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[Poll]

prostitution/integrity poll

prostitute = no integrity

14% (13)

no corelation

85% (76)

Total Votes : 89

(last vote on : 10/8/2012 7:45:41 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 3:55:35 PM

gungadin09

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Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Since I have never felt good about people using others for "any reason" (Of course someone will come in and try and get all philosophical about using people..My use of it is based on ill intent) I find sex for money just as bad as I do friends with benefits. There are always costs to anything you do.

What you just described is YOUR integrity. YOU acted according to YOUR beliefs.

But Hannah's beliefs are different! And she acted according to HERS. How can You accuse her of lack of integrity? What principal of her own did she violate? How did her actions contradict her words? Where does she say that she thinks that sex is about a deep emotional connection, or that mutual respect must be involved, or that she thinks it's not okay to use people, or to be calculating and mercenary? Where does she say that? SHE didn't. YOU did. You are judging her by Your ideas of right and wrong.

Of course You are perfectly entitled to do that, to say, i think she's a bad person, or she did bad things... but the term "lack of integrity" doesn't apply. Integrity is whether a person is acting according to their own beliefs, not whether they are acting according to Yours.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 8/19/2011 3:57:35 PM >

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 241

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 3:57:23 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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Might be a European thing really where food is more just for socializing, and if the guy expects more or puts pressure on you, instead of fobbing him off (which is justified in that case, absolutely) my pride demanded the "fuck you, can pay for my meal and yours" and then go and starve for the rest of the month - well, it was good for the waistline. To be honest if it would happen now, I would possibly just flash a wallet full of credit cards, then pack them away and let him pay.

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(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 242

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 4:08:34 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
That's not what I said in the least.

I said...I'll point you (general) towards the kitchen with an explanation where, that which you want is but you're on your own.

Well, when you get up here, you'll see. Meals get cooked, but if you want a bite in-between, you get up and you get it yourself. You're welcome to anything in the fridge.

quote:

Not that I didn't make some dumb moves...but moving out at that age wasn't one of them. I look back with pride on that. it was rough but it also helped to shape me into the independent, can do person I am today. Not much in life I fear to any great degree. I've often put myself in difficult situations for the challenge and the potential learning I would get from it. Yada.

Nah. I'm going to stick with young and stupid. It sure wasn't smart. All of the stuff that 'could have' happened to Me never did. No rhyme or reason. I just lucked out.

Just a couple of weeks back, I broke My two decades old rule of "I don't camp" and stayed for a whole weekend at a campground. The other half rented a camper for the event, rather than sleep in the cabins. You'd have laughed your ass off.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 243

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 4:42:08 PM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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It's actually a more complex question than it first appears.

My first instinct is to say "no", simply because there's no correlation between integrity and choice of occupation, but then I recalled your deep disgust of the customers and I noted the discussion in here that it's fundamentally a transaction between two pieces of shit.

And so my answer is yes.

I don't give you free pass for your attitude towards men or the customers you serviced. I think the problem here is that you give yourself a free pass, but then make it all their responsibility.

The problem is not the men Hannah, it's what you were doing. Don't give me any bullshit about survival, there are always options. What you were doing demeaned both of you, the whore and the john. Prostitution damages whores and it's not because of the customers. Basically you committed a crime against yourself and they were the means by which you did it. And because you're unable to face up to the reality that you're ultimately responsible for who you've become and what it did to you, you make it all about them.

It never was. It was about what you were doing. Anyone who thinks prostitution is some kind of empowering choice needs their fucking head read. So fundamentally, if you can't trust yourself enough to make the right decisions about something so fundamentally damaging, how the fuck can anyone else trust you? If you don't have enough integrity to take care of yourself, how can I expect you to have integrity in any other sense?

Bullshit it away all you like - there's a part of you that knows there's at least a grain of truth in what I'm saying.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)

Post #: 244

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 4:53:25 PM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I wish someone would explain to me the difference between a woman who gives it up for an hour for $50 and a woman who gives it up for a lifetime for a nice car and clothes and vacations.

I can answer that fucking one. Because one participates in an industry that's rife with coercion, drug addiction and exploitation of children, whereas the other is a fantasy figure. No women marries for life and those who do marry are either incredibly transactional about it and go for divorce as soon as possible or marry for love and so aren't just in the position of giving up their body. Some of them even enjoy marriage/couple-hood.

Part of the problem here is the view of sex as a commodity that's given/transacted/exchanged by women for something else. That transactional view is what's fucked in the head.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 245

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:13:32 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
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Will someone please find me ANY dictionary that defines "integrity" as one of the following:

1. not being coldly calculating or mercenary
2. having respect for your customers
3. not doing something self damaging
4. self awareness
5. not demeaning yourself
6. excercising good judgement
7. taking care of yourself
8. not having a poor opinion of men
9. having high self esteem

Everything You've just said is true, and yet none of it has anything to do with integrity. ETA: Integrity means doing what you know is wrong. This transactional view of sex as a commodity, that's so fucked in the head, is exactly why the term integrity doesn't apply here. In order to compromise their integrity, the person has to know that what they're doing is wrong. Not everyone believes that prostitution is morally wrong. Not everyone believes that the things on Your list are morally wrong.

pam

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 8/19/2011 5:26:00 PM >

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 246

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:19:00 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

Of course You are perfectly entitled to do that, to say, i think she's a bad person, or she did bad things... but the term "lack of integrity" doesn't apply. Integrity is whether a person is acting according to their own beliefs, not whether they are acting according to Yours.

