RE: Who else carries?

RE: Who else carries? (Full Version)

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Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 10:12:53 AM)
OK. Sorry, your insistent questioning of why my parents didn't do this or that somehow gave the notion that you found their efforts deficient in that regard, even as I never accused you of 'attacking' them. Part and parcel of my upbringing, I suppose.

SuzeCheri -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 10:14:00 AM)
quote: Let me ask you something We did a quick little poll here, and the answers are. quote: has your home ever been broken into and you had to protect yourself? Suze: Middle class suburban area in Ottawa (a low crime city). Two break-ins, one when we were home. My dad ended up in the hospital. Involved in a B&E when I was 14. Cheri: Upper class neighbourhood in Ottawa. Three attempts at breaking in, scared off by alarm. Heather: Respectable working class neighbourhood in Thunder Bay (a small city not known for crime). Garage broken into, but not the house, and a stick-up in a diner she was in when she was 12. Hannah: Yes. Three times, ran away the 1st time, then after she got a gun she scared them off with it the other two times. quote: Have you ever had anyone accost you where you had to pull out your gun and shoot them? Suze: Didn't have a gun to pull, but have been accosted maybe 4 or 5 times. Had to run away, but was robbed once. Cheri: Didn't have a gun to pull, but has been accosted twice. Heather: Didn't have a gun to pull, but has been accosted. Hannah: Yes, several times. Hasn't had to shoot yet, the sight of the gun scares them off. Has been raped more than once, and won't hesitate to shoot in the future. As to where we stand on guns in general? Suze: Undecided, leaning towards pro-gun at this point. No guns I am aware of in the family. Cheri: Anti-gun, but doesn't really give it much thought. Father has a hand gun. Heather: Strongly anti-gun. Most men in the family are hunters. Hannah: Very strongly pro-gun. Many gun owners in the family, mostly hunters. There you have it. I realize your questions were really rhetorical, but I decided to treat them as sincere. Those are our experiences from a country known to be peaceful and relatively crime-free. Now I have a question for you. Why do you have insurance, has your house ever burned down?

Hillwilliam -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 10:21:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: joybaby So, because your fellow drunk drivers acted one way, all gun owners must then be the exact same? I can't speak for your friends, as I've never seen their packages, but what do you suppose I'm compensating for, since I'm female? I'm quite happy with the size of what I've got. It always eventually comes down to this level when the other arguments just aren't effective. FWIW, I've heard the same things said about motorcyclists, that they're compensating for their owners' packages. And nice cars. And vacation homes. It must be loads of fun to be male and have every little thing you do put your masculinity into question. Let me ask you something, has your home ever been broken into and you had to protect yourself? Have you ever had anyone accost you where you had to pull out your gun and shoot them? Somehow I've managed to make it through my whole life without carrying a gun or sleeping with a loaded gun on my nightstand. To answer your question. My home was broken into when I was gone once. A thief was attemting to steal My car out of the driveway once and a yell accompanied by a leveled rifle convinced him to beat feet. It was still expensive to replace the steering column casing and wiring. After hurricane andrew, I faced down looters with the same rifle. Again, they left quickly. I've been acosted and didn't use a gun but not many folks are 3 time natl qualifiers in 2 different combat sports. I'm happy you've gotten thru your life without a gun. Some folks havent been so lucky.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 10:26:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn OK. Sorry, your insistent questioning of why my parents didn't do this or that somehow gave the notion that you found their efforts deficient in that regard, even as I never accused you of 'attacking' them. Part and parcel of my upbringing, I suppose. You gave several examples of what parents either couldn't or shouldn't teach their kids. I asked twice "Why not?", and gave the example of why I disagreed, based on my personal experiences as a parent. Ok, so we have now talked about some of our personal experiences. I'm still interested in why you do not believe those things could be taught to children, by their parents? Specifically, the areas you mentioned: ... specific training on how to avoid bad jobs, bad girlfriends, bad teachers, bad roommates, etc. ...how to deal with bullies or viscious dogs ... or gay men relentlessly pursuing a 13-14 year old ... Not to mention the most on-topic issue of why a minor should not be taught basic gun safety and appropriateness of the use of firearms, even if the family has none in the house? Firm edited for: double negative

