Which is it?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Which is it?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Which is it?

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Which is it? - 8/19/2011 7:56:25 AM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline

Morning...

First, let me apologize if this is in the archives, I went through 7 pages and couldn't find a post that addressed this question.

Recently, I was told that BDSM stands for Bondage Dominance Submission Masochism, but it also includes Discipline and Sadomasochism.   When we started looking into BDSM (at least 10 years ago), the person(s) we were talking with said it was Bondage Discipline Sadomasochism and Masochism, no D/s, (Dominance/submission).   So, I have been looking for a source that can tell me what these four letters actually mean! My brain won't wrap around the D,S having dual meaning...but if that is the case, then I will need to work on my acceptance. :)

The internet is not helping, as I can find both, nothing indicating that one is more correct then the other.   What it looks like to me, so far....is that if we go to the Marquee De Sade's days, it would indeed be as I was told long ago, leaving out the the D/s, and leaning towards the Discipline/Sado/Maso. The D/s, could have been added later? If so, why is it not BDDSSM? That would cover all bases!

I am asking because I like to be correct when I say something...and if Im wrong, I need to re think some things and offer a few apologies.

_____________________________

Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

Post #: 1

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 8:03:20 AM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline

well, like most things, this has probably changed over time.
when i was first getting into it 4 years ago, it was Bondage, Discipline/Domination, Sadism/Submission, Masochism. everything i read broke it down that way. i looked at sites with info from 2001, i talked to people who'd been into it for decades, etc etc, and that's the way it was explained to me.
so sure, maybe it was explained one way 10 years ago, but it's very likely that that's changed today. adhering to a 10 year old definition isn't always good. i mean, a 10 year old text book in a classroom is generally seen as a bad thing, right? you can't really talk about 10 year old scientific understanding of how something works and apply it to a modern expanded/updated understanding, except to show how it may have changed.

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 2

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 8:06:34 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3765428/mpage_1/tm.htm

It's a fairly long thread, but eventually the OP's topic is discussed.

_____________________________

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 3

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 8:17:36 AM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline

Thank you! Off to read...:)

_____________________________

Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 4

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 8:32:58 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

I think that's one reason some of us refer to WIITWD (What it is that we do)

It's easier to type than Dominance and submission and sadism and masochism and bondage and discipline and daddydoms and babygirls and furries and goreans and littles and..............

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 5

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 8:41:15 AM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline

Half way through the thread....wow. Head is spinning. Could be correct, could be not.... This appears to be one of those issues that can be open to interpretation. I will need more coffee. I do better on black and white issues, with hard,cold facts...may have to table this for a bit while researching more.

_____________________________

Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 6

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 8:59:43 AM

stoni23

Posts: 178
Joined: 1/14/2010
Status: offline

I'd say leave it open to interpretation. Regardless of what it actually stands for, it won't change your relationship : )

_____________________________

Aren't we all just a little bit fake and a lot real?

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 7

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 12:32:50 PM

coookie

Posts: 541
Joined: 10/25/2010
Status: offline

I agree with stoni and when it comes up just be like yep it could be either way whichever floats your boat.

(in reply to stoni23)

Post #: 8

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 12:37:05 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

I just figure........I prefer to be in a power exchange relationship with a woman in which I can also freely express some of my sadistic glee.........type of statement! Although the sadistic glee is not required. Then top it off with........oh yeah, I am also polyamorous.....just to really fuck with their heads.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to coookie)

Post #: 9

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 1:26:55 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I never even bother using bdsm to cover what I do and enjoy. Instead I just tell people with descriptions of what I like to do since no one and I mean no one can agree on what the acronyms and words mean within "bdsm". So instead I just say I like a relationship with a dominant personality man whether he uses the terms or even knows what they are or has ever even heard of them because really..none of that matters to me as long as he has a dominant personality. I think that pretty much covers it for me instead.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 10

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 2:16:26 PM

DomImus

Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

I always thought it was Bondage Domination Sadism Masochism.