I figured you were fishing.

Didn't you point out earlier that she does it too? Damn right I "judged" her..she judges others. If she doesn't like being done that way maybe she should think about others feelings more often. Otherwise, tough tit.

Ya know you seem to be flip flopping..one minute you let her know that she was facing a mirror and the next you try and hold one up to me when if anything we were both wrong about what started this delightful funbag parade.

What she described in the hooker thread was pretty damn shitty so how about we stop coddling her and pretending it wasn't. She's a big girl now and so are you.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
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(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 247

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:22:04 PM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

What she described in the hooker thread was pretty damn shitty so how about we stop coddling her and pretending it wasn't. She's a big girl now and so are you

But then so were the things that happened to her.

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(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 248

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:22:47 PM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
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I, for one, am a little annoyed I got suckered into this shit storm. Since this is obviously all about Hannah and some brawl she is having with Icarys, why wasn't the question, "Does Hannah lack integrity because she was a prostitute?" My answer would have still been "no", but it would have been a more honest question.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 8/19/2011 5:25:49 PM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 249

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:24:32 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

Well, when you get up here, you'll see. Meals get cooked, but if you want a bite in-between, you get up and you get it yourself. You're welcome to anything in the fridge.

Well I don't want anyone serving me. I can get my own plate.

That may be happening sooner than later if I don't piss this buyer off. :)

quote:

Nah. I'm going to stick with young and stupid. It sure wasn't smart. All of the stuff that 'could have' happened to Me never did. No rhyme or reason. I just lucked out.

If that's how you look at your early years, then that's fine for you.

Mine were different.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 250

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:27:29 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

Everything You've just said is true, and yet none of it has anything to do with integrity.

That's kind of what I meant earlier when I stated that people don't look at the whole of a situation.

Sure they do. Maybe not directly but integrity plays a part of those. Use that noggin.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 251

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:29:52 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Part of the problem here is the view of sex as a commodity that's given/transacted/exchanged by women for something else. That transactional view is what's fucked in the head.

So is the idea of you being dominant or having ever had sex, but you still post.... I guess it makes sense in your own world or universe, and maybe dominant there is make believe and doesn't require a counter part. As several people have pointed out, if you ever would have experienced a girl kneeling at your feet, you wouldn't post such presumptuous rubbish, if you actually had a girl kneeling at your feet, your wouldn't try to pretend your brain farts are based on reality... Of course you can say the same thing about me, so how about it? We both have CM signs and digital pics and the faces can be blanked out. Are you game?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 252

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:31:00 PM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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Integrity does not simply mean "honesty". Integrity refers to the quality of being integral. Whole. Complete. Consistent. Integrity means there's no inherent conflict with your beliefs and your actions. That your value system is reinforced by your behaviour.

Hannah's regularly railed against her customers for their behaviour. Their attitude towards their wives, their attitude towards her, their attitude towards prostitution itself. This would tend to imply that she has a belief system which espouses certain ideas of how people should treat each other.

Both then and now, that value system is in conflict with her actions. She damaged and demeaned herself and the customers. Or rather, they participated in damaging themselves and each other. And now, she has a gender bias based upon her experiences which she blames them for. Many men are too stupid to understand what going to a hooker does to their sense of self-worth. She's too stubborn to admit she was complicit in her own self-harm. In a sense, both are culpable and both are victims. And I'd question the integrity of each one of them.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 253

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:33:39 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

One of the things I look for in friends is someone who will tell me the truth. I may not like what they have to say but at least they were honest. Some of you no doubt think you're doing that and that you're sticking up for her because it was all those nasty men's fault. Those horrible horrible guys that made her do that work again and again.

I think though that you're completely wrong and if she was okay with it then it wouldn't have affected her the way it did. Nor would what anyone said. That's not the case though. It's plain as day.

(Just so you know...I know what happens next)

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 254

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:34:08 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Part of the problem here is the view of sex as a commodity that's given/transacted/exchanged by women for something else. That transactional view is what's fucked in the head.

Its a view that both the prostitutes and gold diggers have as well as the men that go into any type of transaction expecting or even hoping for sex, which to me even includes buying a girl dinner.. even tho some men try to paint it as not an expectation.. if the guy didnt expect sex he wouldnt be taking her out for dinner or whatever.. especially those guys that stop taking her to dinner after 3 dates and no sex.. that just proves he was just after her pussy, not her delightful company..

Perhaps men and society that have trained some women to expect dinner, a nice house, vacations, $$, etc as payment for sex.. where else does it come from otherwise?

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 255

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:38:53 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

Perhaps men and society that have trained some women to expect dinner, a nice house, vacations, $$, etc as payment for sex.. where else does it come from otherwise?