FirmhandKY -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 10:29:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joybaby some more examples of reality: www.thearmedcitizen.com Don't confuse them with facts, joy. They've already got their minds made up. Firm

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 10:35:28 AM)
quote: Not to mention the most on-topic issue of why a minor should not be taught basic gun safety and appropriateness of the use of firearms, even if the family has none in the house? Already addressed and cogently responded to in several previous posts in this very thread. My parents did not teach me how to read through threads, but encouraged my good mind sufficiently enough to figure such things out.

mussorgsky -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 10:36:41 AM)
So, an old girlfriend of mine was able to defend herself and three other women from six men armed with knives by firing off her legally-carried 9mm Glock (I prefer my 10mm, .38 Super, and .45 ACP, but she likes the nine). Would it have been better for the thugs to rape her and her friends? Would they be better off dead? Are those seriously better alternatives? For the record, it happened on the streets of Hartford. Like most CT cities, it is known for its violent crimes late at night and early in the morning. And, no, the thugs didn't respond by saying, "she has a gun, let's take it from her!" Instead, they cursed, probably wet themselves, and ran like the dickens.

EternalHoH -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 11:32:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Rule, you don't know me, and that's ok, but I promise you this, things that might haunt most people don't really bother me. I have led an interesting life, and killing a would be rapist that wants to steal from me, or hurt my animals or a loved one wouldn't haunt me in the lightest. I don't always like being this way, but I just am. I lived with a drug dealer, interesting life, that, and guns were second nature. Then a man who's career choices were part of an extended "family" if you follow, so I am not exactly unaware of the risks and outcome of certain situations. I could kill a parasitic threat on my home/family/loved pets and walk over him and make a drink. Don't project how you might feel onto me. Anyone who thinks owning a gun or shooting an intruder is a therapeutic tool to get them through some situation in response to some past trauma or personal tragedy is inching ever so close to being among that subset of the population that should be disqualified from owning on the grounds of mental health issues. Therapy is found elsewhere, not at the handle of a revolver. If you disagree, then be prepared to have your toy taken away. What strikes me among alot of the comments are those who claim to carry because they live in bad neighborhoods with slow/no police response. Maybe their past personal life choices are what has resulted in them lacking the mobility that puts them in bad neighborhoods. Everybody else among the 'capables' ends up moving to a better, less crime-riddled neighborhood. I am not anti-gun, but rather simply amazed at those who do the most promoting of guns are the less capable among us, socio-economically, or are borderline mentally ill. BTW, I would definitely count among the borderline mentally ill anyone who sleeps with a gun under their pillow.

lovmuffin -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 2:15:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EternalHoH quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Rule, you don't know me, and that's ok, but I promise you this, things that might haunt most people don't really bother me. I have led an interesting life, and killing a would be rapist that wants to steal from me, or hurt my animals or a loved one wouldn't haunt me in the lightest. I don't always like being this way, but I just am. I lived with a drug dealer, interesting life, that, and guns were second nature. Then a man who's career choices were part of an extended "family" if you follow, so I am not exactly unaware of the risks and outcome of certain situations. I could kill a parasitic threat on my home/family/loved pets and walk over him and make a drink. Don't project how you might feel onto me. Anyone who thinks owning a gun or shooting an intruder is a therapeutic tool to get them through some situation in response to some past trauma or personal tragedy is inching ever so close to being among that subset of the population that should be disqualified from owning on the grounds of mental health issues. Therapy is found elsewhere, not at the handle of a revolver. If you disagree, then be prepared to have your toy taken away. What strikes me among alot of the comments are those who claim to carry because they live in bad neighborhoods with slow/no police response. Maybe their past personal life choices are what has resulted in them lacking the mobility that puts them in bad neighborhoods. Everybody else among the 'capables' ends up moving to a better, less crime-riddled neighborhood. I am not anti-gun, but rather simply amazed at those who do the most promoting of guns are the less capable among us, socio-economically, or are borderline mentally ill. BTW, I would definitely count among the borderline mentally ill anyone who sleeps with a gun under their pillow. I'm trying to find something in her post that even implies therapy. I think you're making that up as a reason to post your psycho babble gibberish. I would definitely count among the borderline mentally ill anyone who would post gibberish.

