller firearm that I can use with an IWB holster for concealment. My 9mm is a little hard to conceal and I'm not really interested in all the flack it would attract. I just want to be able to protect myself. No, what you want to do is feel like a bad ass. I think I've told this story before on here, but it's worth repeating. We were out on motorcycles bar hopping and one idiot got too drunk and dropped his on a curve and cracked a few ribs. The cop that that showed up was being a little aggressive because he was surrounded by 12 bikers. But they acted liked little sheep until we were at the hospital waiting room and then all the talk came out about how the cop wouldn't have been talking that way if he knew how many of them were carrying. They didn't have the balls to say anything back to the cop but they still took pride in the guns they carried, I guess to compensate for their tiny little packages.

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 7:24:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Perhaps I have misunderstood the expression. English is, after all, not my native language, so some nuances are occasionally lost, dated or misunderstood. By "punk kids", I meant that they were frequently up to mischief and getting into trouble. Age-appropriate trouble, that is. The break-in should be understood as comparable to kids daring each other to enter a "haunted" house. We're talking maybe double digit ages here. The same kid that fired the rifle later got an open fracture of the tibia playing around with a forklift, so not the sharpest knife if the drawer, either. Anyway, the time it would have taken to get to a phone, plus the time for the police to get there, would be over half an hour. The place was pretty rural back then. Obviously, a lot can happen in half an hour, and probably would have. In hindsight, it might have been better to let him shoot himself, but seeing as he pointed it at me, I'm inclined to think the likely outcome if I wasn't there would have been that he would've shot his friend or his baby brother. The latter, at least, can't really be faulted for being there, as the older was supposed to be babysitting the younger, and he did learn a lesson that day. Only one of those present had a grasp of the danger involved. That would be me. I haven't had any lasting ill effects from it, so all's well in my book. Lady Luck has a gorgeous smile sometimes. Health, al-Aswad. You can make excuses for them all you want, I wont. You say they have been in trouble before so their parents arent doing their job at all, imo the parents have no control over them. Imo, no excuse to break into anyones house or take anything they find there. You dont know if you had not been there that anyone would have been hurt, you got hurt cuz you challenged the kid and you escalated the situation. jmo He didn't make any excuses for anybody. The tired and overused "excuses" term falsely and fatuously attributed to others is the mantra of born losers. Congratulations.

tj444 -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 7:39:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn He didn't make any excuses for anybody. The tired and overused "excuses" term falsely and fatuously attributed to others is the mantra of born losers. Congratulations. yeah sure, they were just kids.. boys will be boys... uh huh..

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 7:41:08 AM)
The avatar fits your mindset so perfectly. Perhaps partial explanation as to why you think all boys should be assumed as criminals, along with who knows what else.

DomImus -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 7:54:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster Do you really not make any distinction between a killer/rapist and someone sneaking in to steal your i pod and kick your dog? You would really kill someone to protect a laptop or a phone? The law here says that you cannot use deadly force to protect private property. That means if someone is stealing your vehicle from your driveway you cannot open fire on them. Fair enough. Once they forcibly enter your home that rule goes out the window. I have no duty to retreat and the use of deadly force is now warranted. If you break into my home why you are there is irrelevant to me. I don't have time to interview you and analyze your motives nor do I feel compelled to frisk you for weapons before I open fire. Rest assured, I will open fire. The idiocy of your logic (and that of some of the other mental midgets in this thread) is mind boggling. You'll ask "You would really kill someone to protect a laptop or a phone?" yet you won't ask the burglar "Is it really worth risking your life to get that laptop or cell phone?". Astounding. All of the onus is upon the homeowner. None on the criminal. They are the ones who created the situation but they are not held accountable. The only accountability is in the manner I choose to respond. Amazing. Truly amazing. Lastly, to answer your question - yes. I absolutely would kill someone to protect the property in my home. I'm an honest man. I am a law abiding citizen. I work hard every day and the things I own have meaning to me or I would not own them. I have already been robbed once. I am tired of these predators who think that they can just kick down someone's door and take whatever they wish. If someone breaks in my home and I am certain they are unarmed and I am certain they intend me no harm and I am certain they are only there to steal my television I am still going to do everything in my power to see that they leave the premises in a body bag. If you don't like that then don't break into my home. Coddle the criminals all you wish. Just don't count me in,.

joybaby -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 7:59:52 AM)
So, because your fellow drunk drivers acted one way, all gun owners must then be the exact same? I can't speak for your friends, as I've never seen their packages, but what do you suppose I'm compensating for, since I'm female? I'm quite happy with the size of what I've got. It always eventually comes down to this level when the other arguments just aren't effective. FWIW, I've heard the same things said about motorcyclists, that they're compensating for their owners' packages. And nice cars. And vacation homes. It must be loads of fun to be male and have every little thing you do put your masculinity into question.

imperatrixx -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 8:04:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus I am still going to do everything in my power to see that they leave the premises in a body bag. If you don't like that then don't break into my home. Or at the very least, make sure to kill the homeowner before robbing the home.

tj444 -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 8:14:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn The avatar fits your mindset so perfectly. Perhaps partial explanation as to why you think all boys should be assumed as criminals, along with who knows what else. where did i say all boys should be assumed as criminals? those boys had been in trouble before, they broke into a house, they stole a gun.. yeah, they are criminals

joybaby -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 8:16:46 AM)
good luck with that. My dogs will let me know you're trying to get in, no matter how quiet you think you are. My gun is already loaded & ready, so all i have to do is wait for you to appear in the doorway-you won't hear anything. A possible alternative is to kick in the door, of course, but in that confusion there will still be barking dogs and your uncertainty as to exactly where I am at that moment.

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/20/2011 8:21:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 yeah sure, they were just kids.. boys will be boys... uh huh.. quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 Where did i say all boys should be assumed as criminals? Yeah sure, you were just saying ... the same utter nonsense as always. quote: those boys had been in trouble before, they broke into a house, they stole a gun.. yeah, they are criminals Too bad Aswad only dug all that out after the fact. We definitely need better intruder interview and finger-push instantaneous background checks here.

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