So we've brainwashed you so we could get the snatch now is it. :) Ya know everytime I see that avatar and hear you talk about wanting to be liked for you and not just your pussy I can't help but wonder what you're thinking. I'm in marketing so...if you have that mouse twitching it's nose, it's bound to attract cats, ya know.

You have to take responsibility at some point for the way you think.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 256

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:47:30 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Integrity does not simply mean "honesty". Integrity refers to the quality of being integral. Whole. Complete. Consistent. Integrity means there's no inherent conflict with your beliefs and your actions. That your value system is reinforced by your behaviour.

Hannah's regularly railed against her customers for their behaviour. Their attitude towards their wives, their attitude towards her, their attitude towards prostitution itself. This would tend to imply that she has a belief system which espouses certain ideas of how people should treat each other.

Both then and now, that value system is in conflict with her actions. She damaged and demeaned herself and the customers. Or rather, they participated in damaging themselves and each other. And now, she has a gender bias based upon her experiences which she blames them for. Many men are too stupid to understand what going to a hooker does to their sense of self-worth. She's too stubborn to admit she was complicit in her own self-harm. In a sense, both are culpable and both are victims. And I'd question the integrity of each one of them.

You base this opinion on what? Your virginity? See my offer above, still stands. You up for it? You know you tell us all about domination and how it should be, can you back it up? In case you can't afford the webcam, I paypal the money, but I would like to really see some evidence of your claims.

Because I am not the only one who questions that you ever had a sub or really know what you are talking about, so here is your big chance to show us all that you are not this sad and lonely weirdo who makes up strange and stlightly demented theories.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 257

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:50:42 PM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
So is the idea of you being dominant or having ever had sex, but you still post.... I guess it makes sense in your own world or universe, and maybe dominant there is make believe and doesn't require a counter part. As several people have pointed out, if you ever would have experienced a girl kneeling at your feet, you wouldn't post such presumptuous rubbish, if you actually had a girl kneeling at your feet, your wouldn't try to pretend your brain farts are based on reality... Of course you can say the same thing about me, so how about it? We both have CM signs and digital pics and the faces can be blanked out. Are you game?

Nobody's pointed out any such thing from what I've seen and any "domme" who suggested such a thing would find me incredibly amused. Believe absolutely whatever you wish about me. It does not impinge on my reality at all. Although it does tend to confirm my model about women and "dommes" in particular.

As for pictures of women. Don't be stupid. I don't collect such things because it's simply not in my nature to do so. I don't require trophies for validation, although I'm sure that you do. Each interaction is valued for what it is and the time it endures for. Any pictures a woman has sent me is something for me alone, not a stick to be used in an internet argument.

This is what I mean. You alleged "dommes" have absolutely no clue. You constantly behave in ways which betray your own weakness. I find you amusing, but under no circumstances do I take you seriously. With one or two exceptions, you simply don't behave in a way which gives me any reason to respect you.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 258

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:52:18 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Didn't you point out earlier that she does it too?

i did point out that she does it. That doesn't mean You don't do it, too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Damn right I "judged" her..she judges others. If she doesn't like being done that way maybe she should think about others feelings more often. Otherwise, tough tit.

i have no qualms about You judging her. i'm sure You could name quite a few of her flaws. It's just that i don't think "lack of integrity" is one of them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Ya know you seem to be flip flopping..one minute you let her know that she was facing a mirror and the next you try and hold one up to me when if anything we were both wrong about what started this delightful funbag parade.

Likewise, You seem to be flip flopping. One minute You seem say that Hannah lacks integrity, or at least has in the past, and therefore what she says shouldn't be given any weight. The next minute You seem to say that, no, you weren't criticising her integrity, only the fact that she judges others too harshly. i think she is too harsh. i do not think she lacks integrity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
What she described in the hooker thread was pretty damn shitty so how about we stop coddling her and pretending it wasn't.

It WAS shitty. It was judgemental. It was hateful. It was unfair. It was bigoted. The only thing it WASN'T was dishonest, or lacking integrity. The ONLY problem i have with Your argument is that You're using THAT word to describe her. You want to call her a shitty, judgemental, hateful, unfair, bigoted, manhating bitch? Be my guest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
She's a big girl now and so are you.

Thanks, i sure hope so. i do NOT approve of coddling Hannah. What i DO approve of is being fair.

pam

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 259

RE: prostitution/integrity poll - 8/19/2011 5:54:17 PM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
You base this opinion on what? Your virginity? See my offer above, still stands. You up for it? You know you tell us all about domination and how it should be, can you back it up? In case you can't afford the webcam, I paypal the money, but I would like to really see some evidence of your claims.

Because I am not the only one who questions that you ever had a sub or really know what you are talking about, so here is your big chance to show us all that you are not this sad and lonely weirdo who makes up strange and stlightly demented theories.

Y'know, I'm sensing some desperation on your part. Can you foresee a circumstance under which any dominant man would feel he'd be required to prove anything to you? Playing reputation dynamics in this fashion simply doesn't work. I don't care what you or anyone else thinks, so you're just have to go on muttering amongst yourselves like the children you are and having to put up with someone who sees right through you.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 260

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