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 4:01:29 PM)
The actual gibberish comes from those that think that the 1/3 of households that hold weapons in the US (which, going by my own personal experience is a vastly overstated statistic) should dictate their gibberish to the other 2/3 of households who do not.

Aynne88 -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 4:20:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EternalHoH quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Rule, you don't know me, and that's ok, but I promise you this, things that might haunt most people don't really bother me. I have led an interesting life, and killing a would be rapist that wants to steal from me, or hurt my animals or a loved one wouldn't haunt me in the lightest. I don't always like being this way, but I just am. I lived with a drug dealer, interesting life, that, and guns were second nature. Then a man who's career choices were part of an extended "family" if you follow, so I am not exactly unaware of the risks and outcome of certain situations. I could kill a parasitic threat on my home/family/loved pets and walk over him and make a drink. Don't project how you might feel onto me. Anyone who thinks owning a gun or shooting an intruder is a therapeutic tool to get them through some situation in response to some past trauma or personal tragedy is inching ever so close to being among that subset of the population that should be disqualified from owning on the grounds of mental health issues. Therapy is found elsewhere, not at the handle of a revolver. If you disagree, then be prepared to have your toy taken away. What strikes me among alot of the comments are those who claim to carry because they live in bad neighborhoods with slow/no police response. Maybe their past personal life choices are what has resulted in them lacking the mobility that puts them in bad neighborhoods. Everybody else among the 'capables' ends up moving to a better, less crime-riddled neighborhood. I am not anti-gun, but rather simply amazed at those who do the most promoting of guns are the less capable among us, socio-economically, or are borderline mentally ill. BTW, I would definitely count among the borderline mentally ill anyone who sleeps with a gun under their pillow. Umm..take a look at my profile pictures. I live in the village of Rockport, Maine, a coastal yuppie upscale community of sailboats and wine bars. 3500 square foot house custom built and I don't believe there has ever been a murder in the town ever. So...assumptions and snotty condescension...fail. Want to try again?

lovmuffin -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 4:30:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn The actual gibberish comes from those that think that the 1/3 of households that hold weapons in the US (which, going by my own personal experience is a vastly overstated statistic) should dictate their gibberish to the other 2/3 of households who do not. You lost me. What are we dictating ?

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 4:55:46 PM)
I overstated the case (regarding the dictate, not the stats), you got me there. But it might help to know what rhetorical device means too, while we're at it. Here is what prompted the response, in any event: quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan And as intelligent as refusing to teach your children about firearms? I never conveyed "refusal" either on the part of my parents or myself, nor proposed it in any other regard. quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan Non-gun owners apparently have no responsibility in your estimation. I suppose the bright lining of that cloud is it lets them always point at someone else when a child becomes a statistic. Note the facile foisting of responsibility as should be inherent in the situation from gun owners to non-gun owners in the above contribution. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Not to mention the most on-topic issue of why a minor should not be taught basic gun safety and appropriateness of the use of firearms, even if the family has none in the house? Which above response clearly indicates that this poster did not read sufficiently enough through the thread or possibly was not able to effectively comprehend in any case. Stuff like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiaQ7Re12gQ