_____________________________

"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." Sidney J. harris

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 11

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 2:30:17 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Morning...

First, let me apologize if this is in the archives, I went through 7 pages and couldn't find a post that addressed this question.

Recently, I was told that BDSM stands for Bondage Dominance Submission Masochism, but it also includes Discipline and Sadomasochism.   When we started looking into BDSM (at least 10 years ago), the person(s) we were talking with said it was Bondage Discipline Sadomasochism and Masochism, no D/s, (Dominance/submission).   So, I have been looking for a source that can tell me what these four letters actually mean! My brain won't wrap around the D,S having dual meaning...but if that is the case, then I will need to work on my acceptance. :)

The internet is not helping, as I can find both, nothing indicating that one is more correct then the other.   What it looks like to me, so far....is that if we go to the Marquee De Sade's days, it would indeed be as I was told long ago, leaving out the the D/s, and leaning towards the Discipline/Sado/Maso. The D/s, could have been added later? If so, why is it not BDDSSM? That would cover all bases!

I am asking because I like to be correct when I say something...and if Im wrong, I need to re think some things and offer a few apologies.

Like others, I simply used an interpretation that best suits me. For a long time I just said b&d for bondage & discipline. Now I tend to say D&s when posting on forums, to highlight a relationship dynamic of Domination & submission.

I understand your perfectionist ideal of wanting to get it right or "be correct" etc as I also tend to default to a philosophy that if it doesn't matter which way something is done then I'll choose the right way or the accurate way over the "anything will do" way. Not always appreciated by my subs when I start unpicking the ropes because a particular bondage piece (usually breast bondage) wasn't visually working the way I wanted....

But I digress.... At the end of the day, most people will have their own definition so for you to "be correct", pick the one that best suits *you* and your ideals and stick with it. Anyone into bdsm will understand what you mean when you say bdsm. For everyone not into it, well I don't educate the ignorant on my personal lifestyle choices....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 12

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 3:53:45 PM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline

Thank you for all the replies.

For years I went with Bondage/Discipline/Sadomasochist/Masochistic, so, I could state we didn't partake in BDSM activities and say it with a feeling of correctness. Please, there is nothing wrong with anyone who enjoys these things, I have dear friends who do, but it did nothing for me. Then, lately, I was reading that it also referred to Dominance and Submission, which describes our nature of relating to perfection, this confused me. I had to find out what the acronym stood for, or change my wording. After reading that very long thread, (oy, it gave me a headache!), I decided to stick with the original concept. Until such time as the acronym is changed to BDDSSM. This is just for my own view, I know not everyone will agree, but I feel it is black and white where grammar is concerned. What can I say, I need black and white, never did do well with gray areas :)

Thanks again.

_____________________________

Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 13

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 4:00:20 PM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline

Lisa, inasmuch as language is a means to communicate, it's important to understand that words are a form of information compression in which ideas are exchanged through reference to a shared dictionary (in the information theory sense) of terms. Those terms are however loaded into each one of us by culture. Consequently those people who share culture are able to communicate with the greatest ease - including idiomatic forms and references to popular (shared) culture.

Utilisation of a given word form arises through the constant evolution of language. For instance, one trend I've noticed is for verbs to become nouns. EG: "That's a big ask" meaning that someone is asking a lot. So dictionaries in a classic sense are a catalogue of words based upon a scholarly evaluation of their common use.

What that implies, is that words or terms are not arbitrarily decided by committee. There is no final authority on words, terms and so on. Dictionaries merely take snapshots of the cultural literary zeitgeist, as it were. What this means is that effectively BDSM means whatever the broad consensus would imply it means - however there doesn't appear to be a broad consensus, especially given an acronym which has so many options for each of the letters.

(Incidentally to me, it always implied Bondage & Domination, Sadism and Masochism. If you think about popular references, people usually describe someone as "into Bondage". Or at least that's what I've encountered most often. Domination implies submission and in keeping with the theme, there's no way submission gets a whole letter to itself. Uppity goddamn word.)

Point is, there is no final authority on this. There is only the possibility of consensus, of which there is none. So the most you can say is that BDSM encompasses a range of activities including Bondage, Domination, Submission, Sadism and Masochism. Although where the adult-diaper people fit into that definition is anyone's guess.

You could try and list it as "divergent sexuality" but then the play-only crowd would get up in arms and the necros and paedos would think they'd found a new home. Incidentally, this is part of the problem with the "And it harm none, do as thou wilt" kind of philosophy. Necros aren't hurting anyone, but do you really want them walking amongst us?

Ultimately, the definition doesn't matter. It's kind of like pornography - you might not be able to define it, but you know it when you see it. And that's pretty much all that really matters. It's a vague term with a vague consensus, vague boundaries and vague proponents of vague activities. When someone refers to it, they're pretty much just saying "That kind of stuff".

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 14

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 8:17:07 PM

AcademyForSlaves

Posts: 712
Joined: 2/24/2006
Status: offline

Hello,

When I first came on the scene I always heard and read it as "Bondage, Discipline, ..." etc so yes "discipline" had been in the term. However, many things change over the years as people re-phrase things in their own way or if someone makes a spelling error and it sticks and remains that way. Sometimes you have to look at things in your own way and not let other viewpoints ruin it for you. We all learn from each other, so varied opinions and viewpoints are a good thing, but in the end stick with what makes you feel most comfortable.

Hope this helps.

_____________________________

Academy Mistresses
http://www.academyforslaves.com/home.html

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 15

RE: Which is it? - 8/19/2011 11:24:39 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline

As I was introduced to the term it was described as four letters that stand for six words.

BD: Bondage And Discipline.
DS: Dominance and Submission
SM: Sadism and Masochism.

So basically it's even shorter than BDDSSM.

All three parts are complimentary: You can't have Dominance without submission. You can't have Sadism without Masochism.

Actually you can have bondage without discipline, but not many really want that.

Confused yet? Well, that's kind of normal. BDSM contains a plethora of dichotomies. Ask any self-described slave if they feel freer when tied up and obeying orders. To a large extent, BDSM requires you to face these dichotomies head on. I'm and American and a Jew and yet I want to own a pretty slave girl; realizing that gave me serious pause. Then I just said, "Fuck it."

(in reply to AcademyForSlaves)

Post #: 16

RE: Which is it? - 8/20/2011 12:33:42 AM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

I just refer to it as a "Power Dynamic", as that seems most appropriate. (shrugs)

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 17

RE: Which is it? - 8/20/2011 1:47:13 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

She didn't ask about BDDSSM.

She asked about BDSM.

Bondage

Discipline

Sadism

Masochism

The fact that the Dom/sub folks felt left out of the acronym and got butt hurt doesn't change what it really stands for.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 18

RE: Which is it? - 8/20/2011 2:36:50 AM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline

i dunno why everything has to be trivialized into someone being "butthurt;" maybe they thought there was a legitimate reason to add a couple more words to an acronym.
i don't get why that's such a big deal. =p

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 19

RE: Which is it? - 8/20/2011 3:41:34 AM

MalcolmNathaniel

Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

She didn't ask about BDDSSM.

She asked about BDSM.

Bondage

Discipline

Sadism

Masochism

The fact that the Dom/sub folks felt left out of the acronym and got butt hurt doesn't change what it really stands for.

Yeah, it was probably the Doms that forced it in there and the subs just let it go.

Or maybe I read it in "Different Loving," "Screw the Roses Send Me the Thorns," or "S&M 101" I can't remember. Maybe it was the people who developed the Emblem Project and seemed to think that the tripartite vision of BDSM was important. I really can't remember: it was well over a decade ago that I learned that definition.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> Which is it?

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.094