lovmuffin -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 5:39:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn I overstated the case (regarding the dictate, not the stats), you got me there. But it might help to know what rhetorical device means too, while we're at it. Here is what prompted the response, in any event: quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan And as intelligent as refusing to teach your children about firearms? I never conveyed "refusal" either on the part of my parents or myself, nor proposed it in any other regard. quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan Non-gun owners apparently have no responsibility in your estimation. I suppose the bright lining of that cloud is it lets them always point at someone else when a child becomes a statistic. Note the facile foisting of responsibility as should be inherent in the situation from gun owners to non-gun owners in the above contribution. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Not to mention the most on-topic issue of why a minor should not be taught basic gun safety and appropriateness of the use of firearms, even if the family has none in the house? Stuff like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiaQ7Re12gQ I never thought about non gun owning parents to teach or send their kids somewhere to learn gun safety. It makes sense to me. Scenario 1: Dick Jane and Sally from a non gun owning family are walking home from school when they spot a gun laying on the grass. Dick being curious picks it up and starts to play with it and shoots Sally. Such a tragedy, and it's all the fault of all these gun owning NRA wacko killers. If only there weren't so many guns in the hands of common citizens, that gun would not have been laying around and this tragedy cold have been averted. Scenario 2: Dick Jane and Sally from a non gun owning family are walking home from their after school NRA gun safety class when they spot a gun laying on the grass. Dick says "I'll stay here to make sure nobody touches it, you two go find an adult". Actually, come to think of it the NRA has been pushing for years that schools teach gun safety and pass out those Eddie Eagle comic books with their illustrations and gun safety messages.

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 5:52:32 PM)
Pretty simple process to teach a child that the only purpose of a weapon is to end someone else's life. No need to go into all the lock & load details to explain that.

lovmuffin -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 5:57:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Pretty simple process to teach a child that the only purpose of a weapon is to end someone else's life. No need to go into all the lock & load details to explain that. It's a simple process to teach them if they spot a gun, not to touch it and tell an adult. As far as teaching them the purpose of a weapon, they seem to get all that on TV.

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 6:08:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin It's a simple process to teach them if they spot a gun, not to touch it and tell an adult. quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Pretty simple process to teach a child that the only purpose of a weapon is to end someone else's life. The latter is more than sufficient information for normal 5-6 year olds, which information unfortunately some 7-10 weapons-owning parents lack. Capable adults by this point in the child's life already have it in the kids' heads to tell adults about most any questionable situation, being as that it is not possible to enumerate every potential dangerous occurrence or event to a 6 year old.

angelikaJ -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 6:09:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Pretty simple process to teach a child that the only purpose of a weapon is to end someone else's life. No need to go into all the lock & load details to explain that. It's a simple process to teach them if they spot a gun, not to touch it and tell an adult. As far as teaching them the purpose of a weapon, they seem to get all that on TV. It should be a simple process, unfortunately it is not a universal one. Kids don't always get that real guns kill. Likewise Edwynn, the problem with teaching your child that guns end someone's life is that the neighbor's kid may not have been taught that. In addition to that there are kids do understand and commit suicide. Gun safety is everyone's responsibility, but not everyone sees it that way and not everyone is educated.

lovmuffin -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 6:21:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin It's a simple process to teach them if they spot a gun, not to touch it and tell an adult. quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Pretty simple process to teach a child that the only purpose of a weapon is to end someone else's life. The latter is more than sufficient information for normal 5-6 year olds, which information unfortunately some 7-10 weapons-owning parents lack. Capable adults by this point in the child's life already have it in the kids' heads to tell adults about most any questionable situation, being as that it is not possible to enumerate every possible dangerous situation to a 6 year old. Thats good then. All we have to do is find those 7 - 10 weapons-owning parents and teach them.

Edwynn -> RE: Who else carries? (8/21/2011 6:37:57 PM)
Find any weapons-owning parents and teach them, no disagreement here. Let's deal with education of the owners first, how's that?

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